Please tell me its not true...

Re: How many bad QB\'s are there on our team?

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...How bout Rix and Sexton, Walker at FSU ...Are you going to say Bowden cant develop QB's because RIX and Sexton were failures?

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Bowden has little or nothing to do with QB development at FSU. As much as I hate to say it, FSU's QB troubles have coincided precisely with Richt's departure, and meanwhile UGA has their best QB since Fran Tarkenton. That is beginning to look like less than a coincidence.
 
No, my opinion is that if our offensive production doesn't improve next year the program is in danger of backing up. I personally couldn't care less who our asst coaches are, I just want to see results. Neither of us knows whether the problem is coaching or not...maybe the coaches are really getting through to the RS kids and that's who we'll see on the field next year.

Far as I'm concerned Chan can do whatever he thinks is right, he just better put more points on the board next season.
 
True to some degree...But the son

does as Offensive Coordinator and I feel Papa has input also..Through the years Bowden has had magic with QB's it hasn't been just his Assistants...
 
Re: No I dont change my opinion like a sheet in

BW,

I am glad you posted your specific opinions because now I know without a doubt that you are completely ignorant as to the situation on offense.

Reggie Ball "does not have the physical tools"?

Bennett and Manley are our best 2 QBs?

Those are just insane ideas. Based on these opinions, I doubt that you have you ever seen Bennett or Manley play. Bennett will likely be a fine QB someday, but he is not some magic bullet that will cure all offensive ills. Bennett was not as good this fall as Reggie was his freshman year, this fall he was not as good as Reggie, and right now he is not as good Reggie. Bilbo is probably our second best QB today. Manley will likely be a career backup QB. As far as "physical tools" go, Reggie is superior to Bennett and Manley in almost every category except height and Bennett has a marginally stronger arm. I just want to repeat that I think Bennett has a very bright future and there are a lot of good things to say about him, but it is highly unlikely that he will be ready to be the starter next year.

How can you reconcile your "freshman QB" excuses from a year ago with expectations that RS-Fr Bennett will be able to lead us to better results next year?

As far as the OL goes, the lightest OL (Denver and Atlanta tied) in the NFL averages 295 lbs per player. They both use the same OL scheme and it is not the one we use. The average NFL O-Linemen is roughly 310-315 lbs. The style of offense that Gailey clearly wants to play calls for larger OL, but for some reason he does not recruit OL that fit this description.

I can not believe that we are not going to make any changes to our offensive staff. I fear that next year will just be a death march with more of the same failed offensive system holding back a superior defensive unit.
 
Interesting observations by all...

...I have to agree with the idea that RB doesn't have the physical tools needed for the type of offense that we are trying to run, but he was the best thing we could trot out at the time. RB is a thrower as opposed to a passer. (I'll use a baseball analogy here - Rafael Furcal can throw a baseball but he'll never be a pitcher) It was obvious to me that he could not throw the out pattern. Too many times this year that the ball bounced out to receivers or was thrown behind the receiver. His receivers made him look a lot better than he actually was and by the latter part of our season, every team knew who the go to guy was. I think that our offensive philosophy is based on a strong running game, that will only get better if our QB can make the throws needed to keep the opposing defenses off balance. CCG wants to open the offense up, but can't because of the QB play. We've got the big play receiver and the horse at running back. The maligned line did faily well as evidenced by the big games that PJ had rushing. The glaring weakness is at the QB position. It doesn't matter who the QB is, as long as he has the ability to make plays on a consistent basis.
 
Re: No I dont change my opinion like a sheet in

JTS, so how do you know all that? You've seen Bennett and Manley play lately? Also, when you say physical tools do you include accuracy in that bucket? Because while I agree that in terms of physical ability Reggie is likely superior to either freshman. But he can't hit a wall from 6 feet sometimes. Part of the reason for some of CJs great catches this year is Reggie is so scatter armed that he simply gets it to the area. He's forever putting the ball on the wrong side or high or low or whatever.

Bottom line on our offense is that if we get better QB play we will be much more successful next year. If we don't we will continue to struggle. If we improve we should have a pretty decent year. If we don't we will likely not do any better than 6 wins and could very well do worse. If that happens Gailey will be gone IMO.
 
Re: How many bad QB\'s are there on our team?

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Suggs was a transfer from UT and couldnt cut it up there...I didnt see any teams falling over each other to get Bilbo to transfer after he failed AND Ball was not recruited by anyone to be QB except for us...If any failure at all, it would be That this coaching staff OVERESTIMATED Pat Carter...They thought he might be our QB of the future...Interesting though, Every other school (just like on Ball) did NOT recruit him as a QB...I give Gailey and the coaching staff credit as they quickly in his 3rd class here went out and got 2 Pure Drop back QB"s...Scouting a HS QB is a VERY tricky proposition and very often coaches dont get it right...How bout Rix and Sexton, Walker at FSU ...Are you going to say Bowden cant develop QB's because RIX and Sexton were failures? Gailey did NOT have the luxury of inheriting a veteran proven QB like some new coaches did...

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Look. Arent you tired? The bottomline is all that matters. If I am Braine, I sit down with Chan and ask him point blank: Do you think you need an OC? If he says no, then listen to his reasons why. And, if thats what he wants, then next year should have an ultimatum on production and wins (regardless of anything else beyond a catastrophe). That's it. I think 7 wins is the minimum no matter what. What do you think? Let him live or die by his decision, but after 3 years its pretty damn obvious we have gone backwards over the last 3 years on the offensive side of the ball. Give him an ultimatum 4th year and then, there is no question. That's what I would do if I was Braine.
 
Re: How many bad QB\'s are there on our team?

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I didnt see any teams falling over each other to get Bilbo to transfer after he failed

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First off, this is a little unfair to Bilbo and a bit of a bogus statement. You WILL NEVER see another school go after or show interest in a player on another team. If anything, transfers are found out after the fact. I can tell you this though, Miss State and Ole Miss both would have taken Bilbo in a second had he pulled the trigger. He did not look at other schools.

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AND Ball was not recruited by anyone to be QB except for us...If any failure at all, it would be That this coaching staff OVERESTIMATED Pat Carter...They thought he might be our QB of the future...Interesting though, Every other school (just like on Ball) did NOT recruit him as a QB...I give Gailey and the coaching staff credit as they quickly in his 3rd class here went out and got 2 Pure Drop back QB"s...Scouting a HS QB is a VERY tricky proposition and very often coaches dont get it right...How bout Rix and Sexton, Walker at FSU ...Are you going to say Bowden cant develop QB's because RIX and Sexton were failures? Gailey did NOT have the luxury of inheriting a veteran proven QB like some new coaches did...

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What exactly are you trying to spin here BW. Sexton is a freshman. I guarantee you his future looks very bright at FSU. I would hardly say he is not developing especially considering the fact that he is ONLY a freshman.

If you can honestly say that there is not a "VALID CONCERN" that we are not developing QB's, then I think you are looking at this with blinders on. Maybe Bilbo, Carter and Ball aren't supposed to be QB's and never had it in them to be QB's at this level. But I've seen other coaching staffs get more out of less than we have this year. Where there is smoke there is fire. We have a problem developing QB's and denying that is just putting a blindfold on your head.

I'm not saying the problem cannot be easily corrected, BUT especially now that Gailey is not hiring an OC, he better sure as hell get someone in there whose sole responsiblity is working with QB's.
 
Re: Wonder if CCG...

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thought to check with the "official voice" and loudest mouth on Stingtalk before he made this statement...the "official voice" of Stingtalk has made it clear that he will continue to support CCG only if he hires an OC.

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Well, I don't know if you are directing this statement at me, but I'll answer your question anyway. I have never said that I would ONLY support Gailey if he hired a OC. What I did say is that if he doesn't hire an OC, then he sure as hell better make his system work, because next year I have absolutey no tolerance for Chan if we turn in similar performances. The well has run dry, so if he's not willing to go get an OC or make Nix a REAL OC (Not exstatic about that either but oh well), I doubt the fans will have anything left to keep the well wet. He's going to have to do it himself.

I also think that if he doesn't hire an OC and does mediocre next year, then we look very justified in letting him go.

I'm not happy about this move at all, but it tells me that Chan doesn't think the problem lies with him and/or the OC, Nix. Maybe more responsiblities next year will be distributed to Nix. Obviously this year looked like more and more responsiblities went to Coach Nix as the season went on.

With that said, I am very interested to see what kind of moves he makes in the offseason regarding his staff. Do we get a true QB coach? Will we get a new OLIne coach? There were enough problems on our team that it was apparent we need someone who is in a position of working with the QB's in practice and focusing on clock management during the game. A QB coach would be perfect for this. Maybe bring in someone under Nix. Who knows. This will be an interesting offseason.
 
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No, my opinion is that if our offensive production doesn't improve next year the program is in danger of backing up. I personally couldn't care less who our asst coaches are, I just want to see results. Neither of us knows whether the problem is coaching or not...maybe the coaches are really getting through to the RS kids and that's who we'll see on the field next year.

Far as I'm concerned Chan can do whatever he thinks is right, he just better put more points on the board next season.

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Bingo.
 
BW, you have no clue

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I personally do not think it is a coaching problem and that as we develop a pure drop back QB like Bennett and Manley we will be alot better...

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What are you basing this on because our very own Head Coach said he would never recruit a pure drop back passer after 2001? Of course this is the same man who said he would never try to do both the head coaching and OC jobs at the sametime. I guess he put that statement to bed yesterday as well.
 
Re: How many bad QB\'s are there on our team?

Let me address your points...First as to Bilbo...I should have worded that another way..OF COURSE I KNOW THAT NO SCHOOL CAN RECRUIT A CURRENT PLAYER ,EVEN IF HE IS TRYING TO DECIDE TO TRANFER OR NOT (I have a young student athlete,I know this)...Yes, you are right, Bilbo's hometown teams of Ole Miss. and Miss. State would have taken him....BUT, my main point IS, there is a reason why Bilbo as a Redshirt Juniour NOW, is not leading some major program at the QB position if he had that option...If he was that good, and this coaching staff could not bring him along, then it would be MONEY in THE BANK that he would have explored ALL options AND WOULD HAVE tranfferred to another Schoool where he would be THE man at QB.IF another school thought like some of our fans that he was some kind of saviour...Behind the scenes (Of course BOR,JTS, nor Black watch ) do NOT know what went on and what discussions and feelers he and his parents sent out to prospective schools. AS Gailey overestimated Patrick Carter as to becoming a good college QB, the same could be said of Oleary/Obrein on accessing Bilbo while he was in HS....

As to Wyatt Sexton a Soph. at FSU (Im not trying to flame you as to not knowing your stuff) BUT, Ive watched FSU ALL year long and he is one of the WORST QB's of ANY top 25 team...Their fans hate him and Rix...He will NOT be their Starting QB very shortly into next year as (LIKE us ) FSU recruited and Redshirted 2 QB's in Xavier Lee and Drew Weatherford...The fans a salivating to see them next year and MUCH like us are just wanting to get through their nightmare with Sexton and RIx this year...Rix , i believe I heard yesterday was given the QB job over Sexton for the bowl game....I would take Reggie Ball over Sexton...And that is NO lie....Yeah the future looks bright at FSU BUT, with Xavier Lee and Drew Weatherford not Wyatt Sexton...

Im NOT trying to spin anything...Just stating a fact...a LOT of teams this year and I mean a LOT have had QB problems...FSU has had them for 4 years (Hate to say it but since Richt left)

And YES, ive aknowledged we have a QB problem...BUT, neither you , this JTS fellow or I know for CERTAINTY if it is a coaching problem OR that we have not had the right guy yet, to work with....Im leaning to believing it is NOT a coaching problem or as much of one as it is to not having that 6-3 pure passer with the right tools to work with...Redshirting our 2 highly thought of passers WAS smart...This will be Bennett's 2nd spring under GAiley/Geis.. My reasoning as giving Gailey and Geis the benefit of the doubt IS: They both have proven success in the past....Geis in 3 years as Dallas Cowboys QB coach (under Gailey AND Campo) he worked with Troy Aikman,Jason Garrett and Mike Quinn and in those 3 seasons Dallas had the fewset interceptions in the entire NFL...From 1996-1997 he was QB coach with The Indianapolis Colts and worked with JIm Harbaugh and Harbaugh recorded the second best quarterback rating of his career under Geis..Prior to all this he was QB coach for Pepper Rodgers in the Canadian League...

For Coach Chan Gailey his resume is quit impressive...He has coached Troy Aikman, Kordell Stewart, and Jay Fiedler...He personally made Fiedler a good QB ...Quote Fiedler "I think Chan is one of the BEST around and ive worked with a LOT of coachesin different places"

So,NO i dont think it is a Coaching problem, and obviously Dave Braine (A former Football coach doesnt either ) So for those that DEMAND coaching changes, Tell us all your own coaching credentials??

I KNOW we have QB issues and Im reasonable enough to wait till 2006 in which Gailey would have had 5 years and Bennett/Manly were in their 2nd year as our QB...

The BOTOOM LINE is, I agree with NcJacket and we have to get better QB play and I think we will in 2005 and 2006!!!!
 
If azjacket is reading this thread: does this mean that we can now convert all those who voted "2" in your poll to "1"'s? In other words, if CG does not hire an OC, then all those who voted either "1" or "2" would say to replace him now?
 
Ya know

I think we all are really just spitting in the wind here. CG makes the big $ and it will all rest on what he wants to do. I think most of us have concerns over our O (and NCJ may have the best analysis with regards to execution) but no coach is gonna care about the musings on an internet board.
I gotta believe if next years O production is like this years, combined with our schedule, we win 3 to 4 games. I do not expect the D to be able to win for us all the time.
Whether it is personel, play calling, schemes, execution or the weather, it is CG's call that he will have to live with.
The question becomes - what happens if we win between 2 and 6 games next year?
 
JTS..Im of the opinion you dont know JACK----

about Football and are on mission to berate Gailey and convince others....

Let's take your points and dissect them...

Point A. Our average weight of our starting 5 on the OL IS 300.8 lbs...Not far from the NFL size you are talking about...Also, if you follow the NFL like I do, it has been said over and over and a fact that the Denver Broncos run the football better than the vast majority of teams (This has been the case for years...With T.Davis exct.) They have had the phylosophy of lighter quicker OLineman and this was discussed by Howie, Jimmie, Terry on Fox before...David Wilson and Chan have told us before that that is our phylosophy on O.lineman...A quicker, converted TE. or Dlineman... Gailey has that Denver Broncos mentality built into his thinking having spent 6 years there AND from his best Buddy Dan Reeves an ole Denver Bronco man....EVERYWHERE Chan has been, his teams were successful at running the football...So im following Chan and NOT JTS!!!

AS to REGIE BALL...If you think 5-9 (He is listed at 5-10 but is closer to 5-9) Has the phyical tools to be a major D1 QB...Then go on saying it and losing credibility....Like Bob Griese said..." Reggie , because of his physical size has a very difficult time finding passing lanes) in other words he CAN NOT see the field....So to say he is phsically built better than a 6-3 Taylor Bennett or Kyle Manley is off-base....

Dave Braine, is not some stupid fat old man that just knows how to fly-fish, He is an ex-Football coach...IF, He knew Gailey had a coaching problem , HE would demand change...So goes Gailey, so goes Braine..If Gailey doesnt suceed by 2006..Braine's own legacy at GT will be hurt badly..Forget about his smashing succees with Hewitt (By the way MANY people wanted Paul's head after 3 years)..If Gailey doesnt produce in the next 2 years..Braine looks real bad!!!

But since you keep harping on Gailey making offensive coaching changes, please make an Appointment with him and Interview as our next QB coach? offensive Coordinator....You obviously are more qualified than Geis and Gailey...
 
Re: JTS..Im of the opinion you dont know JACK----

The average weight of our current OL is 296-297, but this is primarily due to the larger OL left over from the O'Leary era. After they are gone, our probable starters will be Gardner (260), Honeycutt (300), Tuminello (280), Rhodes (268), and Besirevic (290). Average weight of this line is 279.6. We are not using the "Alex Gibbs" blocking scheme that the Broncos are known for. What we are using is closer to Gailey's Dallas scheme which calls for big O-Linemen. There is not doubt that Gailey knows the running game and I am not questioning that. I am questioning his ability to recruit the OL necessary to run his scheme. If you don't want to believe me, read some of RM's posts on this subject.

The only physical tool Ball is lacking in is height, but he is fast, strong, and has a strong arm. His biggest issues are technique (footwork, throwing motion) and game management. All things that can be improved with good coaching. He is plenty capable of physically handling the position. If Bennett is able to drastically improve his game and I think that it is possible though unlikely, he could beat out Ball next year, but if he does it will have more to do with what he brings to the table mentally than physically.
 
I took the 2004 media guide to average out

the average wt. of 300.8 for our 5 current starters...You may be right about our new crew being slightly smaller....I know that Gailey has said that Gardner and Smith would be huge when it is all over with...REALLY the only light one I see is Rhodes at 275 lbs...But, I will agree we have to get better on offense at QB and OL...Im thinking we will, Gailey has paid the majority of his attention to recruiting and builing our Defense and I think we will see our Offense get more attention now....

I still say, Reggie is NOT the QB to lead GT to a championship IMHO....He may end up being a good backup, but im looking forward to someone that CAN see the field and hit open recievers and has the head on him to play smart!!! Just my opinion....I will admit if im wrong in a couple of years and Reggie did work out...IMHO...He will be 2nd or 3rd string QB in 2005....
 
Re: JTS..Im of the opinion you dont know JACK----

JTS those kids will be bigger by next year than they are now. Don't know how much but they will be.

As I said before Reggie's biggest problem to me is his accuracy. Can that be improved?
 
Re: JTS..Im of the opinion you dont know JACK----

Probably not, if he's just "a DB we're using at QB"....lol
 
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