Phil Steele

jacket67

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I was here in the 50ties when we did quite regularly.
College football in the 1950s was a parallel universe where southern colleges were segregated. Teams in the South would not play teams from the North unless they agreed not to play any black players. The names of the colleges are the same, but nothing else from that period is of any relevance to the competition today.
 
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coit

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College football in the 1950s was was a parallel universe where southern colleges were segregated. Teams in the South would not play teams from the North unless they agreed not to play any black players. The names of the colleges are the same, but nothing else from that period is of any relevance to the competition today.
Boom. @jacket67 jist dropped a reality bomb on all y'all.
 

18in32

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College football in the 1950s was a parallel universe where southern colleges were segregated. Teams in the South would not play teams from the North unless they agreed not to play any black players. The names of the colleges are the same, but nothing else from that period is of any relevance to the competition today.
This does not compute.

There has been a perception (at least internally) that GT's unique curriculum and entrance requirements made it a tougher place to recruit football players -- since long before integration.

Sadly, if you want integration to be an excuse for why we've gone downhill thereafter, you have to be willing to make some racist arguments.

I am an extremely admirable person who declines to do so.
 

GoldZ

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This does not compute.

There has been a perception (at least internally) that GT's unique curriculum and entrance requirements made it a tougher place to recruit football players -- since long before integration.

Sadly, if you want integration to be an excuse for why we've gone downhill thereafter, you have to be willing to make some racist arguments.

I am an extremely admirable person who declines to do so.
What's racist about pointing out historical facts? Yes we were at a disadvantage before integration, and yes we were at a far greater disadvantage when a tsunami of superior talent became available yet were ill prepared for Tech academics.
 

GoldZ

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Boom. @jacket67 jist dropped a reality bomb on all y'all.
Agree with both '67 and FOBD. Yes, CFB is vastly different today than in the 50's, but the teams referenced were powers back then too, and yes we did have expectations of beating them. Both CFB and our expectations have changed a great deal, and so has Tech which influences said expectations.
 

jacket67

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Sadly, if you want integration to be an excuse for why we've gone downhill thereafter, you have to be willing to make some racist arguments.
I was not using integration as an "excuse" for Tech's decline. I'm just saying that college football has changed so dramatically since the 50s that it is nonsense to think that success at that time would be relevant to competing in the current NCAA. I don't know how many college programs there were in the 50s, but I'm sure the number has doubled or tripled, and the number of players has increased accordingly. The revenue from TV and licensing has gone up astronomically, along with salaries for coaches and the value of NFL contracts. Using the 50s as a yardstick for success is the same as suggesting that the big three TV networks from the 50s should try to return to the 30% share of prime time viewers they had in the early days of television.
 

floridajacket

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Uh, in 2014, Navy lost to Western Kentucky and Rutgers. In 2013, Navy also lost to Western Kentucky. In 2012, Navy lost to Troy. Quickly looking up SOS rankings in 2015, Navy's SOS was ranked by Sagarin at #78 while our SOS was #14.

Basically, I don't get the Navy envy. It's not based in reality.

One thing to remember too is the service academy's have massive football teams, because every student must play a sport and every student is already on scholarship. So, while having less talent, Navy's two-deep will always be loaded with veterans because they have so many damn players. Then they run it against lesser competition and it looks more fluid.
 

floridajacket

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Honest question and would appreciate an honest answer.

How "downhill" do you think the average Navy team (not the 2015 version with 20 of 22 Sr. starters) would look against Clemson, FSU, UGA, etc.? You think their OL would have those front 7s flummoxed all day?
I remember reading in 2009 that for similar plays from Navy and GT, GT reached the line of scrimmage sooner as you would expect with faster players. It looks slower compared to the defense's speed.
 

GTDGN04

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Uh, in 2014, Navy lost to Western Kentucky and Rutgers. In 2013, Navy also lost to Western Kentucky. In 2012, Navy lost to Troy. Quickly looking up SOS rankings in 2015, Navy's SOS was ranked by Sagarin at #78 while our SOS was #14.

Basically, I don't get the Navy envy. It's not based in reality.

One thing to remember too is the service academy's have massive football teams, because every student must play a sport and every student is already on scholarship. So, while having less talent, Navy's two-deep will always be loaded with veterans because they have so many damn players. Then they run it against lesser competition and it looks more fluid.
(GASP!)

 

Dougherty Jacket

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Boom. @jacket67 jist dropped a reality bomb on all y'all.
Georgia Tech played Pitt during the 1950s and they had a black player. Beat them too. The Georgia Tech president was Blake Ragsdale Van Leer who was under tremendous pressure to not play in the bowl game but stated "I have never broken a contract in my life" Tech played black player or no. I think it was the Gator Bowl but may be mistaken on that. Bear Bryant said that Sam "Bam" Cunningham the Southern Cal fullback that ran wild against Alabama in the late 1960s did more to integrate football in the south than anybody. After the game, he brought Cunningham into the Alabama locker room and announced " Gentlemen, this is what a football player looks like"
 

saxondawg

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One thing Steele does pay a lot of attention to is close wins/losses as an indicator of reversing a season's record in either direction. GT lost five games by 7 or less (and one by 8 @Notre Dame). Figure that in with the freakish injury toll by midseason, and it makes 2015 a very strong outlier. One thing I believe happened was that the loss in South Bend made Duke, the next week, into a trap game. You don't want to play on the road against #20 as a trap game. Those two weeks--again, taken with the injuries--made a huge negative impact on the season. I'm not up on your best positions and all that, but it's reasonable to expect a rebound this year with a better schedule, better health, and more experienced backs who can block on the perimeter (big problem last year).
 

GTDGN04

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One thing Steele does pay a lot of attention to is close wins/losses as an indicator of reversing a season's record in either direction. GT lost five games by 7 or less (and one by 8 @Notre Dame). Figure that in with the freakish injury toll by midseason, and it makes 2015 a very strong outlier. One thing I believe happened was that the loss in South Bend made Duke, the next week, into a trap game. You don't want to play on the road against #20 as a trap game. Those two weeks--again, taken with the injuries--made a huge negative impact on the season. I'm not up on your best positions and all that, but it's reasonable to expect a rebound this year with a better schedule, better health, and more experienced backs who can block on the perimeter (big problem last year).
Good call. I remember one of the first Steele publications I purchased was in 1995 and he had a very similar sentiment regarding a bounceback for GT's 1-10 team in 1994. He noted several of those close losses and how the team just lost chemistry, confidence and fell apart. He predicted a better than .500 record in '95. GT went on to go 6-5 that year and were two brutal end-of-game losses to Arizona and UGA away from going 8-3.
 

FatJacket

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Yep you agree with me or yep you think Navy would be rolling defenses weekly in the ACC, even without a record-setting QB and one of the most experienced teams in college football?
those front 7s flummoxed all day
 

coit

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Phil Steele on Buck and Kincade right now.

Says GT will be the #4 most improved team this year. Key will be improvement in QB play and maturing of BBs and ABs over last year.
 
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