CPJ still not happy with OL play

jdubjacket said:
Yeah and then 2015 happened.
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Yeah, but that exception only proves the rule. We've had some damn good offenses under CPJ, cut blocking at all. It's not like we started cut blocking any more in 2015 than in the past, so it's pretty obvious that it's not the reason we were bad.

There scheme can work, and can work extremely well when executed properly. Therefore there are only 2 possible reasons when it doesn't work:

1) The players are not good enough to execute it well
2) The coaches are not coaching the execution well

Regardless, it's the coaches' fault. I tend to get a lot of crap for defending CPJ all the time, but I'm really not even defending him - I'm defending the scheme. When we lose it's his fault (rightfully so), but so many people want to look at that as proof that the option "doesn't work" or has been "figured out". It's just dumb. When Gailey got his ass kicked 197 times in a row by UGA people weren't constantly suggesting that the pro style scheme didn't work, they just concluded that he wasn't a good coach.
 
I don't get it. You (CPJ) are the coach. And the OC. The offensive line is your responsibility.

How is it that it has sucked since we got off the plane from the Orange Bowl?

The way he complains about it, its like its the neighbor's dog laying down a long one on the front porch. Quit beyotching and freakin FIX IT. Recruit better OL and do a better job coaching them.

I'm not going to last very long this season if we start out like we did post-cupcake last season.
 
It could also be CPJ doing that thing he does where he says everything sucks regardless.
 
cincyjacket said:
Win the LOS.and the offense will work (option or not).
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No doubt, but offensive scheme for an option play generally leaves someone unblocked. If you go back to our most dominant offenses under CPJ (2009, 2015) you're still going to see defensive players unblocked (intentionally). The problem is when someone who is supposed to be blocked is unblocked (which we saw an astounding number of times last year).
 
If we want our O-line to block everyone on the D-line and to stay engaged with their blocks then we are talking about changing our offense. If this offense is going to succeed again the kids have to learn to make quicker reads and adjustments when defenses shift, to go after the right man. Indeed, when we see three or four fire out and hit no one and land on their face and belly we are in trouble. In this offense you have to rule block, not zone block, so you must become skilled in recognizing who your man is and knowing who is to be optioned. Last minute shifts disrupt the blocking scheme, but good and experienced linemen should know how to adjust to the shifts and know their responsibilities.

Stunts and blitzes can be disruptive of this offense, just as they can also disrupt a drop back passing game. The key is recognition and making the right hot reads. If you fill up the box and shoot people through gaps the inside handoffs and options down the line are going to be difficult. You have to recognize those defensive calls and throw quick passes and run quickly to the outside with something like our rocket toss.

I do think Notre Dame shifted the philosophies of defenses against us. Up until then, most defenses emphasized staying home, carrying out your assignment. That strategy was always easy for CPJ to exploit. Notre Dame took the route of being aggressive, penetrating the line, and getting into our backfield. It worked for them and it worked for others who faced us later in the year. CPJ and the staff has had a year to expect we will only see more of this kind of defense. They should be ready. If not, they will have to initiate major changes to our offensive scheme, or lose a lot of games.
 
The explanation isn't really that difficult: the OL in 2014 wasn't as good as people remember. AB and BB were two-deep with senior. There's the joke about Shaq Mason being the equivalent of five men, but Shaq Mason plus AB/BB seniors made the other four linemen look better than they really were.

After the 2014 Orange Bowl, CPJ said STTE of "Justin Thomas was really good and made many other people look better than they really were." Careful analysis of the OB tape shows some missed assignments and blown-up plays. Big passes and runs overcame that.

Then AB/BB became even worse than expected last year because of injuries. It was not like the three seniors on OL were always healthy either.

People also underestimate the effect of all of the pre-season hype and then easily going through the first two opponents. Then the team had the effect of "too much" effort, as CPJ called it. Many of players tried to do too much instead of what the play wanted them to do.
 
Apparently, we need to beg for Shaq Mason to retire from the NFL and come back and coach the OL
 
00Burdell said:
I don't get it. You (CPJ) are the coach. And the OC. The offensive line is your responsibility.

How is it that it has sucked since we got off the plane from the Orange Bowl?
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Guys started smoking weed.
 
Shaq Mason would drive block and take 2-3 defenders with him 5 yards downfield.

Obviously that made things easier for everyone else.
 
There are two problems I have seen with the O line, I played O line in college, and they are quite different. First, when they are cut blocking they are not driving their legs through the block. It is more like a dive block and that won't do it. The biggest problem is that most defenses are sending 7-8 players at a time and 5 guys can't block that many defenders. I am amazed that Roof has not drilled it into CPJ's head that our opponents defenses has figured out the TO.. I see our offense having a hard time unless there is a little bit of diversification to the playbook which doesn't even exist.
 
techdad said:
There are two problems I have seen with the O line, I played O line in college, and they are quite different. First, when they are cut blocking they are not driving their legs through the block. It is more like a dive block and that won't do it. The biggest problem is that most defenses are sending 7-8 players at a time and 5 guys can't block that many defenders. I am amazed that Roof has not drilled it into CPJ's head that our opponents defenses has figured out the TO.. I see our offense having a hard time unless there is a little bit of diversification to the playbook which doesn't even exist.
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yep, and 185lb Abacks are not going to stop 230lb LBs for long when they do come on a blitz--we have GOT to offset that advantage somehow
 
techdad said:
There are two problems I have seen with the O line, I played O line in college, and they are quite different. First, when they are cut blocking they are not driving their legs through the block. It is more like a dive block and that won't do it. The biggest problem is that most defenses are sending 7-8 players at a time and 5 guys can't block that many defenders. I am amazed that Roof has not drilled it into CPJ's head that our opponents defenses has figured out the TO.. I see our offense having a hard time unless there is a little bit of diversification to the playbook which doesn't even exist.
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It took those defenses long enough to figure out how to stop the TO. 7 years, 2008-2014, and they didn't find the blueprint.

It's not news that 5 guys can't block 7-8 guys. CPJ used max protect passing protection last season, but that depended on AB's and BB's after going four-deep into our depth chart or whatever. Then on runs, those AB's and BB's also had to block the right guys.

There is no such thing as "figuring out" schemes. Every scheme is at least 11-vs-11 while true pro-style schemes are 10-vs-11. Every scheme can be stopped. Pro-style schemes make up for the one player difference by receivers running routes and getting open even in double-coverage.

And every scheme does pretty badly without blocking or, especially, blocking the wrong player. Whatever one thinks of the scheme as it exists in CPJ's head, it's hard to blame the scheme when the wrong player is blocked.
 
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techdad said:
There are two problems I have seen with the O line, I played O line in college, and they are quite different. First, when they are cut blocking they are not driving their legs through the block. It is more like a dive block and that won't do it. The biggest problem is that most defenses are sending 7-8 players at a time and 5 guys can't block that many defenders. I am amazed that Roof has not drilled it into CPJ's head that our opponents defenses has figured out the TO.. I see our offense having a hard time unless there is a little bit of diversification to the playbook which doesn't even exist.
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92, is that you?
 
floridajacket said:
The explanation isn't really that difficult: the OL in 2014 wasn't as good as people remember. AB and BB were two-deep with senior. There's the joke about Shaq Mason being the equivalent of five men, but Shaq Mason plus AB/BB seniors made the other four linemen look better than they really were.

After the 2014 Orange Bowl, CPJ said STTE of "Justin Thomas was really good and made many other people look better than they really were." Careful analysis of the OB tape shows some missed assignments and blown-up plays. Big passes and runs overcame that.

Then AB/BB became even worse than expected last year because of injuries. It was not like the three seniors on OL were always healthy either.

People also underestimate the effect of all of the pre-season hype and then easily going through the first two opponents. Then the team had the effect of "too much" effort, as CPJ called it. Many of players tried to do too much instead of what the play wanted them to do.
Click to expand...


I agree
 
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