First Shot Across ND's Bow

[00Burdell]

I think the merging of all the teams into 4 mega conferences is an unspoken prerequisite to the 4-team playoff.

One team per conf. One champ. No butthurt.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Hmmm. Right now with Texas/Oklahoma/Oklahoma St the Big 12 looks pretty strong. We would need ND and maybe Penn St to seal the deal for it to be us over them. Right now depends on who you ask because after them it drops off pretty quick, but we don't have a Texas.

FSU, Clemson, VPISU, Georgia Tech, Miami? I don't know if we come out on top in that battle.

I read it differently, that it would be the top 4 ranked conference (or at least division) champions. Better than what we have now, imo. If we went undefeated we'd be in.

 

[rduck]

I understood what you meant. I just wanted to highlight that they are scheduling like some sick games, but guaranteeing at least 2 losses each year in doing so. ND's schedule puts anything in the SEC to shame.

***I am not a ND fan. And giving them props for anything pains me***

Agreed. But to hear an SEC fan talk, Vandy and Ole Miss could beat any of those teams...

 

[rduck]

I read it differently, that it would be the top 4 ranked conference (or at least division) champions. Better than what we have now, imo. If we went undefeated we'd be in.

Do you think they would vote an undefeated GT team over a 1 loss LSU, Ala or USC? I don't...

 

[bball1979]

As for ND... They have played some decent schedules in the past with games from the ACC, BiG and Pac 12. I don't care for ND at all but if they played a good schedule and were undefeated, I wouldn't have a problem with them going...

My feelings about the form of a playoff are still evolving but at the moment, I prefer an eight team playoff made up of conference champions and perhaps the best second place conference team.

I don’t support admission of any independents, especially Notre Dame, because they are always over-rated and they can manipulate their schedule to an extent that conference teams cannot. Essentially, they feel if they beat USC, they ought to be in the running. I don’t buy it.

Now the one good thing about permitting them to be considered for the group of four is that if they are close to making it several times but always fail, then the ND people will clamor for a larger playoff contingent (which will be good). But down the road when the playoff is eight teams, ND will think it is their birth right to be included every year. I find that intolerable.

 

[andrew]

Do you think they would vote an undefeated GT team over a 1 loss LSU, Ala or USC? I don't...

Yes. No undefeated BCS team has ever missed out on the title game unless there were two other undefeated BCS teams as well.

I know that doesn't mean it can't happen, but I don't think we would be passed over in favor of a 1 loss team...we play a decent conference schedule, an above-average OOC schedule, plus a championship game.

 

[ThisIsAtlanta]

Do you think they would vote an undefeated GT team over a 1 loss LSU, Ala or USC? I don't...

This is hardly a problem with 4 teams in the playoff, even without the divisional requirement. An undefeated GT doesn't need to get the nod over all but one other team with this model, there's a lot of wiggle room. The fact of the matter is, it's very hard to see an undefeated team from a major conference outside the top 4 before bowl play.

 

[GTCrew4b]

The fact of the matter is, it's very hard to see an undefeated team from a major conference outside the top 4 before bowl play....

...and after conference champsionship games have been played.

 

[ThisIsAtlanta]

...and after conference champsionship games have been played.

Yeah. You know what I meant.

 

[johncu]

I think this is great, but I wish he had gone further and limited it to conference champs, and not just division champs. This seems to be directed at both ND and the SEC.

 

[CheWreck]

What he's actually saying is that if you didn't win your division, you should be out of the final 4.

I understand where he was going with this, and I like the dig at Alabama. But can someone please tell me in exactly what scenario you would have a division winner who DID NOT win their conference to make the 4-team playoff? How can you be a division champ who has just lost your conference championship game right before the playoffs and still get in?

Is he really referring to a scenario, for example, where:

- Florida and Alabama both go undefeated (i.e. #1 and #2 in the polls prior to conference title game)
- don't play during the regular season
- UF loses to Bama in SEC title game
- UF remains in top 4 in country and makes playoff having just lost to one of the other playoff participants (to #1 team in the country)

Is this what we're really looking at if we allow division winners who don't win their conference? How often is this even statistically possible?

In my opinion, there should be some requirement for conference champs to make the playoffs. And if there's a playoff setup where teams other than conference champs get in, then it should include more than 4 teams.

 

[ThisIsAtlanta]

I understand where he was going with this, and I like the dig at Alabama. But can someone please tell me in exactly what scenario you would have a division winner who DID NOT win their conference to make the 4-team playoff? How can you be a division champ who has just lost your conference championship game right before the playoffs and still get in?

Is he really referring to a scenario, for example, where:

- Florida and Alabama both go undefeated (i.e. #1 and #2 in the polls prior to conference title game)
- don't play during the regular season
- UF loses to Bama in SEC title game
- UF remains in top 4 in country and makes playoff having just lost to one of the other playoff participants (to #1 team in the country)

Is this what we're really looking at if we allow division winners who don't win their conference? How often is this even statistically possible?

In my opinion, there should be some requirement for conference champs to make the playoffs. And if there's a playoff setup where teams other than conference champs get in, then it should include more than 4 teams.

This is exactly what we're talking about, and would have been exactly what happened last year had LSU and Alabama been in different divisions. Alabama wouldn't have dropped out of the top 4, they probably would have been 3rd at worst. As was evidenced by what actually did happen, which is just that.

 

[rduck]

What i am saying is that if we go undefeated this year, starting the season unranked, would we be able to gain enough ground on the SEC, BiG 10, Pac 12 or Big 12 to get in even if some have 1 loss?

Say Oregon beats USC in the championship game and hand the Trojans their only loss. Do we get in before the previously ranked #1 team if they allow division winners in?

 

[ThisIsAtlanta]

What i am saying is that if we go undefeated this year, starting the season unranked, would we be able to gain enough ground on the SEC, BiG 10, Pac 12 or Big 12 to get in even if some have 1 loss?

Say Oregon beats USC in the championship game and hand the Trojans their only loss. Do we get in before the previously ranked #1 team if they allow division winners in?

What we are all saying is yes. If we don't lose a single game, and there aren't 4 other undefeated teams from major conferences to keep us out, we will be in the top 4.

EDIT: I tried to contrive a scenario under which somehow an undefeated GT would get left out of the 4 team playoff, but it's about as complicated as me planning bank robbery and just as likely to happen.

 

[andrew]

What i am saying is that if we go undefeated this year, starting the season unranked, would we be able to gain enough ground on the SEC, BiG 10, Pac 12 or Big 12 to get in even if some have 1 loss?

Say Oregon beats USC in the championship game and hand the Trojans their only loss. Do we get in before the previously ranked #1 team if they allow division winners in?

Yes.

 

[Allen Koholic]

If Notre Dame is independent, doesn't that mean they always win their own division?

 

[GTCrew4b]

If Notre Dame is independent, doesn't that mean they always win their own division?

So long as the cutoff remains Top 4 (not top 6 or something stupid). I think there should definitely be an exception for Notre Dame and all independents, but I agree that the main target of this move is the SEC.

 

[olgoldandwhite]

One scenario: ND finishes 11-1, Alabama finishes 12-1, Texas finishes 11-1, Ohio State finishes 12-1, USC finishes 12-1, GT finishes 13-0, Boise finishes 13-0, BYU finishes 12-0; who do the voters/committee pick as the top 4? Remember, you nor I get a vote.

 

[andrew]

One scenario: ND finishes 11-1, Alabama finishes 12-1, Texas finishes 11-1, Ohio State finishes 12-1, USC finishes 12-1, GT finishes 13-0, Boise finishes 13-0, BYU finishes 12-0; who do the voters/committee pick as the top 4? Remember, you nor I get a vote.

Impossible to say all four without more details on the schedule, but I am confident GT would be one of them in that scenario (assuming the ACC doesn't have its best teams raided by another conference.)

 

[stinger78]

Agreed. But to hear an SEC fan talk, Vandy and Ole Miss could beat any of those teams...

Yeah they talk like that, but when Vandy and Ole Miss actually do something worth note, we can make that projection.

Actually Ole Miss did start to do something a few years ago with Jevan Snead at QB, but he left early for the NFL and is now selling cars in Pascagoula, or so I hear.