School needs to make up their mind

Discussion in 'Football' started by cuzjacket, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. The M-Train

    The M-Train Helluva Engineer

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Loc:
    Atlanta
    Team:
    GT
    You are ----ing retarded. You would purposefully damage Tech just so we can suck less at football? What the hell is wrong with you? Dumbass. Tech is what it is today (nationally and internationally recognized research institute) because of academics, not because of what 11 men do on a field 12-14 times a year.

    The best solution is the one proposed by gtphd. A large, alumni backed study with recommendations for both the AA and the Hill. Shooting ourselves in the foot just so some people will be less butthurt on ST after ugay beats us in 1 sport is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

    You went so far beyond full retart that there isn't even a term for it. Jesus.

    EDIT: There is a term for it, it's called being a ugay fan. And that's what you are for even suggesting such a ----ing moronic idea.
     
  2. andrew

    andrew Bobby Bonilla's Financial Planner

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    22,601
    Loc:
    New York City
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    Wtf?? Trolling?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     
  3. GoldZ

    GoldZ Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,384
    Loc:
    Lawrenceville, Georgia
    Good points andrew, but the vast majority of people suggesting expanding our majors are not talking about bringing in dumb students, and I suspect you are well aware of this. In our exchanges you never seem to embrace the fact that where we are now in snobbishness, and where we could/should (imo) be, is a far cry from true factory practices. Of course, I very likely have not read all of your posts.

    We can win and sometimes win big with a relatively small increase in numbers of gifted athletes. Especially at 3 or 4 difference making positions. We just won't be able to do it as often as the factories. THIS is our ceiling, not the self imposed midget house we now live in.

    We didn't become, as you say, "healthier academically than we have ever been", overnight. As recently as 2000 we wrapped up TIAR, ok? And we did it with young men who wouldn't even be cleared for a recruiting visit today. Was your degree tarnished? Have we still gone on to become healthier academically than ever?

    Regards,
    Z
     
  4. andrew

    andrew Bobby Bonilla's Financial Planner

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    22,601
    Loc:
    New York City
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    We did wrap up TIAR in 2000, and then we had flunkgate in 2002 (or was it 2003?), where ten football players were found academically ineligible at once.

    Regardless of whether that type of event tarnishes a degree's image, something like it happening again would be extremely damaging to the football program because the NCAA has gotten much harder on academic progress since then.

    Where we differ is the difficulty of the curriculum. From what I gather from your posts, you think that we are not even clearing players for a visit even though they wouldn't fail out. I think that those players you are referencing would have a high probability of failing out given Tech academics.

    Not all of them, of course, but too many to do it. Trying to do it leads to fake courses, cheating, etc, when it turns out that many players can't keep up academically, because the answer of the AA isn't going to be, "Well, they can't do it, I guess they'll fail out." It's going to be "Do whatever we can to keep them eligible."

    I'm all for giving as many exceptions as we can, given that they can complete our curriculum without failing out at a rate that would kill our APR. As you say, there's no reason to self-handicap ourselves arbitrarily, especially when just having more football exceptions won't do anything to the academic side (again, assuming they can actually do the work so that we don't invite a UNC situation).
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  5. ramblinwise1

    ramblinwise1 beware the zealot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2001
    Messages:
    15,103
    Loc:
    1805 Land Lottery Territory
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    I imagine that there are a LOT of committees and advisory boards filled with nerds and socialist profs that Bud would have to deal with to make such a change, but he should try to do it anyway.

    I hope you guys are right proclaiming the way to go is to be a "research" university. I see a place for that, but I would not put all my eggs in that basket. If you ignore the political universe then those other schools who want to take your research money will out politic you in the end. You can't sit back smug in the lab and think you're doing great.

    I'd rather hear about Tech alums starting up businesses and innovating in the real world than the laboratory. I'd rather see more Tech CEOs and fewer Tech pHDs in the Alumni Magazine.

    Also, I imagine the government teat is a lot of that research money and there could be some dramatic realignment of those funds in the near future.
     
  6. GoldZ

    GoldZ Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,384
    Loc:
    Lawrenceville, Georgia
    What concerns me, is that imo the probability is very high, that you know full well that flunkgate involved a lot more than a failure of giving exceptions a chance and then supporting them, yet you still present it as evidence of---there's nothing we can do.

    Do you believe Joe H, Josh N, D Smith, and D Thomas were harmed or caused harm, by virtue of being given a chance? Remember Calvin Tiggle and Marco Coleman's contributions to our MNC team? That MNC did nothing---nothing, but help Tech's overall academic goals.

    I'm sorry that you have had bad experiences trying to assist certain players academically, but a lot of us have done so with positive results, especially while we were still in school. The difference is in how badly the young man wants it and what kind of work ethic history he had in the classroom before being admitted.
     
  7. Diseqc

    Diseqc Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    38,182
    Loc:
    :bigcry:
    Then chose a different ----ing school to pull for. Tech is a research engineering school. You want something else.
     
  8. cyptomcat

    cyptomcat PostBot Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    59,399
    Loc:
    TX
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    Tech is doing all of these too. Also has been expanding majors in economics, public policy, etc.

    How did these players impact our APR (or graduation rate) or would impact our APR (or graduation rate) in today's world when GT is a lot more of a tough environment than 15 years ago for a business, LCC or HTS degree? That's the real problem.

    I don't know the details, but that should be the discussion.
     
  9. GoldZ

    GoldZ Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,384
    Loc:
    Lawrenceville, Georgia
  10. ramblinwise1

    ramblinwise1 beware the zealot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2001
    Messages:
    15,103
    Loc:
    1805 Land Lottery Territory
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    Sorry I was here first...

    I didn't say research was not important, but I don't think its the most important thing. I remember back in the 70s the AJC did a survey of CEOs of Georgia companies and Tech grads outnumbered UGAy grads by a wide margin. And that was just instate.

    I wonder how we'd stack up now.
     
  11. andrew

    andrew Bobby Bonilla's Financial Planner

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    22,601
    Loc:
    New York City
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    I bet very well, nationally. In Georgia maybe not so much. There's no doubt we've become more of a national school as our profile has risen and the world has flattened.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. GATechAE07

    GATechAE07 Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,830
    Loc:
    Atlanta
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    Comments like this make it clear that many in the older generation of alumni have no idea what becoming a nationally respected university requires, nor what an education from a top tier research school means or entails. If you want to go back to being a cute, regionally known technical engineering school, that's fine. Don't expect for the degree to command as much respect as it does now though.
     
  13. QuadF

    QuadF Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,690
    Loc:
    Atlanta
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    I think it's interesting that we're recruiting internationally. it'll be interesting to see if we can pick up more recruits across the us.
     
  14. TechSBP

    TechSBP Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    6,865
    Loc:
    na
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    I've long argued that we should either move to Division III if we want to be consistent with CalTech, MIT, Hopkins. OR, if we want to be more in line with Michigan, Washington, Stanford, Cal, that we should take the steps necessary to win (loser standards, better programs to place athletes in good jobs after graduation, etc).

    We need to make up our minds and do one or the other. Half-way gets us nowhere.

    As I see it, we are a research university. Sport isn't really that important to our mission anymore, and hasn't been since the early 80's. I prefer going to Division III in football.

    That said, I'll still support the program. But if we are going to stay in Division I we need to recognize that a) it isn't about education; b) adjust academic requirements to compete; c) pay players legally (through good jobs when they finish playing); d) commit to winning.
     
  15. ramblinwise1

    ramblinwise1 beware the zealot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2001
    Messages:
    15,103
    Loc:
    1805 Land Lottery Territory
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    Actually more of our alumni stay in state now than in the 70s when 50% of our grads left state. The largest single employer of Tech grads now is probably Ga Tech.
     
  16. ramblinwise1

    ramblinwise1 beware the zealot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2001
    Messages:
    15,103
    Loc:
    1805 Land Lottery Territory
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    That is essentially what I am saying. I could be happy either way actually but if I had to choose, I'd try to compete in Div I. But what we are doing now is silly. And I hope you meant "lower standards"
     
  17. dressedcheeseside

    dressedcheeseside Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,902
    Loc:
    Jacksonville, FL
    Team:
    GT
    from a former GT student and varsity athlete (same guy who does the technical analysis of our offense):

     
  18. wesleyd21

    wesleyd21 Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    13,112
    Loc:
    GA
    Team:
    GT
    We already gots those!
     
  19. KrazieJacket

    KrazieJacket Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    7,231
    Loc:
    Panama City, Florida
    Team:
    GT
    "We are competitive now". I didn't see anything Saturday that would cause me to agree with this. This guys is saying throw money at the issue. That is not going to work when the fan base continues to shrink.
     
  20. ElCidBUZZingFAN

    ElCidBUZZingFAN Dodd-Like

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    16,480
    Loc:
    My house
    Team:
    Georgia Tech
    I get the sense you didn't go/graduate from Tech.

    ***Full disclosure: I didn't either.***

    Anyway, to suggest this as a non-grad is so lame brain retarded.