National Championship ? for you guys

Chuck Smith

Chuck Smith

Jolly Good Fellow
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
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Ok, my best friend is a UGA fan so everytime we get together the conversation always turns to the rivalry. Lately it has gotten to where he is disputing our 4 National Titles. Basically saying that some of them don't count because they were given to us by some insignificant poll, and if you look at it that way UGA has 5 titles. NCAA.com lists everyone that was ranked 1st by anyone for every year and has us with 6 and UGA with 5. I am basically looking to see if there is a definitve list of National Champions. The one on wiki looks to be correct but it is hard to trust that site sometimes. Anyone got any ideas for me? Thanks.
 
We have four legit NCs. Don't fall into the trap of justifying them. We earned 'em and we got 'em.

Suffice it to say that at the time they were earned, the poll(s) in question were far from insignificant.
 
Easy answer: Our championships were always from the most significant poll at the time when the championship was earned.
 
[SIZE=-1]Georgia Tech Titles [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Yellow Jackets Claim Four National Titles and 15 Conference Crowns

[SIZE=-1]National Championships[/SIZE]
1917, 1928, 1952, 1990

[SIZE=-1]Conference Championships (15)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]SIAA (5): 1916, 1917, 1918, 1920, 1921[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Southern Conference (3): 1922, 1927, 1928[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Southeastern Conference (5): 1939, 1943, 1944, 1951, 1952[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Atlantic Coast Conference (2): 1990, 1998[/SIZE]

...earned every one of 'em.

THWG fans who question RamblinWreck.com



[/SIZE]
 
UGA's were mostly very second tier publications. Like it was said above, all of ours were recognized as important in their day.

I last I remember UGA actually only shows one national championship at Sanford, but they may have changed that. Any team that plays two games and then decides to not count them later is capable of saying and doing anything.
 
ugag folks only count what's best for them. They don't count the 1943 and 1944 football games even though the Southeastern Conference did recogonize GA TECH as Conference Chamapions those 2 years. Just shows how blind they can be. Don't waste your time with logic & facts.

Ignorance can be fixed; stupid is forever!
 
Eventually you come to the following realizations:

1) Arguing with a UGAg fan similar to arguing with a wall because both make you feel like an idiot, but only arguing with the Mutt will literally make your IQ drop.

2) There is no such thing as a "Georgia Fan/Friend"

3) Fried egg sandwiches simply cannot compare to their scrambled cousins.
 
The Jacket said:
Eventually you come to the following realizations:

1) Arguing with a UGAg fan similar to arguing with a wall because both make you feel like an idiot, but only arguing with the Mutt will literally make your IQ drop.

2) There is no such thing as a "Georgia Fan/Friend"

3) Fried egg sandwiches simply cannot compare to their scrambled cousins.
Click to expand...

Life lessons at StingTalk.
 
Several points here:
  1. The NCAA recognizes no National Champion in I-A football. PERIOD. They list some things on their website just for fun. So they are all Mythical National Championships (MNC).
  2. Most of the things you see listed on the NCAA website or elsewhere are computer ratings or other systematic formulas, NOT polls. Most of them do not actually award championships and most of them were not contemporaneous.
  3. The first contemporaneous "national champion" as far as I have been able to determine was the Dickinson System, a statistics-based formula devised by a U of Illinois professor, who awarded national championships from 1926-1940. This is not a widely accepted MNC.
  4. Prior to about 1936, there were no real national champions. 2 things happened in 1936: The AP Poll started ranking teams and handing out a trophy, and the Helms Athletic Foundation started a panel of experts to select the national champion.
  5. Helms also went back and retroactively examined previous football seasons to 1901 and named national champs for those years as well. Since then, others have retroactively named champions as well, such as the National Championship Foundation and Billingsley (a power rating formula). None of these were contemporaneous!
  6. Prior to 1936, there was something kind of like the BCS, called the Rose Bowl. The idea of the Rose Bowl was to pit the best team from the East against the best team from the West. The winner was not called the national champion, but it's hard for me to argue against the MNC for a team that won the Rose Bowl and had the best record.
  7. The AP poll and the Coaches' poll are the two universally recognized sources for national champions. The coaches poll started in 1950 as the United Press (UP) poll. Another news organization called International News Service (INS) did a poll of writers and coaches from 1952-1957, but this was merged with the UP poll when UP and INS merged to form United Press International (UPI) in 1958. Yet another poll started in this era is the FWAA (Football Writer's Association of America) beginning in 1954.
Now given this background info, we can look at GT and UGA's MNCs:

1990
Colorado: AP, Berryman, DeVold, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Sporting News, USA/CNN
Georgia Tech: Dunkel, FACT*, National Championship Foundation*, UPI
Miami (Fla.): Billingsley, Eck, FACT*, NY Times, Sagarin
Washington: FACT*

GT won the coaches poll, LEGIT.

1980
Florida St.: FACT*
Georgia: AP, Berryman, FACT*, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sporting News, UPI
Nebraska: FACT*, Sagarin
Oklahoma: Billingsley, Dunkel, Matthews
Pittsburgh: DeVold, FACT*, Football Research, NY Times

Georgia won the AP and coaches' polls, LEGIT.

1968
Georgia: Litkenhous
Ohio St.: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, UPI
Texas: DeVold, Matthews, Sagarin

Georgia won a rinky-dink rating system with an 8-1-2 record, Ohio State was 10-0 and won both polls, BOGUS.

1956
Georgia Tech: Berryman
Iowa: Football Research
Oklahoma: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, FW, Helms, INS, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson
Tennessee: Sagarin

Georgia Tech won a rinky-dink rating system with a 10-1 record, Oklahoma was 10-0 and won both polls, BOGUS.

1952
Georgia Tech: Berryman, INS, Poling
Michigan St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

Georgia Tech was 12-0 and won a recognized media poll (INS), Michigan State 9-0 and won the other polls, LEGIT.

1951
Georgia Tech: Berryman, Boand*
Illinois: Boand*
Maryland: DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin
Michigan St.: Billingsley, Helms, Poling
Tennessee: AP, Litkenhous, UPI, Williamson

Georgia Tech finished 11-0-1, won a couple of rating systems. Tennessee won the polls (which were pre-bowl at that time) but lost to 10-0 Maryland in the Orange Bowl. BOGUS, although from a retrospective point of view, better claim than Tennessee.

1946
Army: Boand*, Football Research, Helms*, Houlgate, Poling*
Georgia: Williamson
Notre Dame: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand*, DeVold, Dunkel, Helms*, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling*, Sagarin

Army had not lost a game in 3 years and Notre Dame fought them to a 0-0 tie, both teams finished unbeaten with a tie and between them shared MNC honors. Georgia finished 11-0 and won a rinky-dink rating system. BOGUS.

1942
Georgia: Berryman, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Williamson
Ohio St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation
Wisconsin: Helms

Georgia finished 11-1 and beat UCLA in the Rose Bowl. Ohio State finished 9-1. Georgia's loss was 27-13 to a mediocre 6-4-1 Auburn team, while Ohio State lost to a strong 8-1-1 Wisconsin team picked as national champs by one source. Still, Rose Bowl win = LEGIT.

1928
Detroit: Parke Davis*
Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling
Southern California: Dickinson

Georgia Tech was 10-0 and beat California in the Rose Bowl. USC tied California and finished 9-0-1. LEGIT.

1927
Georgia: Boand, Poling
Illinois: Billingsley, Dickinson, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis
Notre Dame: Houlgate
Yale: Football Research

Georgia finished 9-1 and won a couple of rating systems, lost the last game of the season 12-0 to 8-1-1 Georgia Tech. Illinois finished 7-0-1 with a tie against mediocre 4-3-1 Iowa State. BOGUS.

1917
Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation

GT finished 9-0, outscored opposition 491-17, and had not lost a game in 3 years. LEGIT.




So there you have it: 4 LEGIT MNCs for GT and 2 LEGIT MNCs for UGAg.


You could argue more or less for either team, but those are recognized by the historical consensus.
 
mm42 said:
Several points here:
  1. The NCAA recognizes no National Champion in I-A football. PERIOD. They list some things on their website just for fun. So they are all Mythical National Championships (MNC).
  2. Most of the things you see listed on the NCAA website or elsewhere are computer ratings or other systematic formulas, NOT polls. Most of them do not actually award championships and most of them were not contemporaneous.
  3. The first contemporaneous "national champion" as far as I have been able to determine was the Dickinson System, a statistics-based formula devised by a U of Illinois professor, who awarded national championships from 1926-1940. This is not a widely accepted MNC.
  4. Prior to about 1936, there were no real national champions. 2 things happened in 1936: The AP Poll started ranking teams and handing out a trophy, and the Helms Athletic Foundation started a panel of experts to select the national champion.
  5. Helms also went back and retroactively examined previous football seasons to 1901 and named national champs for those years as well. Since then, others have retroactively named champions as well, such as the National Championship Foundation and Billingsley (a power rating formula). None of these were contemporaneous!
  6. Prior to 1936, there was something kind of like the BCS, called the Rose Bowl. The idea of the Rose Bowl was to pit the best team from the East against the best team from the West. The winner was not called the national champion, but it's hard for me to argue against the MNC for a team that won the Rose Bowl and had the best record.
  7. The AP poll and the Coaches' poll are the two universally recognized sources for national champions. The coaches poll started in 1950 as the United Press (UP) poll. Another news organization called International News Service (INS) did a poll of writers and coaches from 1952-1957, but this was merged with the UP poll when UP and INS merged to form United Press International (UPI) in 1958. Yet another poll started in this era is the FWAA (Football Writer's Association of America) beginning in 1954.
Now given this background info, we can look at GT and UGA's MNCs:

1990
Colorado: AP, Berryman, DeVold, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Sporting News, USA/CNN
Georgia Tech: Dunkel, FACT*, National Championship Foundation*, UPI
Miami (Fla.): Billingsley, Eck, FACT*, NY Times, Sagarin
Washington: FACT*

GT won the coaches poll, LEGIT.

1980
Florida St.: FACT*
Georgia: AP, Berryman, FACT*, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sporting News, UPI
Nebraska: FACT*, Sagarin
Oklahoma: Billingsley, Dunkel, Matthews
Pittsburgh: DeVold, FACT*, Football Research, NY Times

Georgia won the AP and coaches' polls, LEGIT.

1968
Georgia: Litkenhous
Ohio St.: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, UPI
Texas: DeVold, Matthews, Sagarin

Georgia won a rinky-dink rating system with an 8-1-2 record, Ohio State was 10-0 and won both polls, BOGUS.

1956
Georgia Tech: Berryman
Iowa: Football Research
Oklahoma: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, FW, Helms, INS, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson
Tennessee: Sagarin

Georgia Tech won a rinky-dink rating system with a 10-1 record, Oklahoma was 10-0 and won both polls, BOGUS.

1952
Georgia Tech: Berryman, INS, Poling
Michigan St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

Georgia Tech was 12-0 and won a recognized media poll (INS), Michigan State 9-0 and won the other polls, LEGIT.

1951
Georgia Tech: Berryman, Boand*
Illinois: Boand*
Maryland: DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin
Michigan St.: Billingsley, Helms, Poling
Tennessee: AP, Litkenhous, UPI, Williamson

Georgia Tech finished 11-0-1, won a couple of rating systems. Tennessee won the polls (which were pre-bowl at that time) but lost to 10-0 Maryland in the Orange Bowl. BOGUS, although from a retrospective point of view, better claim than Tennessee.

1946
Army: Boand*, Football Research, Helms*, Houlgate, Poling*
Georgia: Williamson
Notre Dame: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand*, DeVold, Dunkel, Helms*, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling*, Sagarin

Army had not lost a game in 3 years and Notre Dame fought them to a 0-0 tie, both teams finished unbeaten with a tie and between them shared MNC honors. Georgia finished 11-0 and won a rinky-dink rating system. BOGUS.

1942
Georgia: Berryman, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Williamson
Ohio St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation
Wisconsin: Helms

Georgia finished 11-1 and beat UCLA in the Rose Bowl. Ohio State finished 9-1. Georgia's loss was 27-13 to a mediocre 6-4-1 Auburn team, while Ohio State lost to a strong 8-1-1 Wisconsin team picked as national champs by one source. Still, Rose Bowl win = LEGIT.

1928
Detroit: Parke Davis*
Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling
Southern California: Dickinson

Georgia Tech was 10-0 and beat California in the Rose Bowl. USC tied California and finished 9-0-1. LEGIT.

1927
Georgia: Boand, Poling
Illinois: Billingsley, Dickinson, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis
Notre Dame: Houlgate
Yale: Football Research

Georgia finished 9-1 and won a couple of rating systems, lost the last game of the season 12-0 to 8-1-1 Georgia Tech. Illinois finished 7-0-1 with a tie against mediocre 4-3-1 Iowa State. BOGUS.

1917
Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation

GT finished 9-0, outscored opposition 491-17, and had not lost a game in 3 years. LEGIT.




So there you have it: 4 LEGIT MNCs for GT and 2 LEGIT MNCs for UGAg.


You could argue more or less for either team, but those are recognized by the historical consensus.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the research man.:biggthumpup:
 
I vote to agree with UGA on the condition that we eliminate the games from 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 from the historical record due to the War in Iraq. As well as all of our losses during Vietnam, WWI, Korea, the Spanish-American war, the Cold War, the Balkan Conflict, and the Grenada Invasion (among others).
 
First ask the toothless inbreed arguing with you the following question:

1) What year did you graduate from UGA ?

... if the answer is 'i ain't never done went there' or a glassed over stare from the use of a 3 syllable word then walk away.

Most people that start up with me don't have degrees from there, and in that case I just don't care. If that goes then I'll just simply claim I am a Notre Dame, Alabama, Michigan and Oklahoma fan and therefore claim 20 some-odd National Championships. Most UGA "fans" have never enrolled there, let alone completed grade school, let alone received a degree from there.
 
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