Being a fan of US soccer at the Int'l level

Discussion in 'Other GT Sports' started by MeatWrench, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. MeatWrench

    MeatWrench Holder of all Moon records

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    is like playing the lottery, its fantastic when you win but you know better than to get all excited whenever you play because the odds arent in your favor... Hence Bra 2 US 0 :mad:
     
  2. gojkts

    gojkts Flats Noob

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    At least we played a respectable half against Italy the other night. From a technical perspective, I think we're becoming more competitive at the intl level. Our team managed to do a reasonably good job defending against Italy's speed, holding possession after winning the ball, and even counter-attacking a man down. I didn't expect they'd be able to hold off Italy the 2nd half. And it's maddening that an American born player helped put us away in that one.

    The Costa Rica game a week or so ago was a complete disgrace. We got dominated. We still have some consistency issues (kinda like GT every fall...)
     
  3. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    We are so bad it's not even funny. Half of the players seem like a waste of space. Our defense consists of basketball stances. It's really sad to watch this over and over against top competition.
     
  4. cyptomcat

    cyptomcat PostBot Staff Member

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    It's not that bad, the US recently kicked Mexico's ass and their whole population is actually crazy about soccer. At least being in Northern America, the US have easy access to to the World Cup, because it's much tougher to make the cup from Europe or South America.

    Don't expect much from US soccer because best athletes play other sports not soccer.
     
  5. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    And I hate that. Just compare our players side-by-side with Brazil or Italy, even when we play Egypt. What bothers me about America's mentality about soccer is the thought that goes something like "Well, we are top 15 in the world". I don't know how FIFA rankings continue to keep us that high. Are we top 30? I guess so. The US can win at home but what is the last road or neutral site game against a good opponent that the US won, or even tied? We have this "great rivalry" with Mexico but we have NEVER WON IN MEXICO CITY... I wish more American kids would stick with soccer.
     
  6. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    Does Bob Bradley need to go? I've been having this feeling in the past few months that he wasn't the best choice as manager of this team.
     
  7. yellowandnaked

    yellowandnaked Damn Good Rat

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    YES. He is not the best choice.

    I think in 10 years we will be highly competitive internationally.
     
  8. carober18

    carober18 Varsity Lurker

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    Bob Bradley does not need to go. You have to remember that the U.S. is well behind in terms of competition, coaching, and players.

    Most of the kids that grow up playing in the U.S. still have coaches that never or barely played soccer growing up. This lasts until kids are ten or twelve. Then you have this huge gap in the competition level from age 10 through 20. There is no comparison as to how often other countries' players play and who they play against during this time period.

    Finally, you have the fact that in Brazil, Italy, etc. 80-90% of the very best athletes are playing soccer from a young age. In the U.S. even if you have 25% of the best athletes playing soccer (which is probably a little high), at least half of those are splitting that time with another sport.

    To say that the U.S. is going to be competitive in ten years is either very ambitious or a liberal interpretation of the word "competitive." In the past two games the U.S. would have had only one person starting over any of the other players. Tim Howard could start over Brazil's goalie, but that is it. It's tough to win like that.
     
  9. beej67

    beej67 new around here

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    The US world cup team is the #1 reason we need immigration reform.


    GET MORE MEXICANS IN HERE SO WE CAN COMPETE!
     
  10. gojkts

    gojkts Flats Noob

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    True, to an extent. But keep in mind that physical size isn't as critical to compete at the highest levels in soccer the way it is for football, basketball, baseball players. Kaka, Cristiano Ronaldo, & David Beckham are listed right at 6' (and those are probably inflated). Wayne Rooney's listed at 5'10". Speed, foot skills, and conditioning trump size. That opens up a lot of possibilities. You're talking about drawing 20 world class players from a nation of 300 million. We've got the talent pool and a big enough pipeline.

    I think a bigger problem for the US is the way we develop players. We steer the top players to the NCAA. Travel coaches in the US love to brag about how many div 1 scholarships they've landed for their players. Parents in the US shell out big bucks for kids to play on travel teams in the hope of getting a partial college scholly. But go to England or Spain or Brazil and its professional scouts, not colleges, who are looking at the top junior players. Pro clubs start pulling young players into their training academies around 12 & 13. They often identify prospects as young as 10 or 11. And clubs are allowed to give junior players stipends and equipment provided by sponsors. The top junior players in those countries start training with professionals as early as 15 or 16. That's forbidden in the US. And that's the #1 reason we compete so poorly at the international level. And a big reason why so few American players make it to elite leagues like EPL and Spanish Primera.
     
  11. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    As things currently are, I couldn't agree less. One of the big things that Bob Bradley did was "make the team younger." Eddie Pope and Alexi Lalas were retiring and so he decided to overhaul the entire team. The only argument you can have as to why we aren't playing well in South Africa right now is that Pablo Mastroeni and Brian Ching are at home right now with injuries. But even with those talents, they play MLS ball. Only 2 or 3 Americans consistantly play for their european clubs. Tim Howard is the only starter on a major team I can think of. Which begs the question: which is better, sitting on a bench in europe practicing with top players or playing in the MLS against 2nd teir competition?
     
  12. beej67

    beej67 new around here

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    The soccer academies in Europe basically groom players from the age of 12. That'd be flat illegal here in the US.
     
  13. MeatWrench

    MeatWrench Holder of all Moon records

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    +1
    Its getting better as soccer grows in popularity and former players of any level high school and up become coaches
    But case in point: my old man coached my rec league team from u6('87)-u16('97) and he has never played a day of soccer in his life and doesnt really care one way or the other for the sport, but the civic center needed some volunteers or there wouldn't be enough teams for all the kids to play that wanted to, so him and my same-age friends dad agreed to pick up a manual and do what they could, we ended up being pretty good, but thats just cuz they often made us run constantly at practice for lack of better instruction and we just wore teams out.

    My High School coach barely knew the difference between a corner and a goal kick
     
  14. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    And now even Egypt can beat (Italy keeper) Buffon without a PK...
     
  15. yellowandnaked

    yellowandnaked Damn Good Rat

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    Jesus, good post. You shut me up.
     
  16. casbah62

    casbah62 Flats Noob

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    From the Fulham web site...
    http://www.fulhamfc.com/MatchAndTeam/PlayerProfiles/ProfileDetails/ClintDempsey.aspx

    "Last season Clint opened his account for Fulham with a crucial equaliser against Portsmouth at Fratton Park and went on to become a permanent fixture in Roy Hodgson's starting eleven for the remainder of the 08/09 season. Dempsey's brace against Chelsea on December 28 will go down as one of the highlights of the year."


    No there aren't many but they are out there and they are beginning to get good playing time on all levels...

    few americans players excel in the european clubs because in addition to all the normal problems associated with a major lifechange there is less culture of entitlement...
    Clubs pay you, you perform to their expectations on all levels including off field attitudes and associates, and academics and volunteerism, etc. or you are no longer at the academy. Period

    Playing professional is very different than AYSO or USSA matches and culture... don't even begin about the hypocrisy that is NCAA...

    The academies and the level of coaching and development in Europe is still far above the US. I think Coach Bradley understands this and that is why one of his first changes in philosophy that he instigated 3 years ago was a broadening of the developmental pool not only amongst players but also in the national coaching community. I've noticed a increase in the past 2-3 years of coaching clinics.
    Just as it's taken 30 years for the US to even begin to produce respected players it will take that long for the US to learn from the European academies and be successful.

    I've been playing and watching US soccer since the days of the Atlanta Chiefs with Manfred Kammerer. (he also was a VW Mechanic at the Old dealership downtown IIRC 'Crane Daly'... whew grey matter ...)

    Soccer in the US is WAY!!! better than those days...
    It's only going to get better... there are many healthy youth, a strengthening fan base, and a commited nat'l program...

    This discussion would have fallen on deaf ears 20 years ago...
     
  17. mmbt0ne

    mmbt0ne Dodd-Like

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    Pablo's done. He will never see another minute of top level competition with the nats.

    s for starters

    Gooch (s)
    Dempsey (s)
    Bocanegra (s)
    Edu (s)
    Spector (s when healthy)
    Davies (s)
    Bradley (s)
    Torres
    De Merit
    Califf

    MLS by far. Look at the progression of Donovan vs Beasley, Jozy vs Adu, Bornstein vs Pearce, etc.
     
  18. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    How many of those players (a) play well and (b) are playing for top competition? I think Edu and Beasley are on Rangers (?) and Spector is on West Ham. Though, I guess most competition is better than MLS...

    In terms of early development, I like the MLS. It almost seems to me as the college of international soccer (along with some other leagues too) that try to feed into the "pros" of EPL, Serie A and the Primera Division in Spain. I guess it really comes down to the lack of soccer talent that is developed in the US.
     
  19. mmbt0ne

    mmbt0ne Dodd-Like

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    Well Torres gets consistent minutes at the best club in our half of the world, so take that for what you will.

    Gooch just won the Belgian league for the second straight time and is being courted by Fulham, and recently promoted Premiership clubs like Wolves.

    Dempsey in England >>>> Dempsey for America. His heart clearly isn't in playing national team games and he needs to be sat to prove that he's not irreplacable.

    Edu took the spot of the Scottish national team captain after he was suspended for a vulgar act and then played well enough to hold on to the spot after he returned.

    I guess you can rag on Boca and Bradley for playing at a mid-level Ligue 1 and relegation-fighting Bundesliga clubs respectively, but that's still MUCH better competition than Adu is seeing on the bench in Monaco.

    Davies is in the Swedish league, so certainly nothing special as far as that goes, but he has 21 goals in his last 41 games there, so you can't say he's not tearing it up.
     
  20. turbanicusgt

    turbanicusgt Dodd-Like

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    All good points mmbt0ne. In the end though, the point would be that Italy, Brazil, Spain, whoever else is really good usually has 10 of 11 starters on big name teams doing big things. There are a few Americans out there doing big things but not enough to play with the best on an international level.

    I was talking with another soccer fan before and we pretty much came to the conclusion you can't pick a "best American player" because there is so much mediocrity. We all know C. Ronaldo is the best player in Portugal, we have to debate amongst players in Brazil because there are so many good ones (though, I say Kaka), Leo Messi in Argentina, etc. But the debate in America is because of a lack of really good players, not because we have a bunch of good ones.

    Who do y'all think is the best player on the US team (or someone who is not on the team, even)? (It is of note also, that America's last prodigy hasn't done much, Freddy Adu)