GTCrew4b on Improving the Quality of the Fanbase (Volume 1)

bmeGT said:
While I do understand and greatly respect your point, I think all the pessimistic vibes are coming from CPJ and the slump this program has been in since 2010 and frankly as a fan, it seems that nothing is being done to change it. When we year in and year out lose to the same exact teams, which are the teams that you NEED to beat, your optimism fades as a fan base. Take a look back at 08/09 on this board. I know I wasn't a member then, but I have been reading this site for many years. MNC could be seen in every other thread back then, being ABOUT TECH. I think in all honesty that if CPJ leaves and the new coach has a year or two such as CPJ had in the beginning, the fan base will start to rise again and so will be attitude.

Hell, I remember in 09' when TECH won the ACC, I started to see fair weather fans from other teams jump ship and claim TECH fandom. To be summed up easily: you have to have a good team first. Don't get me wrong, we are a good team, but not to a lot of other peoples expectations. 10/11+ wins denotes a good WINNING team. Not 7-6.
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Many of us are pessimistic by nature but more than a few are idiot savants. No matter the topic, fire the coach.
 
bmeGT said:
Well yes, I am young but you're missing my point. Maybe it would be better worded to say "...the slump this program is usually in, most recently since 2010."

Does this tickle your fancy?
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It would be hard for you to know whether or not I missed your point, from a single (accurate) observation on my part.

I will say the young tend to know very little. For that reason, they often take a specific case and give it broad consequence. They point to a specfic case and think it is a general case. And when someone who has seen other examples of the general case speak about the general case, the young tend to write prescriptions based on a recent specific case, which is all they know.

At least 4b, in his doomed attempt to tilt at windmills, understands that the focus of his lament is constant over time and independent of the variables you think it is dependent upon.

I remember a Lunch With George after the season. O'Leary had won a bunch of games and beat UGa like a dusty rug. He was feeling happy and even smug, expecting gratitude and adoration from the gathered faithful. First question off the bat was a criticism about the UGa game about how he handled a goal line offensive series.

It took all the air out of his sails. Possibly, for the long term. There were many happy and positive GT fans there, but the damage was done.

Before that, Bobby Ross won a national championship. The remarkable part to me about this was how little the state mindsets changed. The media which bashed and slightest us before continued to bash and slight us. The GT fan base was happy, but subconsiously seemed to expect us to return to earth, which happened next year. We got zero recruiting bump from the accomplishment. We got zero optimism from the accomplishment.

Both of the two coaches mentioned above left our program shortly afterwards, on their terms. Had we the fan base personality of, say, South Carolina, would that have happened? Maybe. Maybe not.

The fan base drove away a quality coach who never had a losing season at GT, despite crippling injuries and program mistakes driven from upstairs. He had cracked the code of college recruiting. This is Chan Gailey. Long known for finding diamonds in the rough, he was going against the big boys in recruiting and winning, when he was let go. In fact, his successor's best results came from Gailey's players maturing as upper classmen.

I think the fan base deprived us of one of the best coaches the game has seen. Certainly one of the finest defensive minds. Bud Carson. Ever hear of the Steel Curtain? Ever hear of the Cover 2 defense?

Bud was bitter about what happened @GT. Can't say I blame him. Chan said he roots for every former team he ever coached except one. Can't say I blame him. O'Leary ain't coming back. I don't think Ross would have either.

Reports are that CPJ would not mind a buyout. My concern is he won't get one and will just go through the motions on the field and on the recruiting trail, much like Shanahan did in the NFL this year.

There is a commonality to all the above, and it seems to be decoupled from what happens on the field.
 
DressCheeseSideSeaboard said:
I was there then to see the turnaround. The incompetent administrators at Tech were good training for dealing with HR people later.
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of course! from experience HR people are generally not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Incompetence is to be expected from that lot. It bothered me at GT though, as they market themselves as being intellectually a "cut above". The irony was, the processes were so convoluted and yet we supposedly have the #1 IE school in the world and a reputable college of management as well. Remove the plank from your own eye before talking about the splinter in mine.

I always had trouble hiring good HR people. An executive recruiter I worked with once explained that by saying that there aren't many talented people in that field. So the good ones move up quickly and the rest just shuffle around. made sense to me.
 
B said:
talking about hating your time at Tech and its effect on your outlook of the school...
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I agree, and intend to visit this topic in "Volume 2"

I think there is some truth to my notion that we downplay just how emotionally invested we are in the program by being pessimistic or realistic in an effort to avoid looking like UGA fans or simply the base college fooball fan. We act like we don't care as much as the do, but by öööö we better not lose to them. Hell my ringtone currently is a recording of "Tyler in Atlanta." But I'd be lying if I wish we didn't have 10 Tylers in Atlantas crying after a loss and saying how much he loved his team, for some of those who chalk up losses before they happen, and go to the game only to point out our execution flaws to the entire section (although technically he Tyler in Atlanta did the same for the S. Carolina game).

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think it would be too painful for us as a fanbase to give in to a little irrational optimism and positivity. I think part of the reason we avoid it is to avoid looking stupid.
 
Improving the Quality of the GT fanbase, one over-thought out, over analyzed post at a time.
 
I think a decade of bad product and bad administration has taken a toll. I remember in the O'Leary days even when they were having trouble adjusting after loosing Fridge I had confidence they would get it fixed. Down three touchdowns to CavMan? No problem. One all-time comeback comin' right up. UGAg? Not a problem. It started at the very top. Homer Rice had everybody rowing the ship in the same direction. The Hill was appeased and somewhat lenient. Things were turned around and success was had (Ross, O'Leary) and failure was quickly eliminated (Lewis). Dave Braine coming in after Homer Rice in 1997 probably marked the beginning of the downward spiral.... it just was a matter of Homer Rice's hires going away.

Now I think if you're honest you'll admit you haven't been able to have those same feelings reliably in quite awhile. When UGAg marched down the field in no time to get it back to 20-7 did you feel like that was merely a hiccup, or deep down in your gut did you get a sick sick feeling? We are engineers. We are deeply grounded in reality. The trouble is reality has not been very friendly the last decade.

If you would like to see a counter example ... I offer you Tom Jurich as Louisville's very own Homer Rice. A program with VERY little history in any sport. They were playing in C-USA just 15 years ago FFS. Jurich came in in 1997 at Louisville. Since then he has only orchestrated getting them in the Big East. Then the ACC. Winning a basketball title. Being ranked in darn near everything else. The facilities are nearly all new and all outstanding. They make bank and sell out pretty much every basketball and football game. Their football stadium holds about as much as BDS ... and they want to expand it again. They routinely stomp their in state SEC rival in football. And Kentucky can't even win 2 of 3 against them even though basketball is ALL that matters at Kentucky. And they do that with Kentucky having SEC bank money to outspend them on. But they're doing so well, Jurich closed that gap with donations. Success breeds success ... and it starts at the top. In the past 18 months Louisville football won the Sugar Bowl and stayed ranked all year. Men's basketball won a title and is Top 10. Women's basketball shocked the world and sent the Baylor neanderthal packing with a loss in the women's tournament and advanced to the Final Four. And their baseball team handily dealt with the same Vanderbilt squad that sent Danny Hall packing (yet again) to advance to the CWS. And they built a new $17.5m soccer facility for a men's soccer program that was 2010 national runner up ... I guess because they are running out of new sports to be good at.
 
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georgia_tech_swagger said:
It started at the very top. Homer Rice had everybody rowing the ship in the same direction. The Hill was appeased and somewhat lenient. Things were turned around and success was had (Ross, O'Leary) and failure was quickly eliminated (Lewis). Dave Braine coming in after Homer Rice in 1997 probably marked the beginning of the downward spiral.... it just a matter of Homer Rice's hires going away.
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I totally 100% agree with this. Everything starts at the top. The great ones change the culture. The rest just manage what they inherit and tweak things maybe by changing coaches occasionally in the hopes of getting the next Bobby Ross or Cremins. The jury is still out on our new guy but the silence is deafening.
 
B said:
I often wonder if GT creates this culture that the OP refers to. Most of us hated the place when we were there and couldn't wait to "get out". (How many other schools use this phrase in lieu of "graduate"?)It was harsh, stark, and brutal at times. The school was poorly run and had inefficient systems and processes (any of you OF's go through manual registration). Oftentimes, you wondered how a place that was allegedly full of intelligent people could be run so poorly. The effectiveness of some (most?) of the teachers was atrocious. in fact, teaching seemed to be an afterthought.
Contrast that to the feelings that other alums have towards "dear old alma mater". I doubt many alums of other schools had the same experience. in fact, based on many conversations, many had the exact opposite.
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You can stop wondering, because GT absolutely fosters that culture. Great post, though. I also wonder how a place allegedly full of smart people can be so thoroughly incompetent on so many levels.

It's almost like an elaborate con job, lol. The school's reputation attracts good students and smart people, and those people basically end up educating themselves for four or five years because the TAs and much of the faculty surely don't give a öööö about anything other than their research.

To be frank I would go to another school if I had to do it over again. While I'm proud of the degree simply because I saw it through, I would've been just as successful without it, as I'm sure would most of you. We like to pretend that Tech is the greatest school on the planet to validate our efforts, but the reality is that there are plenty of ultra-successful people who had fun in college. Which makes GT grads pretty daft when you think about it, lol.
 
The older I get, the more I see truth in the post above me.
 
Ga Tech has reflected excellence for a LONG time.The people that graduate are SUPERIOR additions to society.We therefore expect excellence including football..

Generally we don't expect perfection(although some do), but we know only fair results on a comparative basis when we see it .We have been seeing that recently.
 
I don't blame the fans any more. I think the fans' reaction is a by product of years and years of mediocrity caused primarily by an administration that sees football as an inconvenience and ties one arm behind the AD and coaches' backs with a number of issues like special admits. It's like we have a governor on the engine (the hill) and people keep screaming at the driver (the coach) because he can't keep up.

I work with guys that went to GT but are fans of other schools. I'm not buying them a beer during happy hour, but I can't say that I blame them. Having someone be a fan should be considered a privilege. Fan-hood is a huge investment of time. People who are super competitive are not going to pull for GT over the long term.
 
engineers by nature look for problems to solve. nothing is perfect so an engineer is rarely happy. the more they demand a better solution, the less happy they will be with an existing one

in addition, when you compete to regain your respectability coming from a small pond and being the academic big fish to coming to a big pond and being a small fish, the tendency is to exaggerate our normal human behavior of pouncing on the weak to put down any mistake in an effort to overcome the shame of not being the best.
 
GTCrew4b said:
To bring the first theory into the conversation, do you think there's any truth to the "Don't be like UGA" aspect of this particular trait of pessimism or avoidance of "delusion?"
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GTCrew4b said:
I think there is some truth to my notion that we downplay just how emotionally invested we are in the program by being pessimistic or realistic in an effort to avoid looking like UGA fans or simply the base college fooball fan.
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No. Not entirely. I don't think any of our pessimistic fanbase singles out the UGA-style of delusion as a validation of the pessimism. I do think the part about being pessimistic to downplay our emotional investment is a coping strategy. Most of us are smart enough to realize that it's just game, one we have very little impact on. I think that the Tyler-in-Atlanta fans are also the same type of people who would go spend more money than they have at the casino. I think most of us view Tech football as betting against the house. It's hard to be positive when you know the odds. Most fanbases (for example Penn State where I'm at right now) have engineers (I'm resisting the urge talk down on them...) and other "realists", but that's counter-balanced by the lib arts majors and communications majors and the other folks who enjoyed college.

TL;DR - it's not a response to UGA, it's a response to optimistic people in general.

staggerwing said:
You can stop wondering, because GT absolutely fosters that culture. Great post, though. I also wonder how a place allegedly full of smart people can be so thoroughly incompetent on so many levels.

It's almost like an elaborate con job, lol. The school's reputation attracts good students and smart people, and those people basically end up educating themselves for four or five years because the TAs and much of the faculty surely don't give a öööö about anything other than their research.

To be frank I would go to another school if I had to do it over again. While I'm proud of the degree simply because I saw it through, I would've been just as successful without it, as I'm sure would most of you. We like to pretend that Tech is the greatest school on the planet to validate our efforts, but the reality is that there are plenty of ultra-successful people who had fun in college. Which makes GT grads pretty daft when you think about it, lol.
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Everything, except the part about going somewhere else.
Changing the culture of Tech would be the only thing that ultimately changes the fanbase. But, how many of us would want to change the culture. Lather, rinse, repeat.
 
As a pure side note to the posts above, I have two degrees from GT, but I don't intend to recommend GT when my son starts to look at colleges.
 
beej67 said:
As a pure side note to the posts above, I have two degrees from GT, but I don't intend to recommend GT when my son starts to look at colleges.
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my oldest son was accepted, went down for one of those orientation visits, stayed a couple of days, came back and said it wasn't for him. I didn't say one word about GT pro or con during the whole college selection process although he grew up going to Tech games as a kid. I wasn't upset (maybe figured he was a bit smarter than the old man.)
 
This thread is making it too complicated. It's simple. Two ways to have a good fanbase in cfb

1. Win. It changes everything.
2. Have a school in a college town where you're the only show in town.

I live in Iowa and the dynamic is the same as it was in Georgia. Iowa State is seen as the nerdy school and Iowa is the state powerhouse program. Iowa clearly dominates when it comes to fans. I've been to Iowa State games tho and the fans are passionate even when they're just average. Why?? BECAUSE IT ISN'T öööö ELSE TO DO IN AMES, IA!! Oh and I'm sure at least 90% of their student athletes would rather go to GT due to location and program prestige (even if we aren't what we used to be). These student athletes don't care about the fans.
 
B said:
I often wonder if GT creates this culture that the OP refers to. Most of us hated the place when we were there and couldn't wait to "get out". (How many other schools use this phrase in lieu of "graduate"?)It was harsh, stark, and brutal at times. The school was poorly run and had inefficient systems and processes (any of you OF's go through manual registration). Oftentimes, you wondered how a place that was allegedly full of intelligent people could be run so poorly. The effectiveness of some (most?) of the teachers was atrocious. in fact, teaching seemed to be an afterthought.
Contrast that to the feelings that other alums have towards "dear old alma mater". I doubt many alums of other schools had the same experience. in fact, based on many conversations, many had the exact opposite.

however, the attitude of the fan base "is what it is". what can change it? I saw it happen in '89 when the team that had done poorly for 2 two years and started 0-3 won 7 out of the last 8 games.It happened again when GOL, Ralph and Joe Hamilton resurrected the program in the late 90's. build it and they will come.
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Ouch you hit the nail on the head, B. It pains me to say but I think Tech may be a dinosaur with its "abuse the students" mentality. Sooner or later it is going to be viewed as a serious negative with all these ratings systems and such.

With the purported "strategy" of our institute being to emulate MIT and become 50% graduate students, and chase research $ and then turn around and hand the profit to the professors, along with UGAy taking the market for "working" engineers which the hillnerds concede readily in favor of the former "strategy" I fear the best days of the Institute are behind it.
 
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