Recruiting -undeniable truth , one click away

[bobby dodds ghost]

Alot of posts, both here and on the hive, have batted back and forth the state of GT football recruiting. Some fear this year's slow start, coupled with last year's "fruit basket turn-over" spells disaster. Others preach stoic calm, trusting in Braine's new, but untested head coach and recruiter.
It IS too early to panic, and who knows, maybe Coach Gailey turns out to be an incredible recruiter, but one thing is for sure, not debatable....
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RECRUITING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, IT IS THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATES SUCCESS FROM FAILURE.
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Tech's troubles over the past decades have been the result of a coaching merry-go-round which has created an up and down recruiting process. Good, stable coaching staffs have been able to recruit well. Poor coaches, and "see you later" coaches have, more times than not, pulled the plug on any recruiting consistancy.
So... here we all sit again on the beginning of a new recruiting era. An era full of the same ol' questions that we should all, by now, know by heart.
One thing that we do know for certain is the importance of recruiting, the consistancy of recruiting, and the end results of poor recruiting.
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Here's one Tech fan who hopes Coach Gailey and staff have an incredibly successful, and long-lived, recruiting future here at Ga. Tech. The success of the program depends on it.
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BOO

 

[GT J.T.]

Agree with you. Of course. Recruiting is the life blood of any program.

Funny how 1 year ago today up here in God's Country nobody knew what kind of recruiter Al Groh might be. In fact, most spelled doom. Yet one year later he is being claimed as God's gift to recruiting. Good thing UVa fans took a wait and see approach. Of course it isn't like we (fans) have any other choice.

We can also agree that recruiting is only the first step. An incredibly important step as you point out, but it doesn't guarantee championships. Gotta have that coaching, chemistry, etc., once they get there for it to really happen. Ask UGA FB for the past 20 years. And to be fair, if recruiting was all it took Cremins (who I worked for while in graduate school at Ma Tech and who I love and appreciate dearly...just stating the obvious truth) would've been to many more Final Fours than just one.

 

[bobby dodds ghost]

You are correct on all counts.
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Good recruiting, in my opinion, beats good coaching and good chemistry 9 out of 10 times. You can't coach speed, and you can't inspire height.
In Real Estate, it's location, location, location.
In College Football, its recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.
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BOO

 

[texstinger]

I am not so sure that the role of the HC in recruiting is overblown. The Asst. coaches do most of the work. I wonder over the years how many kids went to ugag coz of Dooley & how many went coz of russell.

 

[Ramblin Buzz]

I agree with you GT JT on recruiting. I also think it is the most over-rated aspect of college football. Now don't take that as meaning that getting quality athletes is not important, what I am referring to is "the ranking of recruits and classes" are over-rated. Too many folks get too wrapped up in us signing a 3-star athlete vs a 5-star. There are just too many intangibles when dealing with high school kids and how they will perform and adjust to college life. Many get home sick. Others chase girlfriends to other schools and transfer, still others never adjust to being away from home. Some blossom after having been hardly noticed in high school. Many were just plain over-rated or under-rated. An example of this is easy using 3 Tech LB recruits all from the same class. Most would have Holiday, Fox and Smith ranked in that order coming out of high school, but yet right now I think the order would be reversed.

As important as the 4.2 40 time and the 6-7 300 lb size are, the other aspects are just as important (such as how coachable a kid is, etc). Now obviously, you can't take it to an extreme and say a kid that is 5'5 and runs a 5.0 40 will do better than a kid that is 6'2 and runs a 4.2 just because he has more desire.

Recruiting players important? Sure. But who can judge the quality of these recruits until "after" they finish their eligibility?

 

[GTTerrific]

Meeting the needs of a program in recruiting are important too. Have to look down the road and go after guys that will be able to fill needs and use that to your advantage.

Key Fox, D, Smith, and H. Holliday are good examples. Key and D weren't rated as high as others as far as stars. They all were on the state all star team, but not highy rated. They all have fit into this program well.

Yes, I know that Hobie hasn't seen the field as much, but he's been a very productive player. He played a lot his freshman year on special teams. He's grown out of LB. We'll see a lot of that guy this year. That's really the way it should be. Work in a program and contribute first two, then shine as an upper classman.

Gathers is another example. We really needed End and DL recruits bad. He wasn't highly rated at all. He's been an absolute stud.

Before it's all said and done Hargrove and Henderson could be stars. Some didn't even rank them at all. LOL

Wait till you guys set your eyes on Mathews!!!! Shook that guys hand at a practice he was visiting this spring. What was he ranked?? I'm telling ya. He's a speciman! If he runs and hits like the coaches say he does, I could care less about the freaken rankings!!

Also recruiting players that want to GT experience is important.

 

[beeware]

Coach O'leary was a very good recruiter and judge of talent. He was constantly bringing in hidden gems like Jonathan Smith. He had surrounded himself with excellent recruiters like Coaches McWhorter, Roof, Kelly and Thompson...all outstanding recruiters in their own right. The talent they brought in is impressive and this year's team is possibly the most talent laden team that TECH has ever had.
To throw all that away to take a wild chance on 'Buck' and his buds is mind-boggling.
We had just beaten the #9BCS Stanford Cardinal in their own back yard. The staff was ready to hit the ground running (already with 8 early committs) and the promise of another great recruiting year (albeit a small class).
But Braine decides to tear down everything Coach O'leary had built up, and ignore the impressive job by a great staff at the Seattle Bowl, to roll the dice on 'Buck'.
We were told that the recruits would flock to 'Buck' and his resume. Hasn't happened....and probably won't.
We will win in spite of 'Buck' this year and maybe even next. But when we look back 5 years from now, the dismembering of the Seattle Bowl staff will look as ridiculous to all as it does to some of us now.

In 'Buck' We Trust

 

[bobby dodds ghost]

While I share many of Beeware's concerns, I am hopeful the new staff can have a great recruiting class this year. They MUST have a great recruiting class this year. There is still plenty of time to pull this off this year, and the new staff's slow start is some what understandable.
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Bottom line.... Last year's class is too small to handle a poor-to-average class right behind it. It contains good student/athletes, but it is the numbers that we must worry about. Usually, first year coaches (at any school) have great first year recruiting classes. If we want to stay in the top 1/2 half of the ACC, we will need this to be the case this year.
I, for one, do not want to get back on the OLD Ga. Tech roller coaster of 2 good years followed by 5 bad years and a coaching change.
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BOO

 

[gnats67]

Originally posted by bobby dodds ghost:
I, for one, do not want to get back on the OLD Ga. Tech roller coaster of 2 good years followed by 5 bad years and a coaching change.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Copy that. I don't think it will happen just because of the recent overhaul. TECH still has its many invariables working for it, ie location. tradition, education, etc. The "new guys" would certainly have to screw up but as long as they do their job and get out and beat the bushes we should be able to recruit well. The "other staff" didn't have some magic formula that is now lost.

 

[beeware]

Originally posted by gnats 67:
The "new guys" would certainly have to screw up but as long as they do their job and get out and beat the bushes we should be able to recruit well. The "other staff" didn't have some magic formula that is now lost.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">The other staff certainly did seem to have the recruiting formula and they had a head coach that could close the deal. Not sure exactly what the deal is with 'Buck' but the kids are dang sure not flocking to him (as was boldly predicted by some). If anything, they are running from him.
Miami was smart enough to promote from within and they ended up with a national title. Too bad we were Braine-dead in our coaching search....and threw away the great chance we had had to promote from within. One would have thought something would have been learned after Bill Lewis was chosen over Coaches O'leary and Friedgen. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....let me present to you....'Buck' Lewis'.
Thank you...thank you very much....yeah right.

In 'Buck' We Trust

 

[Herr Goldshields]

Before anyone else expresses worry over recruiting, here's some good news I've gleaned through various Internet sources; these are kids we have been named leaders for or are heavily involved with early on:

1) CB/WR Ryan Gilliam 5-10 172 4.4 The Insider's #9 CB nationally. 4 stars. Tech and Illinois are frontrunners.

2) TB Tashard Choice 6-1 200 4.4 Tech leads. I have seen him play, and he is a quality prospect. Good news is his HS offense allows him to catch passes too, and from what I saw his hands were good. 3-star prospect ranked #52 nationally by Insiders. I believe that is about where Will Glover was ranked??

3) S Vince Beamer 6-2 185 4.45 Tech and Michigan State are frontrunners. Sounds like a good athlete at a position where we are thin.

4) DB/WR Joey Sturdivant 6-3 185 4.5 Tech leads. From Parkview HS. Reminds me of Jeremy Muyres.

5) CB DeRae Allen 5-11 175 4.4 Son of former Tech player. Those numbers are from a Nike Camp so the speed is legit.

Others we are heavily involved with:

LB Kory Gedin 6-3 235 4.6. UNC and Tech lead. 1180 on SAT.

S LaRon Landry 6-2 185 4.4. Very highly regarded. Brother of Dawan. Tech is on the radar screen, but so are a few others.

OL Kenyon Buford 6-6.5 367 5.5. Nike Camp numbers so YES HE IS THAT BIG. Ohio St. leads, but has expressed serious interest in Tech. We've offered. IF UT offers, they'd lead.

ATH William Gay 6-0 165 4.4. Tech among early leaders. Says he has run 4.35 before. Likes our playing opportunity at DB. 850 SAT.

QB Al Pena 6-3.5 200 4.55. Nike Camp numbers so they're legit. Came out of nowhere to impress this summer. Likes Okla. St. because they've offered. Maybe we're waiting on him to camp with us? 990 SAT.

DT Ryan Watson 6-3 270 *4.7*! Now this is the kind of stud we need. Sounds like another Greg Gathers. From New Orleans area. Likes us along with LSU, Colorado and others.

There are others we're involved with, but those are the ones off the top of my head. So you see, there may be no reason to panic at all, my friends, come Signing Day. If we signed just HALF these guys I listed, we'd have a class right now 'ranked' as high as those we had under O'Leary with some tremendous athletes to boot. BTW, it looks like we are not even fooling with people who don't look they'll qualify, so you can bet all these guys are pretty good to make the grades.

 

[GT J.T.]

Thanks, Technician. Great stuff.

Love to see all those DB's. People forget it or don't realize it sometimes, but you need at least 5-6 DB types in every class, IMO. Your special teams units are loaded with safeties and corners. Plus, in today's nickel and dime coverage schemes it isn't like you are playing the standard 2 corners + 2 safeties an entire game.

Will never forget for example Tony Hollings as a true frosh in 2000 at UNC recovering a blocked punt for a TD. Who would've ever thought Tony would return to C-H 2 years later potentially as Tech's #1 tailback?

 

[digbee]

Originally posted by beeware:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Originally posted by gnats 67:
The "new guys" would certainly have to screw up but as long as they do their job and get out and beat the bushes we should be able to recruit well. The "other staff" didn't have some magic formula that is now lost.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">The other staff certainly did seem to have the recruiting formula and they had a head coach that could close the deal. Not sure exactly what the deal is with 'Buck' but the kids are dang sure not flocking to him (as was boldly predicted by some). If anything, they are running from him.
Miami was smart enough to promote from within and they ended up with a national title. Too bad we were Braine-dead in our coaching search....and threw away the great chance we had had to promote from within. One would have thought something would have been learned after Bill Lewis was chosen over Coaches O'leary and Friedgen. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....let me present to you....'Buck' Lewis'.
Thank you...thank you very much....yeah right.

In 'Buck' We Trust</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">

 

[bobby dodds ghost]

Here's an example of how important recruiting can turn out to be....
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I can remember the 1979 UGA football squad. Coaching was average to above average. Team's past records had been average to above average (6-5 in 1979). Stadium was average to above average.
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Then came the recruiting of one H. Walker. It supposedly came down to Tech, Clemson, and UGA. Tech faded first, then Clemson. It was the incredible persistance of an UGA asst. coach who landed Walker, and this one recruit resulted in a forever changed landscape and perception of UGA football.
Top 10 rankings, sell-outs, stadium expansions, increased enrollment, MONEY....all followed.
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Just think what could happen at Tech one day if a similiar situation occurred. Just think how differently things would have been if Walker had signed with Tech.
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The "Program Makers" are out there....Tech's chances of getting them, with the same hard work, are as good as anyone elses. I don't believe in all the excuses that are force-fed onto Tech fans regarding our recruiting limits. Every school has strong points and weaknesses. It can happen...and someday it will happen.
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BOO

 

[Ramblin Buzz]

I would disagree on the H. Walker analogy. The Uga program had been on a huge "run" since the day VD took over in 1964. He reeled off 5 straight over us, and had numerous SEC Championships from 1964-88 (his years at Uga). In the '70s, Uga had many Top 20 teams and a few Top 5 teams. Dooley had 2 losing seasons his entire time at Uga, and 1979 just happened to be a down year. They were 9-1-1 in '78 and 10-1 in '76, so the analogy that they went from worst (or even mediocre) to first doesn't hold in this situation. Uga was expanding Sanford Stadium regardless of Herschel/National Championship due to the fact that they dominated the state in the '70s.

If your theory was the "key", then we should have expanded the stadium in 1991 to 85,000 because of our stellar 1988 recruiting class that led to the 1990 National Championship.

There is much more to college football than recruiting. Important yes, but you still have to lace them up (and coach them up).

 

[GT J.T.]

Truth regarding Herschel Walker...

My father has been an insurance salesman for the last 35 years. And a successful one at that. We lived in Dublin at the time Herschel was a Jr.-Sr. at Johnson Co. HS. Bush Perry was the sports editor of the Dublin Courier-Herald. Perry was so tight with the Walker recruiting saga he was given sole access to the whole "ordeal" over the Atlanta and Macon papers who treated Herschel and his family as if they were just "another kid" while Perry had been (locally) on the kid since he was a Junior. Might I add at this point Walker and his Trojans from JCHS came to my high school, Dublin HS, when he was a Jr. and walked away from the Shamrock Bowl (our home stadium's name) with a 50-something to nothing loss. But, I digress. Our one claim to fame. No matter they were Class A and we were AAA. :&gt;)

Walker's dad worked at a koalin mine in McIntyre - the same county (Wilkinson) where Kevin Brown is from. The same county where Gordon exists and where my uncle (Dr. Cyler Garner) has delivered more babies (including Kevin Brown and Victoria Principle) than I've drank beers believe it or not. At any rate, the kaolin mine doesn't pay much, but in Herschel's senior year at JCHS he was driving a new Black Trans Am and a new Ford Pick Up Truck. His family's home all of a sudden after his freshman year at UGA had a pool in the backyard of their home shaped in the form of a bulldog. How do I know this? MY DAD INSURED THE CARS AND THE HOME!!!!!

Truth. Ask anybody close to the situation. There's no question he was bought by UGA. My dad knew it. I knew it. Everybody near the situation knew it. I have often wondered why my dad didn't say anything (he graduated from Mercer but had 4 brothers who graduated from UGA) to the obvious, but I guess the pressure of the time was just too much. Plus, he had a book of sales to make and feed kids and that was likely a poor business decision that day and time - maybe even today in that part of the world.

 

[ramblinwise1]

JT you are correct. My father was a shift foreman at Engelhard and his father was a bagger (not one of the better jobs) and came home telling us the story about the black trans am that Herschel got going into his freshman year.

The NCAA is a joke missing the obvious.

As another point on the discussion above, I believe that recruiting is not 9 out of 10 on the scale of success. It is more like 7.5 out of 10. You still have to prepare well in coaching and motivate the players to execute.

Last year we underachieved due to a litany of factors already discussed elsewhere. You've got to have the talent to win, but it still doesn't guarantee success.

To put is mathematically, talent is "necessary but not sufficient" for winning. It takes more to win.