Revisionist History

johncu

johncu

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In discussions of PJ's tenure of Georgia Tech, critics often tend to completely throw out the results of 2008-2009, rationalizing this by saying that he had inherited an extremely talented team full of Gailey's players that would have been good under any coach.

I looked back at all of the 2008 preseason prognostications, and here's what I found (LINK)

Out of 15 major preseason rankings, only 2 thought we would finish better than 4th in the Coastal Division (2nd and 3rd). Several expected us to even finish behind Virginia and/or Duke in the conference. SI even expected us to go 0-8 in conference play.

This crap about Johnson inheriting some juggernaut is absolute horseshit. Gailey had left a few stars, but our OL was totally depleted, with tight ends, converted DLs, and friggin' walkons all over the 2 deep. We had ZERO depth on either side of the ball, and our back 7 was extremely thin and experienced, despite a couple of good players.

We all knew this back then - everyone expected even better after '08/'09 because we knew that those teams had a ton of issues. When the improvement didn't come, suddenly everyone totally forgot that Johnson had wildly exceeded expectations in his first 2 years.


My point is that you have to consider the whole picture. Of course the 2008/2009 teams had a lot of talent, but that's only in hindsight. Looking at those expectations from unbiased outsiders, clearly that talent wasn't evident until PJ became their coach. For that reason, I think the results of those seasons are every bit as valid as the results of the current ones. We have had a rough patch under PJ, but let's not pretend that that is the totality of his regime here.
 
johncu said:
In discussions of PJ's tenure of Georgia Tech, critics often tend to completely throw out the results of 2008-2009, rationalizing this by saying that he had inherited an extremely talented team full of Gailey's players that would have been good under any coach.

I looked back at all of the 2008 preseason prognostications, and here's what I found (LINK)

Out of 15 major preseason rankings, only 2 thought we would finish better than 4th in the Coastal Division (2nd and 3rd). Several expected us to even finish behind Virginia and/or Duke in the conference. SI even expected us to go 0-8 in conference play.

This crap about Johnson inheriting some juggernaut is absolute horseshit. Gailey had left a few stars, but our OL was totally depleted, with tight ends, converted DLs, and friggin' walkons all over the 2 deep. We had ZERO depth on either side of the ball, and our back 7 was extremely thin and experienced, despite a couple of good players.

We all knew this back then - everyone expected even better after '08/'09 because we knew that those teams had a ton of issues. When the improvement didn't come, suddenly everyone totally forgot that Johnson had wildly exceeded expectations in his first 2 years.


My point is that you have to consider the whole picture. Of course the 2008/2009 teams had a lot of talent, but that's only in hindsight. Looking at those expectations from unbiased outsiders, clearly that talent wasn't evident until PJ became their coach. For that reason, I think the results of those seasons are every bit as valid as the results of the current ones. We have had a rough patch under PJ, but let's not pretend that that is the totality of his regime here.
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A lot of those talented players (Dwyer, Burnett, Morgan) were a part of our best recruiting class under Gailey. I think most people knew those guys were talented, and they definitely played huge roles in making 2008 and 2009 the seasons that they were. The preseason prognostications were underwhelming because many people doubted that Johnson's attack could work at the BCS level. He proved that it can with a talented QB who can make the reads and explosive playmakers. Now he just needs to find a way to get some of those type players again so we can get back to winning some of our games against Miami, VT, Clemson and UGA.
 
We were supposed to be a dumpster fire, true. But a lot of that had to do with how good the rest of the ACC Coastal was perceived to be at the time. UNC, Miami, VPI, and even UVA were much stronger (Al Groh was ACC COY in 2007).

Talent was there, but young and unproven. We sure didn't prove anything in 2007.

Hindsight is 20/20. But it is not arguable that we did not have better talent than we do today, regardless of what preseason mag said what at the time. I'm sure if you asked CPJ he would tell you the same thing. I'm not a hate-on-CPJ guy, but you can't argue talent in 08-09 vs. today.
 
so lets go back to 2008 or 2009 then shall we. someone bust out the flux capacitor
 
I find it interesting that some of the best QB play we have had under CPJ was by Nesbitt, who was recruited for CCG's system but probably would have struggled in a passing offense. Even Reggie Ball might have had a higher level of success if he had played the option. It's not just about who you recruit, it's about having a system that fits their talents and allows them to excel.
 
The 2008 prognostication of gloom made perfect sense to me.

Take what Gailey did with Calvin Johnson then subtract Calvin Johnson.
 
johncu said:
In discussions of PJ's tenure of Georgia Tech, critics often tend to completely throw out the results of 2008-2009, rationalizing this by saying that he had inherited an extremely talented team full of Gailey's players that would have been good under any coach.

I looked back at all of the 2008 preseason prognostications, and here's what I found (LINK)

Out of 15 major preseason rankings, only 2 thought we would finish better than 4th in the Coastal Division (2nd and 3rd). Several expected us to even finish behind Virginia and/or Duke in the conference. SI even expected us to go 0-8 in conference play.

This crap about Johnson inheriting some juggernaut is absolute horseshit. Gailey had left a few stars, but our OL was totally depleted, with tight ends, converted DLs, and friggin' walkons all over the 2 deep. We had ZERO depth on either side of the ball, and our back 7 was extremely thin and experienced, despite a couple of good players.

We all knew this back then - everyone expected even better after '08/'09 because we knew that those teams had a ton of issues. When the improvement didn't come, suddenly everyone totally forgot that Johnson had wildly exceeded expectations in his first 2 years.


My point is that you have to consider the whole picture. Of course the 2008/2009 teams had a lot of talent, but that's only in hindsight. Looking at those expectations from unbiased outsiders, clearly that talent wasn't evident until PJ became their coach. For that reason, I think the results of those seasons are every bit as valid as the results of the current ones. We have had a rough patch under PJ, but let's not pretend that that is the totality of his regime here.
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When you "consider the whole picture" in evaluating a college coach over time, you ALWAYS differentiate what they did with their own players versus those they inherited. The characterization of what a different coach would have done with those same players is interesting but somewhat irrelevant.

Head coaches are ultimately responsible for the sum whole results, from game-day decisions, to strategy and schemes, to hiring the right support staff, to coaching up the individual players they recruit, and ultimately to recruiting the correct players to maximize results.

There is no BS in evaluating trend as well as total results and there is no BS in evaluating performance with players you recruited and coaches you hired over performance with those you inherited.

CPJ probably did more with the players he inherited than most coaches could have accomplished. But, "what have you done for me lately" is a reality of all employee evaluations and especially the highly inflated world of college football coaching contracts.

NCAAFB history is littered with coaches who came in with a big splash only to falter on the long haul. Oddly, it may be better to falter early and lower expectations and show continuous improvement than to come in blazing and have an extended letdown.

Hopefully we can turn the corner. I think while CPJ may have enjoyed some talent he inherited he also was saddled with some attitude problems he also inherited. Some revered players of the 2008 and 2009 seasons are accountable for some of the attitude problems in 2010 for example.
 
Nashville Jacket said:
So how many more years are you willing tolerate mediocre results?
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How many more years do you need to find somebody who can both bring in higher caliber athletes and get a proportionately better win-loss record out of them?

I'd love to hear your short list.
 
I never forgave Gailey as most for the 2002 beat down in Athens. Those weren't his players though. The same guys who don't want to give PJ any credit for his first two seasons are the same ones who wanted to fire Gailey after his first season. Fans being fans. That's why we don't run the program.
 
BarrelORum said:
I never forgave Gailey as most for the 2002 beat down in Athens.
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But its not as if that were the only low-water mark of his tenure. I think Duke ended the longest-losing streak in ACC history against Gailey (we were heavily favored); The most lopsided loss to Clemson in the history of the series goes to Gailey. I have forgotten so many other ones.

This is decidedly different than when Ross took over and half the team quit on him - Ross won over those players and never looked back - we got better as a program every year. With Gailey, it was going in circles - beat a top 5 team, lose to a bottom 5 team, rinse, repeat for 7 years.
 
00Burdell said:
But its not as if that were the only low-water mark of his tenure. I think Duke ended the longest-losing streak in ACC history against Gailey (we were heavily favored); The most lopsided loss to Clemson in the history of the series goes to Gailey. I have forgotten so many other ones.

This is decidedly different than when Ross took over and half the team quit on him - Ross won over those players and never looked back - we got better as a program every year. With Gailey, it was going in circles - beat a top 5 team, lose to a bottom 5 team, rinse, repeat for 7 years.
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You're missing the point. The point is how many people didn't give PJ credit in 2008 for the 2008 season? How about 2009? People want to rewrite history as fans. We all wanted Gailey accountable for the 2002 season even though those were not his players. He should be accountable. In 2013 we don't give PJ any credit for 2008 and 2009, but back then we öööö sure thought he was accountable and we commended him for the results. Now we rather forget them.
 
Anyone who wants to fire Paul Johnson should first have to put together a list of suitable replacements. I'd be willing to consider it then. Please make this be a forum rule.
 
BarrelORum said:
I never forgave Gailey as most for the 2002 beat down in Athens. Those weren't his players though. The same guys who don't want to give PJ any credit for his first two seasons are the same ones who wanted to fire Gailey after his first season. Fans being fans. That's why we don't run the program.
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Im a BIG CPJ fan, and I despised CG, after end of 2003.


When CG was hired, I was jacked.

Attended the same church with a fraternity brother whose Dad worked at the GTAA at that time, that hiring CG was going to be F-ing awesome for GT.

CG was was from Georgia and that would mean good in-state recruiting potential and CG would bring NFL experience to GT.

I was BEYOND shocked when he told me his Dad thought hiring CG would be a disaster.

It was.

I never forgot that.
 
Allen Koholic said:
Anyone who wants to fire Paul Johnson should first have to put together a list of suitable replacements. I'd be willing to consider it then. Please make this be a forum rule.
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When discussing replacements for CPJ, people should also keep in mind:

1. Any replacement who will take the job will probably have an inferior resume to CPJ.

2. A young up-and-comer who does well will probably use Tech as a stepping stone to a higher profile job.

3. Changing the offense would probably require a few down years as the system gets adopted and players are recruited.

4. If we hire a dud, we'll be stuck for 4-5 years before we can move on.

5. The new coach might be a better recruiter, or might be a better strategist, or might choose assistants well, but it's unlikely he will be good at everything.
 
What's the point of talking about 2008 now though?

All I care about is the future. People on both sides can debate whether or not it was CPJ or the players that caused the success but it's a moot point NOW.
 
Paul's weakness is recruiting those players to get back to 2008. I'm not convinced it will happen. Like the coach. Not the talent that wants to play here in this system.
 
Allen Koholic said:
Anyone who wants to fire Paul Johnson should first have to put together a list of suitable replacements. I'd be willing to consider it then. Please make this be a forum rule.
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Along with how much they plan on donating to make it happen.
 
i_like_money said:
What's the point of talking about 2008 now though?

All I care about is the future. People on both sides can debate whether or not it was CPJ or the players that caused the success but it's a moot point NOW.
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Not when people are trying to criticize him based on a cut section of his work from 2010 on. That's the point.

If PJ wins the bowl game that is four out of 6 seasons with 8 (+) wins. Were not getting rid of a coach with that type of track record.
 
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