Phil Steele

Everyone agrees we were a dumpster fire in 2015. I'm willing to entertain the idea that Navy would have likely beat us head to head last year. Now what? Does that mean we're doomed for this year? If what we did two years ago has no effect on last year, how does last year have any effect on this year?

optionqb said:
Comparable level of "veteran leadership"? Now you are grasping at straws. Georgia Tech has better raw athletes but that's merely an abstraction that must show up in concrete games or it's just unfulfilled potential. Bottom line: Keep Georgia Tech's defense from last year but replace the offense with Navy's and you got at least 3-4 more wins. The "apples to aardvarks" talk is nonsense.
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He's saying we had comparable levels of veteran leadership in 2014 that Navy did in 2015. It did show up as concrete in us getting 11 wins, much like it did in Navy last year getting however many wins they did. We absolutely didn't have a ton of veteran leadership last year, which is part of the reason we lost 9 games.
 
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Deke said:
Everyone agrees we were a dumpster fire in 2015. I'm willing to entertain the idea that Navy would have likely beat us head to head last year. Now what? Does that mean we're doomed for this year? If what we did two years ago has no effect on last year, how does last year have any effect on this year?



He's saying we had comparable levels of veteran leadership in 2014 that Navy did in 2015. It did show up as concrete in us getting 11 wins, much like it did in Navy last year getting however many wins they did. We absolutely didn't have a ton of veteran leadership last year, which is part of the reason we lost 9 games.
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Thank you.

optionqb, what are you arguing? That Navy was better than GT last year? No crap. We had our worst year in 20 and they had one of their best in 20. It doesn't mean we're doomed for the next 20. I've already explained to you my theory on why you can pretty much guarantee better OL execution from Navy on the year-to-year - more disciplined student-athletes and an annually weaker schedule top to bottom. Fact.

They played Pitt and ND better than we did last year - uh, yeah. They were good and very experienced and we were neither and beset with injuries to key players at various positions. Apples to aardvarks, sir, and if you can't see that we'll just end here.
 
In addition to beating Ole Miss who beat Bama who beat Clemson who beat FSU who beat South Florida, blah blah blah, Memphis also got run outta the bowl game by mighty Auburn 31-10 and dropped 4 of 5 games to end the season. Was it a good win for Navy? Sure. But so was our win over FSU. The difference is Navy also won 10 others games because they had ridiculous veteran leadership and a relatively soft schedule. We could play this game all day. I just so happen to have an office day today, so I'm down.
 
Pre season magazine predictions are as worthless and baseless as anything Benson posts. Every team 2-129 thinks their team should be higher. He cant put 100 teams in the top 25. Fact of the matter is we went 3-9 last year so right away there isn't a much chance to crack a pre season top 50. Anything from 60-80 is a good pre season ranking for a 3-9 acc team. Our history and recent success (2014) is the only thing that kept us out of the bottom 50
 
GTDGN04 said:
Thank you.

optionqb, what are you arguing? That Navy was better than GT last year? No crap. We had our worst year in 20 and they had one of their best in 20. It doesn't mean we're doomed for the next 20. I've already explained to you my theory on why you can pretty much guarantee better OL execution from Navy on the year-to-year - more disciplined student-athletes and an annually weaker schedule top to bottom. Fact.

They played Pitt and ND better than we did last year - uh, yeah. They were good and very experienced and we were neither and beset with injuries to key players at various positions. Apples to aardvarks, sir, and if you can't see that we'll just end here.
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So Navy was better than GT last year? That's not what you implied in your post. You seemed to say that Georgia Tech would have had the same (or close to the same) record with Navy's easy schedule (which I do not think is the case).

Navy has a weaker schedule than GT because they are generally a weaker team than GT...so it's a wash. Before Pitt played Navy in the bowl game, the Panthers had the advantage of both a) more practice time for an opponent, and b) the advantage of already playing the best flexbone option team (at least theoretically) in college football (namely GT).

Before Navy switched to the flexbone TO, they also had these "disciplined student-athletes" year in and year out. What happened? They typically got the crap kicked out of them year in and year out. The scheme fits their teams natural advantages. The offense should also fit Georgia Tech's natural advantages...a smarter, more disciplined student-athlete. Perhaps the lesson to be learned is that out of all the qualities that go into making this scheme successful, "discipline" is the most important, even more important than experience, raw athleticism, and toughness.
 
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optionqb said:
So Navy was better than GT last year? That's not what you implied in your post. You seemed to say that Georgia Tech would have had the same (or close to the same) record with Navy's easy schedule (which I do not think is the case).

Navy has a weaker schedule than GT because they are generally a weaker team than GT...so it's a wash. Before Pitt played Navy in the bowl game, the Panthers had the advantage of both a) more practice time for an opponent, and b) the advantage of already playing the best flexbone option team (at least theoretically) in college football (namely GT).

Before Navy switched to the flexbone TO, they also had these "disciplined student-athletes" year in and year out. What happened? They typically got the crap kicked out of them year in and year out. The scheme fits their teams natural advantages. The offense should also fit Georgia Tech's natural advantages...a smarter, more disciplined student-athlete. Perhaps the lesson to be learned is that out of all the qualities that go into making this scheme successful, "discipline" is the most important, even more important than experience, raw athleticism, and toughness.
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No, I did not imply GT would go 11-2 with Navy's schedule last year. I implied we'd have been better than 3-9 with more experience (i.e. some backs and receivers who were older than 18), and if we could have stayed healthier and not have been the most injured team I've seen at GT in my 25 years as a fan. I didn't imply at all that GT's 2015 schedule was tougher than Navy's and Navy's was weaker than GT's, it's a flat out fact - not an implication. Use any metric you want. That said, do I think Navy was the better team last year? Yes, I do. I think their experience/leadership and limited injuries served them well there. I would also wager their chemistry was light years better than our's as we lost some tremendous leaders from 2014 and had a ton of Fr. and Soph. on last year's team.

To your last paragraph, so what is your overall point? Is it that the option-based spread requires discipline? That is no revelation and I won't argue with you there. Our teams in 2008, 2009 and 2014 prove that point exponentially and even some of the teams we've had under PJ with average records churned out plenty of offensive efficiency to have more than 6 or 7 wins that year.
 
GTDGN04 said:
No, I did not imply GT would go 11-2 with Navy's schedule last year. I implied we'd have been better than 3-9 with more experience (i.e. some backs and receivers who were older than 18), and if we could have stayed healthier and not have been the most injured team I've seen at GT in my 25 years as a fan. I didn't imply at all that GT's 2015 schedule was tougher than Navy's and Navy's was weaker than GT's, it's a flat out fact - not an implication. Use any metric you want. That said, do I think Navy was the better team last year? Yes, I do. I think their experience/leadership and limited injuries served them well there. I would also wager their chemistry was light years better than our's as we lost some tremendous leaders from 2014 and had a ton of Fr. and Soph. on last year's team.

To your last paragraph, so what is your overall point? Is it that the option-based spread requires discipline? That is no revelation and I won't argue with you there. Our teams in 2008, 2009 and 2014 prove that point exponentially and even some of the teams we've had under PJ with average records churned out plenty of offensive efficiency to have more than 6 or 7 wins that year.
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My main point is that the teams you called "crappy" aren't crappy relative to Navy. In fact, year after year they are typically superior to Navy in every physical quality relevant to having a good football team. They are often superior in many intangible qualities with the exceptions of discipline and self-sacrifice. Apparently this "crappy schedule" means you have to be contemptuous of their achievements (even sneering at them for beating teams like Pitt and Memphis that were substantially more talented athletically). I'm really baffled by your contempt for their win over Pitt in the Bowl game (for reasons I cited above).
 
If we get the same blocking performance from the A-backs and offensive line like last year, there will be some pretty bad howling.
 
optionqb said:
My main point is that the teams you called "crappy" aren't crappy relative to Navy. In fact, year after year they are typically superior to Navy in every physical quality relevant to having a good football team. They are often superior in many intangible qualities with the exceptions of discipline and self-sacrifice. Apparently this "crappy schedule" means you have to be contemptuous of their achievements (even sneering at them for beating teams like Pitt and Memphis that were substantially more talented athletically). I'm really baffled by your contempt for their win over Pitt in the Bowl game (for reasons I cited above).
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LOL, "contempt"? Calm down, kinda dramatic. I love the Middies and what the academy stands for and I always pull for them due to the the factors listed previously in addition to the offensive style.

I was just ribbing the, "Navy can do it, why can't we?!" crowd as it pertains to consistency in execution of the offense. Navy had an awesome year in 2015 (I would guess its best since the PJ era or even better) and that was a solid bowl win. But let's not act like a bowl win over Pitt from a senior-laden team the same year GT is one of the youngest and most injured teams in the nation and slumping to a 3-9 records means Navy is the overall better spread option program and Ken N. is better than PJ and the weather is prettier in Annapolis than ATL and the women are hotter up there and the food tastes better.

GT's offense has put up pretty amazing numbers most every year under PJ, has won 11 games twice, been to the Orange Bowl twice, beat a superior-talented UGA team twice, won the ACC once. Our offense is in fine hands with PJ and I predict we'll see a nice uptick this year with another year experience if we can avoid a bazillion injuries. The most frustrating thing, I will agree, is the inconsistency and/or downright poor OL play we see often. This is an area Navy will always...ALWAYS...have the advantage. They win vs. us in the discipline dept. 10 times out of 10 and twice on Saturdays.
 
Steele's book is actually insightful compared to the other masters of the obvious who do preseason magazines. Problem with Steele is, microfiche-sized type so that he can spend thousands and thousands of words on Trumpian self-congratulations over what he got right last year. Also, every other word is an odd abbreviation of his own making that you have to flip back to his special page to decipher. ("Smith ld ACC-Cstl in 4QHKO"= "Smith led ACC Coastal in helmet knocked off during the fourth quarter. See HKO national rankings, p.765.") When the Phil Steele Decoder Ring is released, I may pick up a copy.
 
Please someone make it stop!!!!!!!

We have gone from a school expecting to beat ugag, bama, ut, uf, au
to losing to ugag, vt, um, puke, unc
to comparing our team to Navy
to hoping to get in bowl games that teams with losing records get in

Yes sir, easy to see why new fans would line up for tickets
 
texstinger said:
Please someone make it stop!!!!!!!

We have gone from a school expecting to beat ugag, bama, ut, uf, au
to losing to ugag, vt, um, puke, unc
to comparing our team to Navy
to hoping to get in bowl games that teams with losing records get in

Yes sir, easy to see why new fans would line up for tickets
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A lot of öööö can happen in sixty years.
 
texstinger said:
Please someone make it stop!!!!!!!

We have gone from a school expecting to beat ugag, bama, ut, uf, au
to losing to ugag, vt, um, puke, unc
to comparing our team to Navy
to hoping to get in bowl games that teams with losing records get in

Yes sir, easy to see why new fans would line up for tickets
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In which parallel universe did you EVER expect to beat teams like UGA, BAMA, UT, UF, and AU with any regularity?
 
GTDGN04 said:
LOL, "contempt"? Calm down, kinda dramatic. I love the Middies and what the academy stands for and I always pull for them due to the the factors listed previously in addition to the offensive style.

I was just ribbing the, "Navy can do it, why can't we?!" crowd as it pertains to consistency in execution of the offense. Navy had an awesome year in 2015 (I would guess its best since the PJ era or even better) and that was a solid bowl win. But let's not act like a bowl win over Pitt from a senior-laden team the same year GT is one of the youngest and most injured teams in the nation and slumping to a 3-9 records means Navy is the overall better spread option program and Ken N. is better than PJ and the weather is prettier in Annapolis than ATL and the women are hotter up there and the food tastes better.

GT's offense has put up pretty amazing numbers most every year under PJ, has won 11 games twice, been to the Orange Bowl twice, beat a superior-talented UGA team twice, won the ACC once. Our offense is in fine hands with PJ and I predict we'll see a nice uptick this year with another year experience if we can avoid a bazillion injuries. The most frustrating thing, I will agree, is the inconsistency and/or downright poor OL play we see often. This is an area Navy will always...ALWAYS...have the advantage. They win vs. us in the discipline dept. 10 times out of 10 and twice on Saturdays.
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By CPJ's own admission the offensive line has sucked for five years, including 2014. What makes you think it will be substantially better after losing 4 out of 5 starters and retaining the OL coach? The record will improve, but that is more of a result of a more favorable schedule. What I notice is that our OL gets blown off the ball or dives at ankles. That has been a terminal problem. Justin has zero chance, so all the excuses about being young at the skill positions are moot when they can't get started. Navy has even more recruiting restrictions than us and simply execute better. Why can't CPJ instill that execution like he used to?
 
Navy runs this offense much better than GT. Quicker reads, plays are more downhill than sideways.
 
optionqb said:
In which parallel universe did you EVER expect to beat teams like UGA, BAMA, UT, UF, and AU with any regularity?
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Let's get a couple of things straight Optionqb. Fwiw you bring up some decent points, but overall you are lost.

1) GT would have had equal if not better success with Navys schedule. We would be the temples, memphis, uconns all day everyday. Houston would have probably shredded us, but definitely would have been front runners in the aac.

2) Injuries wouldn't have been as ridiculous in the aac because these teams just plain out aren't as physical as Notre dame, clemson, uga etc.

3) Navy runs a different offense because their personnel is different. A lot of the quick read plays and quarterback keepers just would not work in the ACC. Completely different athletes, lower level of competition, and coach with different philosophies.

4) we absolutely should be expected to beat the (fill In the blank)'s of the world. Think of recent victories. Fsu, uga, UM, miss st, clemson, etc.
 
ramblinwise1 said:
Navy runs this offense much better than GT. Quicker reads, plays are more downhill than sideways.
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Honest question and would appreciate an honest answer.

How "downhill" do you think the average Navy team (not the 2015 version with 20 of 22 Sr. starters) would look against Clemson, FSU, UGA, etc.? You think their OL would have those front 7s flummoxed all day?
 
GTDGN04 said:
Honest question and would appreciate an honest answer.

How "downhill" do you think the average Navy team (not the 2015 version with 20 of 22 Sr. starters) would look against Clemson, FSU, UGA, etc.? You think their OL would have those front 7s flummoxed all day?
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Yep
 
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