Duke Football and Perception of Their Fans

[ahsoisee]

Duke fans are no different than Tech fans, nor the fans from other colleges. This post is in response to Tech fans berating Duke fans for not supporting their football team.

Winning breeds winning and a large following of fans. Losing does the opposite. It is the nature of the beast to put distance between yourself and losers. It is also the normal to desire to be associated with the winner.

Georgia Tech fans have acted the same way. When Tech was in its glory years of the fifties and sixties, tickets were scalped at a premium. Bulldog could not even have gotten a ticket to a Tech game at that time. Dodd had trouble getting dignitaries tickets to the Tech games.

When Tech had its losing years, the fans stopped coming, and Tech even downsized Grant Field. Tech could not fill up the stadium during the losing years. The basketball team started winning and the fans moved their base of idolizing to the basketball arena.

Thus basketball attendance was up and football attendance was down. A good coach breeds winninig and winning brings in the fans.

Dukes fans were attending their football games when Spurrier was the coach and Duke was winning. All it takes for Duke to regain its football glory from the past is to get another good coach at Duke. Duke was a powerhouse when Wallace Wade was coach there, and Duke had a strong following from its fans.

It is no wonder basketball at Duke draws the fans and the attention. Get a good football coach at Duke, start winning in football, and the fans will flock back to the winning football team.

 

[ahsoisee]

I understand the depth of your remark, but you would be surprised how quick the fan base would return if Duke started having good teams.

The difference between Tech and Duke is that Tech has never fallen as low as Duke has fallen. We could possibly have experienced the same drop, if we had lost as bad as their recent lows.

Tech will always have a certain amount of attendance due to the big city atmosphere and the amount of business clients coming to Atlanta. Some are not necessarily fans of Tech, but are there for the weekend enjoyment of football in Atlanta.

Now, it is possible the Duke administration is not willing to go out and pay big bucks for a high caliber coach. I would not discount that as a source of the problem.

If Gailey does well with Tech, maybe we can let Duke contract with Braine, on the side, to find them a good coach.

 

[jimbobGT]

its interesting to note that Duke uses the difficult academics as a reason for the poor football program just like we do for not recruiting five star HS players, but I think it works for them since they actually graduate their players (yes, yes, I know, the hardest part is getting into Duke). I believe their football SAT scores are over 1100 while ours doesn't even reach 900.

I think the Duke administration has a made a decision that academics can slide for basketball but not for football. I don't understand why since we aren't talking about a lot of students and the average SAT/GPAs for the school won't be impacted. Duke has a player coming in that is barely getting the minimum grades in his high school core classes...can such a player actually gain much from Duke or would it better for him to go to a community college which he would be doing if he wasn't a great athlete?

It sucks that Duke's football team is horrible, but they are actual S-As and I wish them luck in life, but Duke basketball is becoming a joke more and more everyday. I hope we never go down that far, I love Tech sports, but Tech academics are so much more important.

 

[bugboy]

I guess they decided it was an either/or thing. And on Tobacco Road, basketball is king. So, if you're gonna lower your academic standards, might as well do it where you think it'll make the most difference...in dook's case, basketball.

I hate Dook.

on Dook.

 

[beeware]

ahso,
A great idea...why don't we go even further and just loan them Braine indefinitely???

 

[bugboy]

I support you on this, in theory. Winning begats fan support.
But last year, Tech went to Duke for their homecoming and there was an announced crowd of about 10,000. Those at the game (I wasn't there) said there was more like 5,000 and Tech had more fans present than Duke.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Tech's fan support ever dropped to that level. Sure, we had our share of games where 30,000 or even less showed up....but less than 10K?
And this was their homecoming, for goodness sakes.
In order for their program to prosper, they need a larger base of support that will turn out regardless of how bad the team is.
Ahso, I guess the question I'm asking is "At what point can we just go ahead and say that their fans suck?" I think we've reached that point.

On Duke.

 

[ahsoisee]

BeeWare, from your point of view, that was an excellent remark. I got a big laugh out of it.

Let me throw out an interesting thought I had about Duke while covering this subject. What if O'Brien has another good year on offense, Duke goes through another bad year, and Duke decides to replace the head coach.

Is there a chance O'Brien and Roof could be together again?

 

[jimbobGT]

aho, I would hope we would try to keep BOB...otherwise over the last couple of years, we would have replaced a HC, DC, and 2 OCs. We need some consistency somewhere.

 

[ahsoisee]

Jimbob, I understand your statement and it is best when you can have consistency. However, it seems plain to me that O'Brien really wants a head coaching or higher profile job.

If this is true, I believe he would jump at the chance to be a head coach somewhere. I have stated this before and will say it again; I believe we already have the next offensive coordinator on the staff.

I think Gailey hired Nix to be the next coordinator in case O'Brien left. In some ways, we would still maintain consistency. My honest opinion, from all I have read, is Nix may have a better offensive mind than O'Brien.

Just my own opinions, mixed with some observations.

 

[beeware]

ahso,
Have you changed to an EVEN thicker pair of gold bifocals????

Duke would be dang lucky to get the services of two fine coaches like Roof and O'brien.
Also, I tend to agree that O'brien will probably leave....I am sure he doesn't appreciate the way the entire staff was treated leading up to and after the wonderful win over the #9 BCS Stanford Cardinal in the Seattle Bowl.
To try to claim that Nix has a better offensive mind than O'brien is UNSUPPORTABLE at best and basically downright ludicrous at this juncture.
Although, I don't like the hire of Gailey and the way it was handled, I do agree with you that it would probably have been better if O'brien had left and let Gailey sink or swim on his on. No one could mess up the talent that Coach O'leary left us with for this year, but the way we lost top notch recruit after top notch recruit, usually right after Gailey had an in-home visit, is very troubling for the future. Am I the only one that remembers Bill Lewis?? I have nothing against Gailey personally, and I am sure that he is a good Sunday school teacher, but it was a totally unnecessary upheaval in the program to hire him and treat our entire staff, that had built us up to five straight bowl games, in such an unprofessional manner. What goes around comes around... It's coming...just as sure as Bill Lewis looks better in a suit than George O'leary did.

 

[ahsoisee]

BeeWare, look at the bio of Nix, it is pretty impressive.

 

[beeware]

Originally posted by ahsoisee:
BeeWare, look at the bio of Nix, it is pretty impressive.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">ahso,
I'll take your word for it that Nix is fine ....however....pitting Nix against O'brien is unnecessary and unproductive in my opinion. O'brien is clearly one of the brightest young offensive minds in the ENTIRE country. Ask the Fridge about him.

 

[GT98]

beeware,

it is comical to see you say that it is unsupportive to say that Nix is on par w/O'brien. Yes, that statement is (currently) true. The comedy comes in when you simply cannot defend your Coach Mac position. Without getting into how the coaching search was or was not conducted, you cannot explain why you think Coach Mac would have been such a great hire other than "positive leadership."

Was this leadership the one exhibited against a disinterested bowl opponent? Or was it when he was the head guy at Villa Rica and West Georgia with little to no success? Is it the fact that major D 1 programs wanted him to be their head coach? Oops, maybe not.

Coach Mac is a fine man and a good position coach. To say that he is more qualified to be the head coach than someone who has had success at the NFL level is crazy. Will Gailey have success here? Dunno, but he is certainly the most qualified of any of the candidates mentioned. Come check out a practice and talk to Gailey afterwards, you just might like him.

 

[beeware]

Originally posted by GT98:
beeware,

it is comical to see you say that it is unsupportive to say that Nix is on par w/O'brien. Yes, that statement is (currently) true. The comedy comes in when you simply cannot defend your Coach Mac position. Without getting into how the coaching search was or was not conducted, you cannot explain why you think Coach Mac would have been such a great hire other than "positive leadership."

Was this leadership the one exhibited against a disinterested bowl opponent? Or was it when he was the head guy at Villa Rica and West Georgia with little to no success? Is it the fact that major D 1 programs wanted him to be their head coach? Oops, maybe not.

Coach Mac is a fine man and a good position coach. To say that he is more qualified to be the head coach than someone who has had success at the NFL level is crazy. Will Gailey have success here? Dunno, but he is certainly the most qualified of any of the candidates mentioned. Come check out a practice and talk to Gailey afterwards, you just might like him.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">GT98.
What is comical is see to you bash Coach Mac and then say what a fine man he is. You are entitled to your opinon. I don't agree with you at all, nor do I have to explain anything to you. Like I said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. REMEMBER...this is NOT the hive...different opinions are welcome here. Time will tell how qualified, and more importantly how successful, Gailey is.

 

[GT98]

beeware,

different opinions are great. I was merely wanting to hear your rationale as to why you like Coach Mac so much.

I wasn't bashing Coach Mac the person, just stating my opinion that he is not qualified to be the head guy.

Nonetheless, I hope that you are able to enjoy the success going forward.

 

[beeware]

Originally posted by GT98:
beeware,

different opinions are great. I was merely wanting to hear your rationale as to why you like Coach Mac so much.

I wasn't bashing Coach Mac the person, just stating my opinion that he is not qualified to be the head guy.

Nonetheless, I hope that you are able to enjoy the success going forward.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">GT98,
Of course I couldn't possibly disagree with you more, but I do hope there is some success to enjoy in the future.
By the way, follow this link to read where not everyone is so enthralled with Gailey's resume.
Oh Gailey accomplishments whereart thou?

 

[GT98]

beeware,

I am aware of that writer's take on Gailey, but he convienetly (sp) leaves out a few facts: Dallas had 5 or 6 wins before Gailey took over as head guy and fell off the map immediately after he left. In Miami, their strength is having a tough defense--Gailey was working w/Jay Fiedler at QB and Lamar Smith at running back. Still, Miami was in the middle for offensive production from the running game--not too bad. Also, Kordell Stewart flourished under Gailey as offensive coordinator and languised until this past year.

Is Gailey the second coming? Nope. Is he as good as Dodd? Nope. But what he has shown over his coaching tenure is the ability to adapt to the talent available--something that O'leary refused to do. Plus, the fresh change of attitude should help the team--Hobie Holliday has looked better in practices as well as Jimmy Dixon--partly due to physical and mental improvement, partly due to a new attitude. I am also excited since we have a head coach that is not inheriting a complete rebuild situation--we'll find out quickly whether or not Gailey can coach.

Again, I was asking about the reasoning regarding your different opinion of Coach Mac--not to flame or try to persuade you otherwise, but simply to find out the thinking behind a different opinion than my own. Such banter back and forth is what makes these message boards entertaining.

 

[ahsoisee]

GT98, I tend to agree with you. The writer failed to include the fact that Gailey won a national championship at Troy State in his first and only year at that school.

He did mention that Gailey was a head coach at Dallas which is significant. Mac was a "good old boy", but did not possess any credentials to become a head coach.

Mac had no influence on the offense or defense against Stanford. Mac claims he turned the offense and defense completely over to O,Brien and Roof. That was a wise move, but it did not provide Mac with the necessary credentials to become a head coach. Shoot, I would have done the same. It did not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Mac's only real and tested credentials are as an offensive line coach. No team in America would have promoted him to head coach. There were some smaller division schools needing a head coach, but they did not consider Mac. Georgia Southern did not consider him this past year.

We would have been the laughing stock of the nation to give the head coaching job to Mac over Gailey. Mac had no credentials, and Gailey's resume was full of valid credentials.

After stating all of the above, Gailey's credentials do not prove he will win big this year. It has to be proven on the field. It, also, does not mean that Mac would have done a better job, if Gailey does not do well. You have to go with the odds, and the odds favor Gailey.

The last remarks of this post is the possible wins with Gailey as opposed to O'Leary. O'Leary screwed up last year with the best chance of Tech going undefeated since 1990.

He took a strong Tech team and finished 7-5 without Friegden to bail him out. Actually, the record was 7-6 without Friegden, if you count the Peach Bowl loss to LSU.

Gailey has a much weaker team this year with the loss of David Schmidgall, Brian Meager, Russell Matvay, Kelly Campbell, George Godsey, Joe Burns, Sean Gregory, Ross Mitchell, Merrix Watson, Nick Rogers, and Chris Young.

Since those who do not like Gailey have insisted we bombed out on recruiting, the team has to be weaker than last years. Also, the schedule is stronger than last year with Vanderbilt replacing Navy, and BYU replacing the Citadel.

We also played North Carolina, Clemson, Maryland, and North Carolina State at home. We have to play them on the road this year and all four should be stronger on paper than last year.

So, if Gailey improves over O'Leary's record of 7-5 from last year, he will not have screwed up the season, but would have improved Tech's record under more difficult situations.

 

[bugboy]

Just to add to what Ahso said:

O'Leary was our coach from 1995 through regular season of 2001. I'm discounting the 3 games at the end of '94.

From '95 through '01, O'Leary was exactly one game over .500 without Fridge.

95 - 6-5
96 - 5-6
00 - 0-1 (peach bowl)
01 - 7-5

total - 18-17

With Fridge:
97 - 7-5
98 - 10-2
99 - 8-4
00 - 9-2

total - 34-13

I, for one, am forever grateful to O'Leary for pulling our team out of the dumps, and for having the foresight to hire Friedgen in '97. Once Friedgen left, I was glad to see O'Leary leave also.

The greatest strength of our previous coaching staff was Fridge. Without him, we're average. So, hiring Mac and keeping the same staff around is a losing proposition....dooming us to mediocrity.

Hiring CG was a stroke of good fortune that will allow us to build on what GOL started. GOL could recruit talent. Now, we need a head coach that can make that talent perform to it's potential, much the way Fridge could. I think CG is the man for the job.

 

[GT98]

ahso/bugboy, et al.,

I disagree a bit about Clemson, UNC, Maryland being tougher on paper than last year. Clemson is replacing their do everything QB and they lose their running back. Their new defensive coordinator ain't working w/a whole lot more than Herring had. However, Clemson (esp. on the road) is always a tough one for us; I think that we are more talented though. UNC loses 9 or 10 defensive starters and their coordinator (whom was replaced w/read and react Huxtable). Their offense may be improved, but the defense looks weak. Maryland breaks in a new QB and loses a lot on the defensive line; further, I expect them to not play w/the horseshoe stuck up their arse like they had last year--teams will be gunning for them. My main concern w/those three games are that they are on the road--not necessarily the talent of the opposition being a lot better than us.

NCSU on the other hand looks like the real deal. Rivers is a quality QB and their defense returns a lot and they play an aggressive scheme. Being on the road hurts as well. I think that us playing against NCSU will be for second place in the conference.

My main concern w/the team is finding a consistent running back. I feel good about either Suggs or Bilbo at QB. IF the running game comes around and the o-line stays healthy we could have a good year. Also, ya gotta think that some of the breaks that went against us last year will go for us this year.