Two things

T

techfowl

Jolly Good Fellow
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
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1. What is the scoop on Venice Gilliam?

2. There is a big difference between shooting hoops against a 19 year old and having a 30 year old man lay the wood to him on a football field.

If you think Chris Clemons from UGA is a sad story leaving early, then watch this fiasco.

I understand you can't stop a person from making a living, but it's a real shame for a lot of people that this NFL law came about. You can't save a stupid person from himself, but we just gave up one of the small ways that could have helped.

Although it will be good for about one person every two or three years, it will be a real shame for quite a few every year.
 
I agree on #2 techfowl, hopefully the coaches will be accurate in assessing who is or is not NFL material at the time. I hope these players will consult their coach before leaving. For those that are not ready yet, well hopefully they will believe their coach and wait atleast another year.
 
I agree too. This law is a sad thing for the NFL and kids from around the country.
 
FHstinger agrees, also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/readthis.gif
 
It isn\'t a sad thing for the kids that make it.

The crazy amount of true freshmen who move up and star in the college game is an indication of progress in HS weight training and on-the-field competition.

While it is a little far fetched for us older guys to comprehend, I do think that guys like this Willie 'criminal' Williams are only one year's development or less away from NFL level.

What year was Lavar Arrington? He was playing at an NFL level his last year.
 
I don't think that you will see alot of younger guys going pro. The other thing that makes the NFL different from the NBA or MLB is that the money is not guaranteed. Even if you get signed, you still do not get paid unless you make the team. I think that there will be maybe one or two guys every four years that the rule change will effect.
 
Upward Pressure will cause big changes

Availability to go pro will change a lot. It may take ten years but it will happen. Kids will work harder and earlier to get physically ready to play in the pros. Initially we'll see a lot more "sophomores" going early, particularly if they've had a great year. Then it'll eventually trickle down to freshman and high schoolers (who'll end up in NFL Europe or on development squads).

It took some 20 years between Moses Malone and the recent crop of basketball high schoolers going pro. In football, it'll happen too. Admittedly however the physical tools required are much more enormous than in basketball. But it's hard to deny the fact that trickle down pressure won't occur. It will and the game will eventually suffer (the NFL too).

The saddest thing is that this "Tiger effect" is going to return larger numbers of kids to academic disinterest. To play pro football they almost had to go to college before and the NCAA rules of the last 20 years encouraged academic progress. Not anymore (and a good argument for some on why the NFL rule should have changed).
 
Very interesting angle that I had not thought of..

How many more great high school football players will blow off academics because they think they can play in the big leagues?

Remember, these are the same kids who totally ignore the depth chart and go to Miami anyway because they are positive they can start as a freshman.

Who wants to bet that at the very least these JUCO all-Americans go pro at a much higher rate. And I'll be shocked if a few pro scouts don't make it to the Hargrove Academy games...
 
I disagree.....

I think this could have a scholastic effect on the whole system. The reality is that MANY are treating college as a weigh station with dreams of the NFL.

College should be about college. It is a disgrace what is going on at Colorado. How bout WW getting arrested 10 times since '99. How does someone get a scholarship offer when they are on felony probation. Miami should be ashamed of themselves. I am all for giving a kid a 2nd chance BUT A 13TH CHANCE?

The fact that these kids are coming in bigger, stronger, and faster means that college is not a must. Kiper says Clarett will go in the late 1st or early 2nd. Well good for him and if he gets his life straight then he will have proven the point.

The NFL can hire babysitters for these people just like they do for Ray Lewis and the rest of the possi.

College should not be a reformatory school. It is a mockery to all those who have worked hard to obtain a degree.
 
Re: I disagree.....

First off, you said a second chance is okay. Then why did you use Ray Lewis as an example? I suspect you really know nothing about him.

Regarding WW, I agree that he is a black mark for college athletics. But in fairness, is he any worse than a fraternity brother that overfeeds booze to a young coed or recruit. Both stories happen occassionally and both will end in tragic ways. But they are no different from the masses out there. With hundreds of millions of people, there are plenty of losers to find fault.

More importantly, I believe that college is just about good for everyone. I also believe that a major university like Tech recruits students with certain skills to have around campus. It just so happens that math and analytical skills are the first want by Tech. But why can't football skills be on their list?

Tech's job is not to look good in the US News rankings. It's to prepare students/graduates to go out and be successful. I happen to believe that if Tech takes a kid and makes him a professional football player then she's done her job just as much as the highest paid computer engineer.

I also believe that the computer engineer that flunks out after one year is probably still better off (having had that one year). So yes, I generally do believe that as many kids as possible should get to see college. And I think that's a good thing for them and the rest of us no matter how bad some of the stories might sound.

Now as an aside, I think there are always cultural issues that each school has to decide on. Generally speaking, Dodd, Rice, O'Leary, Braine, Gailey et al, did a good job of bringing "Tech folks" to campus. I am happy with that as an alum. If Miami alums are happy with WW then that is their prerogative. It is not my bother.

One last thing, I do believe there were plenty of us at Tech that "treated college as a weigh station to the NFL (insert job here)".
 
what about the National Hockey League?

those guys draft teenagers and you have 6'6", 250+ lbs guys on ice skates zooming 30 mph and crashing into each other.

sounds like a rough thing to do. something similar to football.

once again, if the NFL feels that a 19 yr old cannot compete, don't draft the guy.

i'd like to see a minor league system for the NFL. much like pro baseball. the college game should not be made to serve as a minor league system for the NFL.
 
I\'d like to add

I think the real measure for colleges should be how well they do with the football recruit that does not play in the NFL (regardless of how long on campus). Unfortunately society only knows how to measure "how many graduate", etc. But the real measure should be how many are better off or better prepared versus what they would have had without college. I don't hear too many horror stories about former athletes and I believe Tech is doing pretty well on this measure.
 
Another excellent point.

If you can play NHL hockey straight out of high school you can play WR or DB (at the very least) in the NFL at 18 IMHO.

I am a little confused by your post Law. I read MidAtl's post as saying that the real dummies will never see the classroom. Before they had a lot of incentive, but now they have far less.

If you are saying that the schools will now have more qualified students playing football, I agree. What are the odds that the 'B-list' player that Miami would have awarded the scholarship given to Willie Williams is actually dumber than Willie?
 
Re: what about the National Hockey League?

Good points as always, Ylojk8,

The problem is that once a kid declares himself eligable, he is no longer eligable for the scholarship that would have paid for his education, whether he's drafted or not.

The NFL won't draft many of them and that's the point. Many who could have grown up and been men without football after college will become Al Bundy just because they declared in the first place.

As GTCrew said, it won't be sad for those that make it, I just hate it for the overconfident punks that will never have the opportunity to grow out of overconfident punkdom because they missed the social and academic environment football would have paid for - or because they believed what an agent told them.

Not that these kids couldn't find another way to college. It's just that many won't. I'm not sure I would have without some great people surrounding me.

We've all been where these kids are at some point. At some point we have all seen a pot of gold that we know probably won't pan out, but that we want to belive so bad that we make a bad decision. Whether it's girls, sports, business - we've all been there.

The older you get, the more you figure out that busting your tail is the only way to get 99% of anything of value, monetarily or emotionally. The older you get, the less you live in fantasy world.

If we can make an 18 year old kid think he will be THE ONE out of TEN that SURVIVES storming a beach in Normandy, we sure can make a kid with no education remain without an education on the hope or belief that he's "the man".

If grown people can really belive the chance of winning the lottery is better than millions to one, then high school kids will crap away their future on a *slightly* higher chance.

It's not what you can do - it's what you realize you can do. We have all seen the difference between a freshman and a senior in college. It's night and day.

The same guy could make a horrible decision or a well thought out one, depending on who he has been influenced by. The same kid who needs to go straight to jail could be the same kid that is set to succeed in life after four years under a Willingham or a Paterno.

Not really disagreeing with anyone here, just stating that I wish that law had never been passed. It all gets back to the way it should be vs. the way it is.

It is what it is. It's not changing. Many will profit, but more will not.
 
what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

1. Lewis admitted that he lied to the police during an investigation of a double homicide where Jacinta Baker, 21, and Richard Lollar, 24 were stabbed to death.

2. In December before the superbowl, he was accused of punching a woman in a Baltimore bar and then leaving the scene. The alleged victim, Katrice Sherree Parker, filed a criminal complaint.

3. At Miami, Lewis's best friend, Hurricanes linebacker Marlin Barnes, was beaten to death in an off-campus apartment in 1996. Barnes' girlfriend also was killed.

I guess you can say that he is the VICTIM of coincidence however my experience leads me draw different conclusions.


how bout this little gem?

[ QUOTE ]
We're told Ravens LB Ray Lewis -- who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor obstruction-of-justice charge in exchange for having a double-murder charge against him dropped in Atlanta -- made a big impact as a surprise attendee at the NFL's annual rookie symposium. But more than a few jaws dropped when he told his captive audience that he wasn't ready to give up his limo lifestyle.



[/ QUOTE ]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/pfw/20000712whispers.html

[ QUOTE ]
Two women are suing Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis for $6 million, claiming he struck them during a brawl in a crowded bar last year. The women, Catrice Parker and Ericka Ury, accused Lewis of assault and battery and inflicting emotional distress and are seeking $2 million on each count. The lawsuit was filed Wednesday in Baltimore County Circuit Court, according to Dwight Pettit, the women's attorney. Lewis' associate, Eric Carter, also was named in the lawsuit.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news/ap/20001130/ap-ravens-lewisaccused.html

[ QUOTE ]


Ray Lewis handled media day in the same fashion in which he plays football: confident, defiant and always in control. He chuckled at some questions, especially those about his tattoos, and made eye contact with almost everyone who cast a query in his direction. He danced around some of the questions regarding his ordeal in Atlanta and answered some directly, although no new ground was broken. ``The real truth is this was never about those two kids that were dead in the street. This is about Ray Lewis, and that's not right,'' he said. ``Don't be mad at me. The person to be mad at is (prosecutor) Paul Howard, the mayor of Atlanta, the people who never said one time we're going to find out who killed these people. They said we're going to get Ray Lewis.'' Then, Lewis tried to change the subject. ``We need to go somewhere else,'' he said.



[/ QUOTE ]
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news/ap/20010124/ap-superbowl-ravens.html


I am sure I can find MANY more if you still think this guy is 2nd chance candidate. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/boom.gif
 
Always look on the bright side. For every...

prima donna who declares pro and ends up a drain on society an overachiever will end up at the big state school instead of division 2 and a kid who otherwise wouldn't have gotten a chance will get a scholly to div 2.

IMHO, all three of these guys deserve what they get.
 
Re: Always look on the bright side. For every...

Agree. Good post.

We all get what we earn.
 
True, but...

At the risk of starting an argument about how much money unpaid players make for their schools, consider this:

There are a good number of athletic programs that are barely remaining afloat financially. If the best players from D1-A go to the NFL and are replaced by players that would have previously gone to D1-AA, the level of play has been lessened. The D1-AA players are then replaced by DII players, and the level of play is lessened, and so on, down the line.

If D1-A school X is making $Y in revenue on a product at level 9 out of 10, they will make a certain amount less on a product at level 8 or 8.5 out of 10. And again, on down the line.

Therein lies the problem with the theory that players will rise to 'replace' early NFL entrants. Instead, the level of play will fall to compensate for the lack of 'star power,' which tends to bring in the big bucks. Those big bucks are very necessary to keep college football around as we know it.

So, 'all three' of the guys in your example DO indeed DESERVE what they might get, but unfortunately just because they deserve it doesn't mean the money will be there to fund the football programs that will give them that chance.
 
There just won\'t be that many IMO

Every year there are something like 2000 kids signed to D-1 scholarships. Just how many do we think are going to go pro early? And how much money do you think college basketball has lost due to players leaving early?

There will be some kids who give it a shot. But there are only so many roster slots in the pros and no guaranteed contracts like in the NBA. It's a whole different world.
 
Re: There just won\'t be that many IMO

I dont wish harm upon anyone, but I hope the NFL LBs (even the ones I dont like) find Clarrett, and find him good. I hope he comes crying back saying these guys are too good for me. And by the way, TA McLendon was by far a better back at the same time people were in awe of this chump. Ill take TA any day of the week. Atleast here you get a good back and not an attitude to go with it.
 
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