Adams ousting and Dooley politics

techfowl

Jolly Good Fellow
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Dooley instigated all of this and it erks me that, after he got all of this started and keeps adding fuel to the fire - he then (fingers crossed) calls for an end to the unplasantries.

Anyway - I don't think the UGA folks realize just how bad all this looks to the outside world. In fact, most seem to be proud of the fact that all this is going on - almost a "We ain't gonna take crap off no outsider," kind of thing.

They need to get their affairs in order quickly - it's a circus over there.
 
Originally posted by techfowl:

Anyway - I don't think the UGA folks realize just how bad all this looks to the outside world. In fact, most seem to be proud of the fact that all this is going on - almost a "We ain't gonna take crap off no outsider," kind of thing.

They need to get their affairs in order quickly - it's a circus over there.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Trust me Tech... these UGAg folks don't have a clue. They are just going to continue ripping their university apart while Emory and Tech continues to improve. Your personal assessment of UGAg being a 'circus' is putting it mildly.

BuzzB
 
What amazes me is how Tech has some of the top engineering programs in the nation, a business school that used to (don't know anymore) "rank" closely to UGA's bread & butter Terry College for undergrad, and somehow they are considered only nine spots behind us among public universities. I don't know if they have any programs considered top 5 in the nation. Maybe b/c their programs compete with Ivy league colleges...dunno. The classes my friends took there compared to mine at GT were a complete joke.

Anyhow, the injuries they are suffering are only helping us for the big game after Thanksgiving. Hopefully Tenuta can put pressure on Greene...
 
Their school of education is highly ranked, and so is their classics dept. (for a dept. without a Ph.D. program.)
 
Originally posted by bellyseries:
Their school of education is highly ranked, and so is their classics dept. (for a dept. without a Ph.D. program.)
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Belly:

I have a theory but no way to substantiate it. I'm truly interested in the opinions of the board members on this issue.

My theory is that the UGA Education Dept may be a large part of the problem in terms of why our Georgia secondary schools perform and are ranked so poorly nationally. I use my GT daughter as a prime example. She has continually told me that she didn't learn much of anything in high school from her UGA educated chemistry and math teachers. However, her still raves about how her Vanderbilt physics teacher and Ohio State math teachers taught her so much. She used to arrange her class schedule to ensure that she could take classes under the Vandy and OSU teachers, intentionally avoiding the UGA-educated teachers (because of their lack of knowledge and/or teaching skills).

Could the UGA Education Dept actually be part of the problem instead of being part of the solution? Do they reserve the national ranking currently assigned to them? I don't know beans about the classics so I can't gauge the ranking or effectiveness of that UGA program.

BuzzB
 
Buzzbomb, you are right, but it isn't just the UGa school of education, it's schools of education in general, I think, which present a big problem for actually teaching kids stuff. There is a deeply entrenched academic bureaucracy in education as in every other discipline-all sorts of turf battles, etc. But in education, this is complicated by government bureaucracy, particularly at the state level, which requires "certification" in a given area for someone to teach in that area.

This is fine, up to a point. That point is the one at which education is regarded as an actual science. It's barely a pseudo-science like sociology. Being a good teacher requires some knowledge of what you're teaching, some kind of ability to relate to (non-adult) students, and some je ne sais quoi, which, whatever it is, cannot be titrated.

But schools of education insist that it can be titrated, so does the state, and so do school boards (they have no choice but to play along.) This basic institutional failure to smell the coffee, combined with a local mindset which in many cases regards teachers as mill hands, combined with poor salaries, poor facilities, and poor parental behavior makes the success of public education, such as it is,nearly miraculous.

By contrast, the basic question asked of a college teacher is, does he know his stuff, and have institutions awarded him degrees showing that he does.

Remember, though, that there is not only a difference between your daughter's high school and its faculty over against a college faculty; there is also a big difference between being a h.s. senior and a college freshman.

At any rate, I wouldn't single out UGa's education school; it's a deeper problem. As for Georgia's public education system lagging, welcome to historical circumstances is my basic theory. (As a matter of fact, the school of education requires MORE courses in one's teaching field-Latin, in my case- than the classics dept. requires for a degree.)

Pardon the rant!
 
Belly:

Would an appropriate corrective action be to minimally require an education major to at least minor in the field that they intend to teach? For example, to teach mathematics they must demonstrate (on paper and via testing) that they have mastered the field of concentration? That would potentially avoid the scenario where the education school waters-down the math curriculum for their own students.

In general, I'm very concerned about the state of our secondary schools. I can give you several cases where top-notch high school students from the East Cobb area (e.g., Lassister, Walton, Pope) have done a stellar job in high school but fall flat on their face the first semester they are at Tech. Freshman calculus, physics and chemistry just kills them. I currently know of three cases (very bright high school students) where the kids are on the verge of loosing the Hope Scholarship at Tech. One of my daughters best friends is headed to KSU because he couldn't handle Tech and the last I had heard the attrition rate was &gt;40% for incoming Freshmen.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. Always appreciate hearing the thoughts and ideas of fellow posters.

BuzzB
 
Originally posted by Buzz Bomb:
the last I had heard the attrition rate was &gt;40% for incoming Freshmen.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">this isn't true anymore and it hasn't been true for a while. The retention rate the last few years have been over 90% from freshmen to sophomore years. I have no way to back it up, but I think the Atlanta suburb schools are sending more qualified students. Taking AP/IB classes certainly prepares students better for Tech than a school that doesn't offer college-level courses. Check out the link below:

First-Time Freshmen Retention Study
 
jimbob:

Thanks for the data. Do you know what our current retention rates are for student athletes?

BuzzB
 
Originally posted by Buzz Bomb:
Belly:

Would an appropriate corrective action be to minimally require an education major to at least minor in the field that they intend to teach? For example, to teach mathematics they must demonstrate (on paper and via testing) that they have mastered the field of concentration? That would potentially avoid the scenario where the education school waters-down the math curriculum for their own students.

I
BuzzB
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">This is already the case. One enrolls in the school of education, but learns one's math, English, French, etc. in the regular college. As I said, I had to take MORE Latin to satisfy the school of education than I would have for an A.B. in Arts and Sciences.

The school of education teaches one to be a scientific educationtist (you can imagine what a Latin teacher thinks of that!) regardless of what your field is.

At the schools you mention, you have problems like-just to name one-parents who want Johnny to get an "A", and the hell with what Johnny actually knows. If he doesn't get an "A", they are likely to blame the teacher, the school, the counselors, his classmates,-most anyone but Johnny.

The reaction of StinGTalk to flunkgate was basically that attitude: let's blame Braine, Gailey, whatsername, the president of the school, Bill Clinton, ANYBODY but the kid.
 
Originally posted by techfowl:
Dooley instigated all of this and it erks me that, after he got all of this started and keeps adding fuel to the fire - he then (fingers crossed) calls for an end to the unplasantries.

Anyway - I don't think the UGA folks realize just how bad all this looks to the outside world. In fact, most seem to be proud of the fact that all this is going on - almost a "We ain't gonna take crap off no outsider," kind of thing.

They need to get their affairs in order quickly - it's a circus over there.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Gotta disagree. I despise ugag,...but I agree with 'em this one. Adams appears to a real jerk and seems to have had some very shady dealings going on. You folks can debate the academics all you want,....any college degree is an accomplishment and will give that person a good start. What really amazes me is how some Tech folks want to beat their chests about a Tech degree when the topic is college football. That is what makes us look foolish to our rivals.

GATA JACKETS!!!
 
Rankings are not always the definitive record but tend to give a general perspective of how a school is viewed on a national level.

In terms of engineering graduate schools, Tech currently ranks #5 in the nation. Not too shabby to be up there with MIT, Stanford, Berkeley.

Undergrad rankings (of 248 universities total - 162 public and 86 private) currently show the following results: Emory #18, Tech #38 and UGA #59.

In terms of Graduate Rankings for Business Schools: Emory #21, UGA #43 and Tech #51.

When hiring, I tend to pay less attention to the rankings and concentrate on the quality and skill levels of the candidate. In general, over the past few years our company has managed to 'retire' out quite a few UGA grads, or alternatively, place them in positions where they can't do the company any technical harm. From a science and engineering perspective I do not have an ounce of respect for their grads and view them as academically deficient in these areas. These are my own personal observations but you can make your own. Here's the link to the current USNEWS undergrad rankings for universities that offer a doctoral degree:

Undergrad University Rankings

Graduate school rankings are also posted by USNEWS.

I haven't looked at the actual research funding numbers lately but several years ago... Tech appeared to be doing TWICE AS MUCH with HALF THE NUMBER OF FACULTY and STUDENTS. If you weight in the proportionate size of UGA and Tech, UGA should be significantly higher than Tech in terms of research funding, if they were truly for real. I haven't looked lately but I don't believe this is the case. I think the general academic quality of the faculty and students at Tech is significantly higher than at UGA.

BuzzB
 
I agree, I never bring academics into a football discussion, unless I'm talking about the academic standards a recruit must meet to get into a school...just thought this topic looked to be unrelated to football.
 
Originally posted by Batman:
I agree, I never bring academics into a football discussion, unless I'm talking about the academic standards a recruit must meet to get into a school...just thought this topic looked to be unrelated to football.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Bat:
Probably a thread better suited for 'Off Topic' but... the academic and athletic issues are so inter-related on this thread. The UGAg president wants to 'completely' control the budget and personnel of the athletic department, including football. Considering his alledged misuse of funds, this would probably concern the football side of the house. This whole issue became prominent because of the Athletic Director contract not being renewed. I didn't hear the UGAg football fanatics screaming bloody murder until the Dooley issue surfaced. With all due respect... I think in the 3rd post down of this thread, you did bring academics into this discussion. At least that is the way I interpreted it.

Driver:
Quote: "any college degree is an accomplishment and will give that person a good start."
Sorry... but couldn't disagree more. Not all college degrees are created equal. The university and the degree DO definitely matter when it comes interview time. Some college degrees are simply not not worth the paper they are printed on. Therefore, a primary reason for student athletes to concentrate heavily on obtaining a decent degree from a credible university. Only a very select few will ever make it to the pros. BTW... Does not have to be a 'Tech' degree. There are a lot of good schools out there that qualify with good academic programs.

I see the workforce getting even more competitive... so a good degree will matter even more in the future, especially for the higher paying, highly technical jobs.

Now... mods, can we request that this thread transition to 'Off Topic' to avoid upsetting our pure football friends?
 
Dooley is doing what he has always done.. holding Goergia hostage for his own gains.. if you want proof.. look at his antics in 1966 (going to Oklahoma?) and the entire decade of the 80's... (Going to Auburn? Jan Kemp?) he has made a living of playing dirty politics (ask Erk Russell in Dec 1980) along with exploiting kids .. also can you say major NCAA infractions an average of one every 4 years..

I dont know why he wasnt fired during the Jan Kemp saga..

I have never liked Dooley.. and not just because he is a Mutt.. but in my opinion, he is just a self serving liar and cheat

This thing is getting VERY ugly.. and I have a feeling the worst is yet to come.. I will have my Coke and popcorn watching from the gallery... this could be fun to watch... but is an embarrassment for the state of Georgia
 
No it's only against UGag not the entire state. Most people know it's UGag only.
 
Batman and Driver8,

I didn't graduate from Tech. I don't care about your academics in a football discussion either. I also agree Adams is a low down dirty something.

My point was that UGA backers don't seem to realize how bad all this fiasco looks. Some of them are even proud of what they should be ashamed of. Period. That's my point. I repeat, I don't care about your diploma vs. my buddy's from UGA.

I've got a great one myself and it also has nothing to do with football.

Nothing I wrote had anything to do with diplomas - do me a favor and don't paste my post - then get after me for someone else's.

This does have to do with football because Dooley was a football coach that is associated with our biggest football rival. But I'll try to be sensitive to your needs from here on out.

Anyway - Adams should go for many reasons. He's a scumbag. Dooley is a scumbag in his own right - and both indepenedent of the circus that's currently going on.

That said - There are so many things I know about all this on the inside - not flaming - but believe me - Dooley is the impetus behind making all this public. It's a mess. It's like saying you want to fight instead of just punching somebody.

They need to can both these guys and start over with fresh meat.
 
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