Team Chemistry: Are we actually better off with the academic casualities?

[Gold Rush]

I'm putting several different thoughts together.

1. CG has made reference several times to different factions or groups within the team last year, as opposed to overall team unity

2. I believe its POSSIBLE that SOME of the players who didn't make the academics COULD have been players with less emphasis on TEAM, and/or perhaps some of these players were not 100% behind CG and the new staff (this has historically happened at Tech with coaching changes)

3. Now, with the losses in personnel, there is a smaller group of players, AND their backs are against the wall. IMO, in this scenario, its easy to see an "Us vs. Them" mentality develop, which would enhance chemistry. This, combined with low expectations, could really enhance team chemistry

For whatever reason, its clear to me that this group is playing HARD on every down, and there seems to be a cohesiveness that I haven't seen ina while...Just speculating as to the reasons behind it.....

 

[BEESerk]

I wouldn't say we are better off at all. Those guys very well could have made the difference in the last 7 minutes of the F$U game.

However, I know what you are getting at. It is sort of like what they call the "Peyton Manning Syndrome".

UT won a National Championship right after he left because the "team chemistry" was greatly improved. In that regards, I agree.

 

[LLCoolJacket]

GoldRush, I agree with everything you have written. Not only do I believe that the chemistry is better after flunkout, I think last years team was full of dissension.

Wins and losses notwithstanding, this team of survivors will become very close knit, and many will stay that way the rest of their lives. (IMO)

Hopefully, the players on this team are setting the tone for "this is how we do things at Georgia Tech" for the future Jackets coming in.

Playing with pride and exuding character is contagious!
Great thread GoldRush.

 

[GoldZ]

3-0 makes for pretty good chemistry. THWG

 

[Clito Jacket]

I think the academic losses are part of it, but I think it's bigger than that. Ending the season with the blowout loss to UGA and the bowl loss and then having to live with those two the whole off season. Injuries to key players. Fans being critical of Coach Gailey. Media nearly unanimous in saying this team would lose more than they win. I think that all of that stuff together, and maybe some more things that I'm not thinking of now, served to create an esprit de corps among those that are left. The players and coaches seem to genuinely like one another. There have also been hints that they are angry that so many people don't think they are a good football team and want badly to prove to the world that they are. So in a way you're right. I would love to have Tony and some of the others on the field this season, but the side effects haven't been all bad.

 

[AWB]

Hey guys: The team has to play with the players they have on hand - no choice, but to survive - and they are playing very well. Their pride and their skills are showing up on the field. However, to disregard the absence of Hargraves and Hollings, (plus a couple of others), who did not lay down and quit in the last few games at the end of last year is not being a realist. The academic losses cost this team dearly, and the team is working diligently to overcome the lack of depth. "If" we avoid injury, the team will continue to improve - depth is a luxury that we do not have this year. Those tackles/sacks and those extra rushing yards have a big impact in every game, not to mention the rest / substitution factor between series. I like the "refuse to lose" attitude of the team - that's terrific. I like the entire team, win or lose, period.

To say that academic attrition has not affected the team this year is just as ridiculous as David Braine infamously saying, "Georgia Tech's academic reputaion is all hype." And let's hope that the messages that reflect this "Oh it's not a Big Deal" attitude are not an effort to justify and forget David Braine's lack of respect for our athletic and academic tradition. What's he going to neglect next? So far, his bowl game preferences just could not suck enough. And wouldn't it be something else "if" this team can exceed all naysayers with a bowl invitation at the end of the season?

A win over "Athens, Inc." would suit me just fine. Go Jackets.

 

[Buzz Bomb]

Originally posted by AWB:

To say that academic attrition has not affected the team this year is just as ridiculous as David Braine infamously saying, "Georgia Tech's academic reputaion is all hype." And let's hope that the messages that reflect this "Oh it's not a Big Deal" attitude are not an effort to justify and forget David Braine's lack of respect for our athletic and academic tradition.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">

Excuse me... he said WHAT? I must have completely missed something here. We are talking about our AD Braine, right? From what I understand based on input from other sources, Braine's salary coupled with all of his annual perks, gets him right around the $500,000/yr mark for his Tech compensation package (a lot of my DAWG friends were incensed because Vince Dooley only brought down ~$300,000/yr vs. Braine's cool half a mil). Even if the figure is off a tad... you would think that he had a little better grip on the academic reality of the situation. A lot of other folks (and schools) recognize that Tech is for real. What gives with our AD?

Are his personal credentials so outstanding that he has the unequivocal right to criticize our school?

Please forgive if this is rehashing old history for the board crowd... I must have just had my head in the sand somewhere along the line.

Buzz Bomb

 

[ncjacket]

Supposedly Braine said WTTE to someone during their exit interview as reported by someone on StingTalk. I haven't seen anything to support the claim, although I'm not dismissing the claim out of hand. I haven't seen it anywhere but on this board so you can draw your own conclusions. BTW I do believe that if he in fact did say that, he should be fired today. (should have been when he said it.)

 

[Buzz Bomb]

I generally don't believe anything that I hear and only 15% of what I actually see. I would tend to always give the benefit of the doubt until any rumor is substantiated.

However, just the fact that this nasty rumor is out there does not do justice to GT. Can you imagine the potential reaction of a new recruit to an offer of a GT scholarship? How would you answer a question like, "Why should I come play at a school that even the school AD doesn't believe is academically solid?" I would like to see this rumor put to bed quickly... either prove it or kill it (the ole putup or shutup scenario)! This rumor does nothing to help our academic or athletic program image.

Pure logic tells me that as many $ as GT pays Braine annually, he's too smart to bite the hand that feeds him. I really hope logic prevails on this one.

Just 2 cents from a Old

Buzz Bomb

 

[romegajacket]

Gold Rush,
You have made a very interesting post here. I have often wondered about this thing too. Matter of fact, the thought crossed my feeble mind just after the news of the academic problems came out. You have some very good replies ahead of mine also. Team chemistry is IMHO, a must to have. We could recruit blue chippers til the cows come home but if they can't be team men, they are of no use to us. Another thing, which I am not accusing any S/A of anything, but when one enters GT, then it is a given that he must excel in academics. That's it, bottom line, it is a must. SO, if he doesn't carry this part of the deal, does that carry over into his performance on the field? I think it may very well do so.
Excellent post you have, thanks and keep up the good work.

 

[AWB]

For the record, he did say that to an very important person of responsibility that was leaving the GTAA. That person could not believe what he was hearing during the interview - he knew better - and he could not believe that Braine had the ego and the ignorance to be so brash in stating that "Georgia Tech's academic reputation is all hype". Braine "did say" those very words, and insiders that have served in the GTAA know the truth. How do you, or anyone else for that matter, translate Braine's justification of the removal of the "GTAA academic support staff" right after O'Leary left? That did happened!!! And ten football players were shuffled to the street as a direct result of Braine's "attitude and actions" as an irresponsible A.D.

Do not categorize this as rumor, it is fact, not to be dismissed as trivial - it attacks the heart and soul of our pride and tradition, especially in regard to our student athletes and our revenue sports.

Money is what makes big time athletics work, but dismissing who we are, and how we got here, is a fatal mistake. Whether it's selling sacred Letterman's Club seats for a measley buck on e-bay, or rudely spouting off at alumni that question how he approaches ticket sales for football games, or using extremely weak justification of saying that 29 peer institutions operate the exact same way - David Braine has proven that he is willing to prostitute our tradition for short term gain.

We are, and have always been, "leaders" among peers", we are Georgia Tech - not to be discounted for profit - not to be counted as just another institution - not to be dismantled or reduced to mediocrity by the dismissal of our pride and tradition. David Braine could care less about our school's reputation. Everything, every issue, is about him, not about what's good for Georgia Tech. He's trying too hard to make himself look good, notice how he is always covering his actions with excuses, and we, the school, are suffering from the results.

So "putting a plug in this comment" is no less than sticking one's head in the sand. Let's see how intelligent we are,...... complacency by alumni is not what's needed right now. Commitment to our tradition and insistence that our tradition be respected is the answer!!!

 

[ncjacket]

No opinion at all on Braine's comments to whoever it was that was leaving. But I will say that I don't believe an AD could make the changes to the academic support staff on his own. In fact, my gut feeling, based mainly from working at another ACC institution for 11 years, is that it started with the academic side of the house. Maybe not Clough althought that would also make sense. Not saying that Braine didn't support it, or that he wasn't involved in the details, but I can't see him having the clout to mess with academic issues on his own. Unless Tech is totally unlike other institutions. Just my opinion.

 

[Buzz Bomb]

Originally posted by AWB:

Do not categorize this as rumor, it is fact, not to be dismissed as trivial - it attacks the heart and soul of our pride and tradition, especially in regard to our student athletes and our revenue sports.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">AWB:
Hold on a darn jacket minute... this is the very first that I have heard about this issue. Categorizing it as 'rumor' until it is substantiated, or proven is neither unintelligent, illogical or unreasonable. Tech trained me to get the facts before I commit. I have no reason to question your integrity or facts... I just need more info before I formulate any firm opinions on this issue. Please understand, if I found out this was true, I would be absolutely furious!!!

However, back to logic and the way that we were trained... Can you tell us exactly who (and when) in the GTAA that the comments were made to? Did they leave of their own accord or were they dismissed by the AD? Did anyone personally overhear these comments being made to this individual? I believe that more factual information is in order since this is the first occurance of any knowledge that I have of this situation. Does the university President's office have any knowledge of these comments? I would be very interested to see if they agree with the ADs view of the world. I think the case would be more solid if the published facts were a little more defined and readily available for analysis. Can you please help to provide that for us? Outside of these few board threads, this issue does not appear to have wide-spread exposure within the Tech community. Any feedback, greatly appreciated.

BB

 

[AWB]

Dear BeeBomb:

The exiting employee of the GTAA left on his own accord. He was not fired or dismissed, in fact, his contribution to GT Athletics was well respected and his services are missed. And the commits are confirmed and very reliable. Do you recall Doug Weaver's antics while he served as A.D.? No one in the mass alumni population knew what was going on until the garbage hit the fan - Braine tries the same stuff in many, many ways - and nothing's changed in regard to alumni awareness. This academic comment by Braine ocurred after O'Leary's departure - it's not rumor, or part of a right wing conspiracy, or a revolution of pissed off alumni - it's just what happened, and why stuff has happened. I agree with NCJ that Wayne Clough had to have knowledge of the change in academic support at the GTAA., But the decision to cut back came from David Braine, and the initiated changes were about one thing - cutting dollars away from the operating budget. Look at the ridiculous straws that are being grasp by the Athletic Association to generate small amounts of short term dollars - while spitting in the face of our legends. Braine, and his circle of imported cronies, are showing "zero" respect for who we are. David Braine neglected to grasp what Georgia Tech is all about.

You mentioned "how we were trained", and I have to fire back with a "do your homework response". We did, (and you know this very well), uncover every possible variable to formulate true equations. Verify, verify, verify - right. I just happen to know the inside of a very upsetting set of circumstances that run the Edge Center today. Why??? Because I dug deeply into why, and I personally know several key components that know the truth. I don't back off on what I've said, and I am quite comfortable in pointing to the numerous, and apparently mounting, episodes of stupidity being launched by the management of the Edge Center. If this upsets you, it ought to! Why do you think I put it on the board. But I'm glad you care about this place as much as I do, and as much as every member on this board does.

 

[Buzz Bomb]

AWB:

Don't dispute that you've done your homework well or that you've verified the data. And yes, I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I care very much about my school. Additionally, you'll never catch me speaking badly of the opinions of a Tech man. I have a great deal of respect for my fellow classmates and colleagues.

Having said that, I'm still in the process of piecing this puzzle together, so please bear with me. Here is what I "think" I know so far:
1) AD seemed to have been hand-picked by Clough.
2) AD seems to have "Big Mouth". A comment of the scope and magnitude that you described IS NOT a Freudian slip of the tongue. That is a real attitude problem inherent in the AD. It also does not reflect reality.
3) From other posts that I have read on this board, not everyone is necessarily anti-AD. Some have described some decent changes that have occurred during his tenure.
4) This knowledge is NOT widely known (I realize that you are attempting to change that).
5) Some of my old, personal Tech classmates have privately commented that the current AD was cleaning up from the Public Relations fiasco left behind by O'Leary (referring to the resume padding incident... not commenting on his coaching abilities). They were fairly miffed that Notre Dame had to point out to Tech that we hadn't really done a sufficient job in screening this guy in the first place. They think current AD is in cleanup mode.
6) Other university presidents are dynamically modifying their view of athletics (I'm sure the reasons are different in each case). They tend to be getting back to the philosophy that, "Athletics is a priviledge, and not an absolute right". Recent case in the news is Vandy. Even Adams is reigning in UGA athletics, much to the displeasure of the athletic fan base.

Enough ramblin (no pun intended)...
Question is... Where do we go from here? It is not immediately clear to me that complaints about Braine directed to Clough would even be taken seriously, since Clough hand-picked this guy. Probably the best that could achieved via this channel would be some type of behavior modification and not a dismissal. Alternativey, all of us loyal Techies could refuse to support the athletic program but that would just hurt the folks that we care the most about, i.e., the student athletes, Lettermen, etc. I could not personally support any effort that would have any negative direct impact on the student athletes.

So... where does that currently leave us? Hell... I'm an engineer and not an expert on this type of thing, so I simply don't have an answer. It appears to me that you have done the right thing in terms of bringing this information forward in a public forum. I applaud you for that. However, from living in corporate America for way too many years, I have come to appreciate that large corporations tend to operate on a "concensus" basis. Only ideas that can be "sold" tend to move forward and become reality. Isolated, individual contributors often tend to go nowhere unless they can sell their idea or philosophy. This dialogue (your comments and mine) are clearly public. So, I guess the best approach is to respectfully request for input from other Techies on the board in terms of obtaining possible solutions to this issue. Anything that can be done about Braine? Any 'desire' among Techies to address this problem? Suggestions? Advice???

Is there a concensus among colleagues that Braine is a problem? If so, can you suggest any type/method of corrective action that would be supported in large numbers (such that it would be meaningful)?

I'll finish with this thought... Once had a boss that shook his finger in my face and yelled, "Don't tell me you can't DO something. Tell me HOW you're going to DO IT. Don't come to me and tell me we've got a problem unless you can also bring me a damn SOLUTION".

Solutions anyone???

BB
An Old

Techie

 

[Buzz Bomb]

LL:

Sounds like a great idea to me, but how are you proposing to do that? I don't see enough 'shareholders' stepping up to the plate and banding together to really make much of a substantive difference at this point. If you do not have the total support of the CEO (Clough) in terms of eliminating the problem, I would have to assume that the effort would go nowhere fast.

At this juncture, this appears to very closely mirror what I see going on at UGA as we speak. The football fans (and others) want the university president (Adams) out. They are using the internet boards to vent their frustration and anger. In reality, I don't see the fan opinions swaying the Governor or the Board of Regents much... so Adams is still there and pushing his agenda ahead (Adams is in, Dooley is out). Shoot the messenger if you think it is warranted, but I see the same type of scenario going on at Tech (only on a much smaller scale). If Clough wants Braine here, I don't see how only a few 'shareholders' can make much of a difference unless they are really holding onto a large number of corporate shares in their collective portfolio. Other than a couple of posts, I haven't seen the internet masses rise in discontent just yet. I suppose time will tell.

Just want you to know that I really resent Braine making that silly comment. It was not very intelligent or accurate. But I believe that the truth of the matter is that it will take a lot of folks banding together and pushing this issue for anything substantive to be done about it. I have not seen that critical mass evolve on this board yet. I have to assume that silence on the issue equates to being satisfied with the status quo.

Just trying to be realistic about the situation. Not trying to disagree or to piss anybody off with my personal opinions. If my take on this situation is indeed alienating anyone, please let me know and I'll refrain from posting anything directly related to this issue. Plenty of other fun things to chew the fat about... like football. Alternatively, if this issue has been 'hashed to death' prior to my arriving on this board, let me know that as well.

BB

 

[LLCoolJacket]

Buzz Bomb, If you want to use the large corporation anology, here is my solution to the Braine problem, and he is a problem.

As a shareholder of GTAA, inc. my vote goes to removing dear Dave now, and replacing him with someone who will protect the core values of GTAA,inc. while improving return on shareholder investment.

In other words, get him out any way possible.

 

[AWB]

Dear Buzz Bomb:
The public relations clean up is a scam!! David Braine created that mess on his own. And now he's attempting to appear as if he is accomplishing something for Georgia Tech, when actually his efforts are for himself and his own reputation as an A.D. Why do I know better? Because I met and spoke personally with the attorney for Notre Dame Athletics - (last Septmeber ('02), in South Bend at the Notre Dame - Purdue Game) - I know how and why O'Leary's resume was exposed. A spokes person from the GTAA, on behalf of David Braine, contacted the Notre Dame AA directly and gave instructions on where to find gaps in O'leary's resume. (Remember, Braine had the Sports information department revamp all profiles on key personal when he arrived at Georgia Tech - O'Leary's was reveamped with newly included inaccuracies). After our intial and obvious topics of discussion on the O'Leary debacle, the attorney from ND asked me a question that I will never forget, "How do you and your alumni feel about your athletic director?" To which I asked, "Why?" And his follow up was, "He had one of his people contact us to reveal the discrepencies in O'Leary's record - that's what led to our investigation." Then he said this, "Why would a man do such a thing to someone that served Georgia Tech so well as Head Coach?" He ended by saying, "You should be embarrassed about the A.D. in in our opinion".

David Braine was very angry when O'Leary left, and to make his point and to "get the final word", Braine made certain that O'Leary could not find employment. He attempted to ruin his reputation by using his imported cronies inside the GTAA. Notice, Braine never spoke in glowing words about O'Leary's coaching accomplishments at the time of O'Leary's departure. And he did not even attempt, before a replacement coach was located, to bring O'Leary back to Georgia Tech when the Notre Dame deal fell through - even though Braine knew everything about O'leary's resume.

And the ignorance exhibited by David Braine continues to misrepresent our alumni and our student athletes. Wayne Clough knows this entire story because I contacted him directly with a cerified letter. And I received "no response" from Mr. Clough at all - no challenge to my comments, no correction of facts, no invitation to prove anything - just silence!! Something is very wrong. Between these middle aged men trying to protect their egos and their poor management decisions, we are indeed in very deep dung.

What happened against Clemson didn't surprise me at all. We, as a school (probable engineering syndrome) in total, have historically fallen victim to our own ego's over the years by feeling athletically superior after outstanding performances - it's the nature of the beast so to speak. Young kids, loss of intensity over time due to lack of maturity, and a game plan fed to Tommy Bowden directly from his Dad, Bobby (employment protection from potential dismissal by Clemson alumni), all played a role in the dismantlement of our football team's structure. So, there will be other Saturdays. But watch David Braine throw Gaiiley to the wolves before admitting that he, the A.D., contributed to the disadvantages Gailey has had to handle as head coach.

 

[Buzz Bomb]

Originally posted by AWB:

And the ignorance exhibited by David Braine continues to misrepresent our alumni and our student athletes. Wayne Clough knows this entire story because I contacted him directly with a cerified letter. And I received "no response" from Mr. Clough at all - no challenge to my comments, no correction of facts, no invitation to prove anything - just silence!! Something is very wrong. Between these middle aged men trying to protect their egos and their poor management decisions, we are indeed in very deep dung.

<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Dear AWB:
Thanks for the post... great background info.
Our UGA friends are dealing with their similar (President Adams) situation by flying an airplane over Sanford stadium on game day that says, "AdamSorryDawg". Maybe we need one flying over Bobby Dodd that says, "Lame Braine".

Sorry, I just don't have any good answers for the problem. Just concerned that any effort to rid the university of Braine will go nowhere without the total support of Clough. That does not appear to be forthcoming at this time.

Oh... and please don't forget, "Middle aged men protecting those extraordinarily high salaries".

Buzz Bomb