CJP has earned an extension

GTCrew

Patrick Henry
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41,248
Can you share whatever it is you are smoking?

SeasonAcc finishNCAA y/n
10 to 11tied 10/12N
09 to 10solo 7/12Y
08 t0 09solo 12/12N
07 to 08solo 7/12N
06 to 07solo 6/12Y
05 to 06solo 11/12N
04 to 05solo 5/11Y
03 to 04solo 4/9Y
02 t0 03solo 5/9N
01 to 02solo 6/9N
00 to 01solo 5/9Y
99 to 00Solo 8/9N
98 to 99solo 6/9N
97 to 98solo 6/9N
96 to 97solo 9/9N
Math.

This is by far our best two year run in decades.
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
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Messages
23,567
I’m not missing your point at all
The point was that you won’t comment on what CJP could do to justify keeping him, something you’ve steadfastly refused to do all year. You’re gonna complain about the weak ACC and years 2-3 no matter what.

That’s just not fun or interesting message board chatter. So... Peace!
 

jts1207

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Bullshit. We shoulda been 3rd but VT covided a dream schedule ducking FSU, the 2nd UVA game, red hot NCSt at the end of the season, as well as unc and lou. Also we were 5th last year, which is sniffing top 4, so it's not like it came out of nowhere.

I summed up the last two years and we are at 59.4% in conference. FSU, UVA, LOU, and Duke are better, with UNC at 55.6% and nobody else above 52.8%.
Last year means nothing thanks to probation. No telling what VT and there 2nd year COY would have done and beat out 2 -3 teams by .5 game because they missed. ACC is trash this year....when’s the last time our top seed was a 4?
 

johncu

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It’s 4th this year by luck nuts but that’s another conversation. I don’t think we will see 4th again for a long time
Says the guy who "isn't trying to downplay anything".

If we suck after this team graduates and Pastner doesn't continue to recruit good players, then he'll get fired. If he replicates this season and the recruiting class he just pulled, then we'll be in great shape.

Why is that so hard for you to accept?
 

jts1207

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Says the guy who "isn't trying to downplay anything".

If we suck after this team graduates and Pastner doesn't continue to recruit good players, then he'll get fired. If he replicates this season and the recruiting class he just pulled, then we'll be in great shape.

Why is that so hard for you to accept?
Because he doesn’t need an extension to do that. It took 5 years to get to this season I see 0 reason he will duplicate next year
 

GTCrew

Patrick Henry
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Last year means nothing thanks to probation. No telling what VT and there 2nd year COY would have done and beat out 2 -3 teams by .5 game because they missed. ACC is trash this year....when’s the last time our top seed was a 4?
Our 2020 WL record does matter when evaluating a coach, unless you have evidence our cheating gave us an unfair advantage in any of those games. Do you have any evidence of that?

Otherwise, by the objective, non-emotional, measure of "scoreboard" we were 5th.

Also, nobody had a postseason, so a postseason ban is particularly irrelevant for you to use as an excuse.

The ACC trashing anytime UNC or Duke have a tough go is lame. Step 1 is to compete in the ACC. Do that, which we have done, and competing nationally will fall into place.
 

jts1207

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Our 2020 WL record does matter when evaluating a coach, unless you have evidence our cheating gave us an unfair advantage in any of those games. Do you have any evidence of that?

Otherwise, by the objective, non-emotional, measure of "scoreboard" we were 5th.

Also, nobody had a postseason, so a postseason ban is particularly irrelevant for you to use as an excuse.

The ACC trashing anytime UNC or Duke have a tough go is lame. Step 1 is to compete in the ACC. Do that, which we have done, and competing nationally will fall into place.
You can dismiss being put on probation if you like. I will not
 

1982Jacket

Damn Good Rat
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If Tech wins the ACC Tourney or just one NCAA game, he WILL 100% be extended whether anyone here likes it or not. And I would be fine with that. Just, please, no more moronic Paul Hewitt "evergreen" contracts.
 

gtphd

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Misleading post, because trends absolutely matter.

Our best season is the current one, our 2nd best is the previous one, and our best recruiting class is the incoming one. All of the aforementioned player accolades (ACC POY, ACC DPOY) are also current. Meanwhile, all of the negative stuff is in the past.

If the trend reverses and we go back to 2017-2019 results, then any benefit of the doubt Pastner has earned this year is gone. If they don't, then it's obvious that he is building something worth holding onto.
So, if it's all about the trend, why not wait until next year to see if the trend continues? Why extend the guy before his contract is up when we don't yet have the full data on his body of work?
 

jts1207

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So, if it's all about the trend, why not wait until next year to see if the trend continues? Why extend the guy before his contract is up when we don't yet have the full data on his body of work?
It’s not worth arguing with some...they have convinced themselves this was the plan all along
 

gtphd

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It’s not worth arguing with some...they have convinced themselves this was the plan all along
That's the same mentality that lead to the Paul Hewitt Disaster (and CPH had the resume for an extension, not CJP).
 

jts1207

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That's the same mentality that lead to the Paul Hewitt Disaster (and CPH had the resume for an extension, not CJP).
As I said....not worth arguing.
 

andrew

Bobby Bonilla's Financial Planner
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So, if it's all about the trend, why not wait until next year to see if the trend continues? Why extend the guy before his contract is up when we don't yet have the full data on his body of work?
Because contract length can impact recruiting as a lot of players are looking for stability. Not the one-and-done blue chippers, but we're not exactly filling a whole team with those.

Obviously there's some debate about how much of an impact having only two years' left would have. But having only one year left would definitely be a problem, so you definitely don't want to wait for the full data on the contract's body of work before extending.

I'd be in favor of a modest one or two year extension because of that. Then if the trend continues upward next season, lock him up long term.
 

gtphd

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Because contract length can impact recruiting as a lot of players are looking for stability. Not the one-and-done blue chippers, but we're not exactly filling a whole team with those.

Obviously there's some debate about how much of an impact having only two years' left would have. But having only one year left would definitely be a problem, so you definitely don't want to wait for the full data on the contract's body of work before extending.

I'd be in favor of a modest one or two year extension because of that. Then if the trend continues upward next season, lock him up long term.
Prove this. We're making a multi-million dollar decision based on partial data using a hypothetical argument. Why would 3 years help more than 1 year in recruiting? What assurance do we have that it will impact a recruit's decision making process? If it was your money, would you take the risk of the buyout or wait a year for more information?
 

andrew

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Prove this. We're making a multi-million dollar decision based on partial data using a hypothetical argument. Why would 3 years help more than 1 year in recruiting? What assurance do we have that it will impact a recruit's decision making process? If it was your money, would you take the risk of the buyout or wait a year for more information?
Because a coach is a large part of the reason recruits commit to a school and a recruit would be hesitant to commit if the school signaled they may not keep him beyond one more year.

This is extremely commonly accepted. Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean it's right but it does mean I'm not going to spend a long time arguing about it or trying to prove it. We can just agree to disagree if you think that having only one year left on a coach's contract wouldn't impact recruiting.
 

smokey_wasp

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5 years into a rebuild: 1 NCAAT caliber season, 2 NIT caliber seasons, 2 bad seasons that still weren't as bad as the worst that both Gregory and Hewitt put up.

Recruiting has been up and down but only one class was an absolute dud and that was in the thick of the Bell saga. Seems to be on the uptick but the jury is still out.

He has earned the standard "we aren't firing you right now" extension. I actually trust Stansbury to get this right, so I am not sweating it at all.
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
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Prove this. We're making a multi-million dollar decision based on partial data using a hypothetical argument. Why would 3 years help more than 1 year in recruiting? What assurance do we have that it will impact a recruit's decision making process? If it was your money, would you take the risk of the buyout or wait a year for more information?
*We* are not making a decision at all. But the logic of contracts-affecting-recruiting is plain. Whether it is a sufficient reason to extend is worthy of debate.

But let’s not pretend this is a decision that can be resolved with numbers. You need an AD who can read the staff, the market, the recruits, the boosters, etc, and uses his judgment and discretion.
 

gtphd

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Because a coach is a large part of the reason recruits commit to a school and a recruit would be hesitant to commit if the school signaled they may not keep him beyond one more year.
Prove to me this is real and not something made up by an agent to ensure his client received an early extension.

And who are the recruits we have to convince to come to Tech? Okogie was a 3* with only a couple of offers (he expressed interest in uga and they didn't even offer him), we were Moses Wright's only offer, Alvarado was a 3* and it came down to us and Dayton at the end.

Imagine if I went to a banker and said "I know my business has been losing money for 4 years, but this last year, I did pretty good. Give me $2 MM to expand in 2023 and I'll make a killing." What's the banker going to say? Either no, or "come back in 2022 and we'll see how you did." You guys get irrational when it comes to sports.
 
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