Is it Roof, or the players?

BeerNutts

BeerNutts

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tl;dr, we need to recruit better defensive players, especially D-linemen.

Everyone on here complains about our defense, and rightfully so, it stinks. Many people want to blame Roof for the issues, and there might be some merit to that, but I think it has more to do with out players than the scheme.

When CPJ started, we had Dave Wommack, and our defenses sucked. So, we fired Wommack, he resurfaces at Ole miss, and the last few years, ole miss' defense was lights out (OK, not this year, they don't have the same players).

We bring in Al Groh, who was supposed to be a Defensive Wiz, and our defenses sucked. We fired Groh, and he retired.

We bring in Roof, who did well at Penn State the year he was there (2nd in scoring defense in big Ten, 16th scoring defense nationally), and our defense sucks.

The common thread here is, no matter the Def. Coordinator, our defenses have sucked. Now, within those years, what stud defensive players have we had? I can name a few. Attaochu, Burnett, Gotsis, Michael Johnson, Derrick Morgan, DJ White. Of these under CPJ (2008 -), Johnson played 1 year at GT (probably our best defensive year), Morgan and Burnett 2, and only Attochu, Gotsis and DJ were recruited under CPJ.

So, IMO, bottom line, we need to recruit better defensive players. Our DL sucks right now. Our best DL player, Pat Gamble, wouldn't start on 3/4 of the SEC teams, maybe worse than that. The other guys probably wouldn't start on any SEC team, and most ACC teams.

IMO, Roof's a good recruiter, so we keep him, but we have to recruit better over all. Changing DC never seems to work, we just need better players, period, and that's on the whole staff, not just Roof.
 
BeerNutts said:
The common thread here is, no matter the Def. Coordinator, our defenses have sucked.
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Correct. Something has to change besides the DC. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is something bad.

Recruiting better always helps, and apparently Roof is doing a good job of it. Results on the field will always lag improved recruiting.
 
I would like to see what one elite defensive lineman would do for our defense. There are a lot of other issues, but come on man, can't we just have one?
 
If you don't have a DT that can demand a double team, you are really going to struggle to get a pass rush.
 
From what they said on TV, Gamble was battling the flu in the Duke game. He wasn't nearly his usual self.

We'll aee how things play out against unc and vt.
 
BeerNutts said:
tl;dr, we need to recruit better defensive players, especially D-linemen.

Everyone on here complains about our defense, and rightfully so, it stinks. Many people want to blame Roof for the issues, and there might be some merit to that, but I think it has more to do with out players than the scheme.

When CPJ started, we had Dave Wommack, and our defenses sucked. So, we fired Wommack, he resurfaces at Ole miss, and the last few years, ole miss' defense was lights out (OK, not this year, they don't have the same players).

We bring in Al Groh, who was supposed to be a Defensive Wiz, and our defenses sucked. We fired Groh, and he retired.

We bring in Roof, who did well at Penn State the year he was there (2nd in scoring defense in big Ten, 16th scoring defense nationally), and our defense sucks.

The common thread here is, no matter the Def. Coordinator, our defenses have sucked. Now, within those years, what stud defensive players have we had? I can name a few. Attaochu, Burnett, Gotsis, Michael Johnson, Derrick Morgan, DJ White. Of these under CPJ (2008 -), Johnson played 1 year at GT (probably our best defensive year), Morgan and Burnett 2, and only Attochu, Gotsis and DJ were recruited under CPJ.

So, IMO, bottom line, we need to recruit better defensive players. Our DL sucks right now. Our best DL player, Pat Gamble, wouldn't start on 3/4 of the SEC teams, maybe worse than that. The other guys probably wouldn't start on any SEC team, and most ACC teams.

IMO, Roof's a good recruiter, so we keep him, but we have to recruit better over all. Changing DC never seems to work, we just need better players, period, and that's on the whole staff, not just Roof.
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It is both.
 
coit said:
If you don't have a DT that can demand a double team, you are really going to struggle to get a pass rush.
Click to expand...

Sad thing is, it probably could/should be #90, but CPJ and Co are apparently not happy with his level of conditioning.
 
BeerNutts said:
tl;dr, we need to recruit better defensive players, especially D-linemen.

Everyone on here complains about our defense, and rightfully so, it stinks. Many people want to blame Roof for the issues, and there might be some merit to that, but I think it has more to do with out players than the scheme.

When CPJ started, we had Dave Wommack, and our defenses sucked. So, we fired Wommack, he resurfaces at Ole miss, and the last few years, ole miss' defense was lights out (OK, not this year, they don't have the same players).

We bring in Al Groh, who was supposed to be a Defensive Wiz, and our defenses sucked. We fired Groh, and he retired.

We bring in Roof, who did well at Penn State the year he was there (2nd in scoring defense in big Ten, 16th scoring defense nationally), and our defense sucks.

The common thread here is, no matter the Def. Coordinator, our defenses have sucked. Now, within those years, what stud defensive players have we had? I can name a few. Attaochu, Burnett, Gotsis, Michael Johnson, Derrick Morgan, DJ White. Of these under CPJ (2008 -), Johnson played 1 year at GT (probably our best defensive year), Morgan and Burnett 2, and only Attochu, Gotsis and DJ were recruited under CPJ.

So, IMO, bottom line, we need to recruit better defensive players. Our DL sucks right now. Our best DL player, Pat Gamble, wouldn't start on 3/4 of the SEC teams, maybe worse than that. The other guys probably wouldn't start on any SEC team, and most ACC teams.

IMO, Roof's a good recruiter, so we keep him, but we have to recruit better over all. Changing DC never seems to work, we just need better players, period, and that's on the whole staff, not just Roof.
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I agree with you 100% that adding a higher caliber DL would make a big difference. I'm not sure if I understand your point in tying this missing element to CPJ. Are you suggesting that he has somehow impacted our ability to recruit DLinemen?

To be honest, beastly DL have been few and far between at Tech for some time now. Even the best defensive line in recent memory (the one CPJ inherited when he took over) didn't include highly-recruited guys on the interior.

From a recruiting perspective, Richard and V. Walker were winning lottery tickets, as I recall.

Morgan and MJ were more highly regarded, but I even think MJ was scouted by most to be a TE.


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WracerX said:
From what they said on TV, Gamble was battling the flu in the Duke game. He wasn't nearly his usual self.

We'll aee how things play out against unc and vt.
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Hopefully having him 100% and PJ Davis back will help things.
 
GoldSox said:
I'm not sure if I understand your point in tying this missing element to CPJ. Are you suggesting that he has somehow impacted our ability to recruit DLinemen?
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I was only limiting the discussion to CPJ era, nothing more. Guess I should've been more clearer.
 
Do not know if it matters, but if memory is correct, Attochu was a recruit brought to Tech when Al Groh became the DC. Recall he was headed to UVA.... Maybe CPJ did recruit him, but did not "get" him (unless there were alternative motives to bring CAG).
 
Well your comparison to SEC defenses is confusing, but ignoring that, yeah our DL hasn't been good since '08. And lo and behold our defenses haven't been that good since '08, although I admit I thought we were turning a bit of a corner until watching Duke move that ball at will with UNC/VT looming. Our DT recruiting in particular has been among the worst in the conference the last decade. We've picked up a few decent DEs over that span, but not enough. We have a few higher profile, younger guys on the roster that would pan out on the line. But overall I'm guessing we are among the bottom of the ACC in sacks per play in the 8+ seasons CPJ has been here. Morgan and Attaochu are the only two guys we've had in that entire span that could create pressure by themselves consistently.

I've said on here many time before, if you give CPJ an above-average DL over the time he's had here we'd be averaging ~10 wins per season and have a few more flirtations with NCG/playoff scenarios. And he'd probably be over .500 against UGA. That '09 game sticks out in particular. We outmatched them all over the field except their interior OL against our DTs where they had us dominated. And they just ran up the middle all night. Throw a few decent DTs into that game and we win by 20+, finish 11-1, and are in the discussion.
 
Recruiting problems are not limited to the defense...Tech needs to figure out how to remarket itself to athletes.
 
gtrower said:
I've said on here many time before, if you give CPJ an above-average DL over the time he's had here we'd be averaging ~10 wins per season and have a few more flirtations with NCG/playoff scenarios. And he'd probably be over .500 against UGA. That '09 game sticks out in particular. We outmatched them all over the field except their interior OL against our DTs where they had us dominated. And they just ran up the middle all night. Throw a few decent DTs into that game and we win by 20+, finish 11-1, and are in the discussion.
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I firmly believe we'd have been in the NC hunt in both 2009 and 2014 with nothing more than 1 NFL-caliber DE and 1 NFL-caliber DT added to our roster. We were absolutely unstoppable in 2014 - with even 1 more defensive stop per game, we are 12-1 at worst after the ACCCG.
 
Go4Tech said:
Do not know if it matters, but if memory is correct, Attochu was a recruit brought to Tech when Al Groh became the DC. Recall he was headed to UVA.... Maybe CPJ did recruit him, but did not "get" him (unless there were alternative motives to bring CAG).
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Correct. And Gotsis was a "referral". Been a long, long time since we landed a stud front 7 guy not counting how the 2 recent classes turn out.
 
DC recruits the players and coaches up the players. If we don't have the players, then who is at fault? We should give him time to get his players I suppose, but saying it's the players is not much of an argument when in fact two of the coach's main responsibilities are recruiting players and developing players.
 
JoeCakeEater said:
DC recruits the players and coaches up the players. If we don't have the players, then who is at fault? We should give him time to get his players I suppose, but saying it's the players is not much of an argument when in fact two of the coach's main responsibilities are recruiting players and developing players.
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How many 4th and 5th year guys do you think we should have on our 2 deep?

How many 4th and 5th year guys do we actually have on our 2 deep?
 
I was at the game Saturday and it was obvious..we're small but make up for it by being slow.
 
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