Scoring defense...what I have been saying

The OP is sound and the smart aleck responders are peter pullers.

We HAVE been bereft of a shut down defense for years. Tenuta's Ds were way overrated. Roof's were inexplicable. We need a STRONG defense, a shut down defense, a best in the country defense, as much as we need a lights out T/O savvy QB with 4.3 speed.

I hope CPJ understands this because I don't really know his record on defense.
 
Yes, Rivals is the place to look to for confirmation of your theories.

After all, under their highly accurate recruiting rankings we should be at the bottom of the ACC, yet, according to their criteria that you use to bolster your theory, we are one of the 17 teams most likely to compete for the MNC.

Brilliant!

If Rivals and Scout ranked political systems they'd be raving over Mussolini, Peron, and Franco because man, those guys knew how to recruit.
 
gnats67 said:
The OP is sound and the smart aleck responders are peter pullers.

We HAVE been bereft of a shut down defense for years. Tenuta's Ds were way overrated.

I hope CPJ understands this because I don't really know his record on defense.
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Tenuta' s defense couldn't stop a middle school's passing game !
He will be part of the reason Weiss is fired after this year.
 
1gtfan said:
Oh gosh, here you go again...OK we are good on defense...I know you are the monitor of monitors on the 2 boards..So OK We are good on defense....We will now be that MNC contender we all want us to be....

Let me get over to rivals, call 680 the fan and anyone else (That will be a long list of people that think we aren't or not even close) and tell them all..The resident know it all...thinks we are good on defense and can contend for championships just the way we are....Speaking of points, what is your point? We are good on defense? We are just fine the way we are ? We don't need to get any better? Don't give me statistics, that's for losers. are we or are are we not, good enough on defense to win championships? Anywhere close to being good enough on defense?
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Typical. Did you read my post? All I said was that you are using an article that sets hurdles for taging favorites for next year's national champion. Tech made every one but scoring defense. You, of course, use this as a justification for your continuing crusade against our defense (in particular Wommack). My ONLY point, that I CLEARLY point out, is that if you're going to use that article to prove anything you also should at least acknowledge that we missed meeting that hurdle by 3 POINTS given up over the whole season. BTW the article you use is purely based on statistics, so you're a loser?

I agree that we want the best defense we can have. My only argument with you all through this is that last year's defense is comparable to EVERY DEFENCE TECH HAS HAD IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. So what you're saying is you want us to improve on what we've been doing at Tech since the early 90s. Last season was better than the O'Leary years and comparable to the Gailey/Tenuta years. If that's what you're saying I get it. But your insinuations about Wommack in past threads, particularly in light of the massive injury issues we faced last year, are out of line IMO. He did just as well as Tenuta ever did with more challenges.
 
If your reasoning for scoring defense will get us in the National Championship then tell me this. How come Oklahoma's scoring defense averaged 24.5 ppg and GT's only 18.8 ppg last year but yet they made it to the national championship. One stat i find more important than scoring defense would be time of possesion, that is how oklahoma made it to the national championship. Plus the fact that they scored on almost every drive.
 
1gtfan said:
Tenuta' s defense couldn't stop a middle school's passing game !
He will be part of the reason Weiss is fired after this year.
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Tenuta defenses are predicated on the fact that he's going to throw rock every single time. Once an OC figures out that he should throw paper, the game is done. I think he's an improvement for ND, but I still think Fat Chuck will get fired this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Tenuta hung around there for a while longer though.
 
1gtfan said:
Tenuta' s defense couldn't stop a middle school's passing game !
He will be part of the reason Weiss is fired after this year.
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Well I finally have an idea of where you're coming from. If what you're saying is that we need a defense like the ones we had in '90 and '91 I understand. It would be nice, but it's been since then that we've had that kind of team.
 
Heck, I agree just based on the fact that I'm not purely sold on Wommack yet. Granted, we had a young LB core and secondary last year, but I'd like to see what he does over the span of the next few years. I've grown accustomed to tough GT defense, and I want it to stay that way.
 
ncjacket said:
Well I finally have an idea of where you're coming from. If what you're saying is that we need a defense like the ones we had in '90 and '91 I understand. It would be nice, but it's been since then that we've had that kind of team.
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I'm sorry about being a little mean with you this morning, I think it is somewhat of a misunderstanding between you and I..I'm a perfectionist and purist, I believe in good defense (I know there a lot of people including rivals that agree with me here, that we have to get much better on defense to be a contender)

You have just come across to me from day1 when P.J. got here that offense is all that matters...remember now (Let's don't get off on a rant again) I broke the news from a source, board member that P.J. was coming and I was 100% behind it...am STILL 100% behind P.J.
But I was concerned slightly that at Navy he had 0 and i mean ZERO defense and that could not be the case here at GT...I don't think it will be cause he has the athletes and can get them here....But you have just come across as caring less about the defense and making injury or other excuses, forgive me for possibly misreading you.

As to defense here at GT, I know and believe we have not had a real stout defense since the 80's under Don Lindsey (yeah in 1990 we were ok but darn lucky we didn't play the type schedule and calibre teams we do now or else we would have been exposed)
I was not a big Tenuta fan...he was ok but not the calibre of a real DC like Foster, Muschamp, Van Gorder, Kiffin, Andrews exct...( there are guys out there that are kick butt DC's and we at GT could land one of them. Darn near did, a lot of people don't realize before Wommack was hired. He was a 2nd/3rd choice guy.

I was mad after a few games with Wommack and still have some serious reservations as to him being a long term solution, (that is why he is on a year to year contract) I think P.J. will make a change after this year if it doesn't work out..the sad thing is, I think we explode on offense this year and the defense will lose us 2 games this year (I hope I'm wrong) or else we could be knocking on the door of a MNC THIS year...But, all this is moot if, Wommack proves me wrong...Of course as a trueblue Gt fan I'm rooting for him to prove me wrong..no ego here and I want him to prove me wrong, just a love for GT football....
 
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1gtfan said:
I'm sorry about being a little mean with you this morning, I think it is somewhat of a misunderstanding between you and I..I'm a perfectionist and purist, I believe in good defense (I know there a lot of people including rivals that agree with me here, that we have to get much better on defense to be a contender)

You have just come across to me from day1 when P.J. got here that offense is all that matters...remember now (Let's don't get off on a rant again) I broke the news from a source, board member that P.J. was coming and I was 100% behind it...am STILL 100% behind P.J.
But I was concerned slightly that at Navy he had 0 and i mean ZERO defense and that could not be the case here at GT...I don't think it will be cause he has the athletes and can get them here....But you have just come across as caring less about the defense and making injury or other excuses, forgive me for possibly misreading you.

As to defense here at GT, I know and believe we have not had a real stout defense since the 80's under Don Lindsey (yeah in 1990 we were ok but darn lucky we didn't play the type schedule and calibre teams we do now or else we would have been exposed)
I was not a big Tenuta fan...he was ok but not the calibre of a real DC like Foster, Muschamp, Van Gorder, Kiffin, Andrews exct...( there are guys out there that are kick butt DC's and we at GT could land one of them. Darn near did, a lot of people don't realize before Wommack was hired. He was a 2nd/3rd choice guy.

I was mad after a few games with Wommack and still have some serious reservations as to him being a long term solution, (that is why he is on a year to year contract) I think P.J. will make a change after this year if it doesn't work out..the sad thing is, I think we explode on offense this year and the defense will lose us 2 games this year (I hope I'm wrong) or else we could be knocking on the door of a MNC THIS year...But, all this is moot if, Wommack proves me wrong...Of course as a trueblue Gt fan I'm rooting for him to prove me wrong..no ego here and I want him to prove me wrong, just a love for GT football....
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Good post...totally agreed....Navy's horrid D under CPJ was due to lack of talent. We don't have that problem here. We are in good shape at linebacker and the secondary. I also dont think there will be a significant drop off at Dline. Some on here give MJ way too much praise. Read the atricle on the ajc's (puke) website about MJ's draft status. I totally agree with what was written. I am terrified we will revert back to the days of Roof and Fridge. I like us to score points but I hate shootouts.
 
Like I said, I have a better idea where you're coming from now. I agree that a defense that gives up 14 or less would be great. I don't know how reasonable it will be that we get there but it's always a great goal to set. My interpretation of your earlier posts was an anti-Wommack thing comparing him to Tenuta. I evidently missed your point. My only view is that I don't think our defense regressed other than because of injuries as the year went on and that we were much better at takeaways and much more versatile than any of his teams were. I want to see Wommack over the course of a year where he isn't force feeding new DBs and LBs into every game and having to dumb down his defense to compensate. Maybe he still doesn't have it, but I remember some of his Sou Miss defenses that were killers. We'll see, and I agree PJ won't sit tight if he isn't happy with the results he's getting.

One other thing though, I do think the offense is slightly more important in today's game. Sometimes, the other team just gets hot or scores freak TDs (STs, broken plays, pure luck, etc.) At least now I feel like we can make it up, unlike the Gailey years when I always thought we were doomed if we were more than 10 down.
 
gth816f said:
Well of course the bottom line is the score is all that matters. But when you try to get into the REASON a team is unsuccessful, then everything changes. If you just look at a defense's PPG let in, see that it's higher than other teams', and say that consequently the defense is doing a poor job, you could be completely off.

We could decrease our scoring defense by a ton if we didn't go for big plays on offense...it probably wouldn't be too hard to get into the top 15. In that case, is the bottom line how many points you gave up? Of course not. Just because you changed your offensive game to improve your scoring defense doesn't mean you actually improved your defense. That's called treating the symptom(the total amount of points let in) rather than the disease(poor defensive play.)

But it's a fact of life that if our offense is putting up 30+ ppg with a couple of one play/two play touchdown drives per game, our defense is NOT going to be top 15 purely on points let in per game. To say the only stat that matters is how many points you let in is wrong...the only stat that REALLY matters is if you scored more points than the other team. Football's a team sport, even though the defense and offense aren't on the field together.

I'm confident(and maybe tonight when I have time I will do this) that if you charted offensive PPG scored vs. defensive PPG allowed for D1 bowl teams, you would see a direct relationship between the two. Now, the relationship would be less pronounced for teams with a better defense(the ultimate goal), but it would still be there.
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Agreed that scoring defense is a stat that wraps up more than the skill of the defense. I have seen good defenses with bad scoring stats also because of offensive turnovers as well as quick scoring offenses.

Conversely, a bad defense can look better than it is if the offense is playing ball control to reduce exposure.
 
ncjacket said:
we were much better at takeaways and much more versatile than any of his teams were. I want to see Wommack over the course of a year where he isn't force feeding new DBs and LBs into every game and having to dumb down his defense to compensate. Maybe he still doesn't have it, but I remember some of his Sou Miss defenses that were killers. We'll see, and I agree PJ won't sit tight if he isn't happy with the results he's getting.
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You got that right about the takeaways...we were good there in that dept. similiar to how we were under Edsal...I do think Edsal may have been the 2nd best DC we have had only to Lindsey...
i just get very envious looking at guys like Foster, muschamp and van gorder, these are guys that are just mean and nasty and somehow come up with a kick butt defense every year regardless of injuries or other factors..we will just have to wait till the end of this year to truly gauge Wommack...but for sure, we were good at takeaways and that Fsu game after them running up and down the field on us it saved us (still wish I had stormed the field like others)
 
Well, Edsal's defense also gave up more points than either Tenuta's or Wommack's have so not sure where that leaves us.
 
1gtfan said:
You got that right about the takeaways...we were good there in that dept. similiar to how we were under Edsal...I do think Edsal may have been the 2nd best DC we have had only to Lindsey...
i just get very envious looking at guys like Foster, muschamp and van gorder, these are guys that are just mean and nasty and somehow come up with a kick butt defense every year regardless of injuries or other factors..we will just have to wait till the end of this year to truly gauge Wommack...but for sure, we were good at takeaways and that Fsu game after them running up and down the field on us it saved us (still wish I had stormed the field like others)
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The best DC I've seen at TECH was Bud Carson.
 
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