Ol’ Roy to Retire

OptionJacket

Varsity Lurker
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Dec 31, 2017
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291
I wish we would choke ourselves to three national titles.
Dude, any team could get to Final Fours consistently if they bought players and had no school work to worry about. I guarantee if GT decided to become corrupt and had the police in charge of that corruption in our pocket we’d be a powerhouse. That’s been Duke and UNC for decades. They are protected. GT and most schools are not. That’s why I laugh at the talk of Roy being a Hall of Famer. He’s a turd who was at two protected programs who cheat and he still choked more than he won. At least Saban wins with his corruption.
 

gtfan088

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I'm not in any crowd, though I do admit that personally I think it makes a lot more sense to hate Coach K than to hate Roy. I think we're all free to hate Roy on all the usual grounds that we hate opposing coaches... (a) he whines to the media, (b) he gets all the calls, (c) he recruits against us unfairly in some way, (d) etc. etc.

But you can't hate Roy for being a bad coach or being overrated or whatever. In fact, it is pretty hard to think of what kind of further accomplishment he could achieve to demonstrate he wasn't bad or overrated. Execute a certain in-game adjustment just the way *we* think he ought to?

He may not be "the" greatest coach of all time (that may be your HS coach that really changed your life, or whatever), but he's plainly among the greatest, most successful and most accomplished coaches in MBB history. The goal of each game is to win the game, and the goal of each season is to win the championship. He's done both of those more than almost anyone.
I think we're pretty much on the same page. His accomplishments speak for themselves at this point.
 

gtfan088

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Dude, any team could get to Final Fours consistently if they bought players and had no school work to worry about. I guarantee if GT decided to become corrupt and had the police in charge of that corruption in our pocket we’d be a powerhouse. That’s been Duke and UNC for decades. They are protected. GT and most schools are not. That’s why I laugh at the talk of Roy being a Hall of Famer. He’s a turd who was at two protected programs who cheat and he still choked more than he won. At least Saban wins with his corruption.
This isn't the John Wooden era of college basketball. Nobody is winning national championships year after year like Bama can do in football. I won't argue with you that the system is corrupt, because of course it is, but UNC isn't the only program benefitting from that system. Neither is Duke.
 

OptionJacket

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True. But Roy has done less with more for years yet he’s lauded as some coaching genius because he’s been employed forever at schools that have all the advantages and are off limits by the NCAA. He’s not even an average coach.
 

gtfan088

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True. But Roy has done less with more for years yet he’s lauded as some coaching genius because he’s been employed forever at schools that have all the advantages and are off limits by the NCAA. He’s not even an average coach.
I'm not sure I'd call him a "coaching genius," but ultimately the goal is to win championships, and few have done it better than he has (and none during his tenure at UNC). He's had some teams that failed to measure up to their talent level, as does just about every coach at a major program from time to time, but I'm of the belief that managing talent is trickier in basketball than it is in football. Unless you have a generational Lebronesque talent, which Roy never had, you're not going to be able to outphysical teams the way you sometimes can do in football--at least not nearly as often. Fostering cohesion is half the battle.

If you want to say he had elite talent every year and dismiss his results accordingly, then pretty much no coach at a blue blood school can be considered to be any good, because all of them are loaded with talent yet ending their seasons with losses much more often than they're ending with wins.
 

18in32

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If you want to say he had elite talent every year and dismiss his results accordingly, then pretty much no coach at a blue blood school can be considered to be any good, because all of them are loaded with talent yet ending their seasons with losses much more often than they're ending with wins.
Exactly – this whole debate is ridiculous. Not only does Roy have 3d most all time victories and 4th most national titles, he's also got 4th most Final Fours, and the 2d most Tournament victories. He's got 20 more Tournament victories than Boeheim, 25 more than Izzo and 28 more than Jim Calhoun. There's literally no metric by which a coach could be judged – except we internet randos' "eye test" – by which Roy isn't one of the most successful coaches in the history of the game.

People who think great programs don't need great coaches because they have great talent need to spend a little time investigating Kentucky under Billie Gillespie, and UNC under Matt Doherty, and Indiana under Archie Miller, and Duke under Pete Gaudet.

Great coaches aren't made by great programs, they're hired by great programs. It's how great programs stay great programs.
 
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