To win the division...?

cajunjacket said:
Damn. What kind of BS is that?? :laugher::laugher::laugher:

5 spots??

ACC is one of the most geeked up leagues out there. Regardless, we are in control of our destiny once again, thanks to VT. If we win the rest of our games, we WILL go to the ACC championship. That's a great feeling.
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Huh? Are you just assuming that Miami will lose again?
 
cajunjacket said:
Damn. What kind of BS is that?? :laugher::laugher::laugher:

5 spots??

ACC is one of the most geeked up leagues out there. Regardless, we are in control of our destiny once again, thanks to VT. If we win the rest of our games, we WILL go to the ACC championship. That's a great feeling.
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No, cause if Miami wins all of its remaining games and a we win out, we go to the overall record tiebreaker, VPI drops out and I think the tiebreaker resets and we lose the head to head. Or it goes to the BCS-o-meter.
 
GTLiebs said:
No, cause if Miami wins all of its remaining games and a we win out, we go to the overall record tiebreaker, VPI drops out and I think the tiebreaker resets and we lose the head to head. Or it goes to the BCS-o-meter.
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Well if VT's only ACC loss is to us, then it is a three way tie. I think all the intermediate tie-breakers between head-to-head and BCS rank will be even as well (all permutations of divisional/non-divisional records).

I think this might give best credence to cheering for OU this weekend as it can only help tarnish UM's BCS caliber. Then we have a strong finish to the season and I would expect VT to be up there as well. If VT and GT are the highest BCS ranked teams at the end of the season, then we'd win the tie breaker, regardless of rank delta.

Correction: we'd need to be within 5 spots if ranked lower than VT.

In reality, the best thing to hope for is a 2-way tie between us and VT. Then they can get a taste of what it's like.
 
If the three of us win out, then I think that MIA will go to the ACCCG, unless we were to leapfrog MIA with a win over VPI. Hopefully OU implodes if MIA wins against them. That will place more focus on us, esp if Georgie's only other loss is to FLA. Too many wheels within wheels to reasonably determine at this time though.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be):

If GT beats VT and if VT otherwise wins out and Miami wins out, the records would be:

GT: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
UM: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
VT: 10-2 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)

Va Tech would get eliminated by the overall record prong (Rule #4 of the 3-way tiebreaker) and then it would be a simple two-way tiebreaker between the Canes and us; thus Miami would win since they beat us head-to-head. BCS rankings in this scenario would not come into play, as they are the last resort of the 3-way tiebreaker before drawing names out of a hat. (No really, "chosen by a draw" is the last resort; #8 in the official ACC 3-way tiebreaker rules.)

Alter the above by giving Miami an OOC loss, and we would win outright on the overall record prong.

Go Sooners?

(Here's the link to the tiebreaker rules: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/fbtiebreaker.html)
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be):

If GT beats VT and if VT otherwise wins out and Miami wins out, the records would be:

GT: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
UM: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
VT: 10-2 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)

Va Tech would get eliminated by the overall record prong (Rule #4 of the 3-way tiebreaker) and then it would be a simple two-way tiebreaker between the Canes and us; thus Miami would win since they beat us head-to-head. BCS rankings in this scenario would not come into play, as they are the last resort of the 3-way tiebreaker before drawing names out of a hat. (No really, "chosen by a draw" is the last resort; #8 in the official ACC 3-way tiebreaker rules.)

Alter the above by giving Miami an OOC loss, and we would win outright on the overall record prong.

Go Sooners?

(Here's the link to the tiebreaker rules: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/fbtiebreaker.html)
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So we are even more "very-much-aliver" than I thought.:laugher:
 
Ish said:
OOC losses don't change anything.
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This is what I can't figure out. Some tell me they do and some tell me they don't. It comes down to the meaning of 3-way-tie rulebreaker rule #4, which says, "Overall record for non-divisional teams." What does this mean? Someone please tell me. I must be an idiot or having a major brain malfunction, because this language is not clear to me.

BTW, OOC records could indirectly influence the tiebreaker insofar as OOC games could influence one's BCS ranking.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
This is what I can't figure out. Some tell me they do and some tell me they don't. It comes down to the meaning of 3-way-tie rulebreaker rule #4, which says, "Overall record for non-divisional teams." What does this mean? Someone please tell me. I must be an idiot or having a major brain malfunction, because this language is not clear to me.

BTW, OOC records could indirectly influence the tiebreaker insofar as OOC games could influence one's BCS ranking.
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Last year we were 2-3 in divisional games losing to UVA, VPI, and UNC. But we were 3-0 in non-divisional record beating FSU, Clemson, and BC.

They weigh more heavily on divisional record in ACC play than in non-divisional record in ACC play.
 
unforgiven108 said:
Last year we were 2-3 in divisional games losing to UVA, VPI, and UNC. But we were 3-0 in non-divisional record beating FSU, Clemson, and BC.

They weigh more heavily on divisional record in ACC play than in non-divisional record in ACC play.
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That's true, but all of that is expressed by Rule #2, which says, "Records of the tied teams within the division." So what does Rule #4 mean????
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
That's true, but all of that is expressed by Rule #2, which says, "Records of the tied teams within the division." So what does Rule #4 mean????
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No you are misunderstanding. Records within the division only counts games in Coastal division.

So we were 2-3.

Rule 4 says out-of-division which means against the atlantic.

We were 3-0.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I might be):

If GT beats VT and if VT otherwise wins out and Miami wins out, the records would be:

GT: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
UM: 11-1 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)
VT: 10-2 (7-1 ACC, 4-1 Div.)

Va Tech would get eliminated by the overall record prong (Rule #4 of the 3-way tiebreaker) and then it would be a simple two-way tiebreaker between the Canes and us; thus Miami would win since they beat us head-to-head. BCS rankings in this scenario would not come into play, as they are the last resort of the 3-way tiebreaker before drawing names out of a hat. (No really, "chosen by a draw" is the last resort; #8 in the official ACC 3-way tiebreaker rules.)

Alter the above by giving Miami an OOC loss, and we would win outright on the overall record prong.

Go Sooners?

(Here's the link to the tiebreaker rules: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/fbtiebreaker.html)
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I had rather MIA lose in conference than OOC. Though South Florida could put a stinger on them like they did FSU. Honestly, the only game that is totally a gimmie that they have left is FAMU. They could come out flat in any of the rest of them. Only other 2 games that they should win outright are Duke and UVA. The rest of them can win against Miami. I honestly do not think that Miami is that great a team, Tech just lost momentum early and let that affect their play. If we win ours, we will not need to worry about the others.
 
unforgiven108 said:
No you are misunderstanding. Records within the division only counts games in Coastal division.

So we were 2-3.

Rule 4 says out-of-division which means against the atlantic.

We were 3-0.
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But if three teams are tied, with the same conference record, the analysis of who has the better record in the Coastal is simultaneously an analysis of who has the best record against the Atlantic. Your interpretation of Rule #4 makes no sense to me because if three teams are tied, this means they have identical overall conference records, and If they have identical overall conference records, the one with a better record in the Coastal (Rule #2) would necessarily have a worse record against the Atlantic. Thus, there is no need for Rule #4 as you interpret it. In other words, if teams are all tied as to Rule #2, they are necessarily tied as to Rule #4, and Rule #4 (as you interpret it) would NEVER break the tie; it would simply restate Rule #2 in reverse . This leads me to believe that your interpretation cannot be right and the language in #4 must mean something else.

Either that, or I'm missing something.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
But if three teams are tied, with the same conference record, the analysis of who has the better record in the Coastal is simultaneously an analysis of who has the best record against the Atlantic. Your interpretation of Rule #4 makes no sense to me because if three teams are tied, this means they have identical overall conference records, and If they have identical overall conference records, the one with a better record in the Coastal (Rule #2) would necessarily have a worse record against the Atlantic. Thus, there is no need for Rule #4 as you interpret it. In other words, if teams are all tied as to Rule #2, they are necessarily tied as to Rule #4. This leads me to believe that your interpretation cannot be right and the language in #4 must mean something else.

Either that, or I'm missing something.
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You may be right, I haven't looked too much into it, but maybe they had it in place in case of Ties. Not sure if Ties still happen...but whatevs.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
Go Sooners?
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No, we want Miami to beat OU. Because if they do, they will be on a 3-0 run heading into the Clemson game. That will spell certain doom for a young team. Then Miami can have 2 conference loses, which will help us more than anything else.
 
Here's some food for thought. If we win the rest of the games, we probably go to the ACC-CG. If we can't go to the ACC-CG after winning the rest of our games, it would still be a good thing because more than likely Miami would be going to the National Championship or Orange Bowl and we would be going to a major BCS bowl.

So, as CPJ has been saying all along, our future rests in our hands. Win the rest of them, we will be in a BCS bowl unless if there are tons of undefeated teams at the end of this year.
 
WracerX said:
No, we want Miami to beat OU. Because if they do, they will be on a 3-0 run heading into the Clemson game. That will spell certain doom for a young team. Then Miami can have 2 conference loses, which will help us more than anything else.
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I also do not think that OU is that great a team this year, much worse than last year. I am hoping that they lose to MIA and put one to Texas this year. This is in the line of thought that MIA is not strong enough to win the remainder of their games.
 
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