Time to Have One of Those "G. Bush to France" talks with Duke, Wake

F

Father WASP

Flats Noob
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
745
It chaps me that the schools that play in empty stadiums and focus on basketball year round stand in the way of expansion.

If I were Swofford it might be time to say vote for it or we go with plan B. What is plan B? We kick your butt out and open up two or three other spots and basically merge the best of the ACC and Big East. Sorry, France and Germany (Duke and Wake), you didnt get a piece of the new pie.

North - Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech

South - Miami, FSU, Ga. Tech, Clemson, NC State, UNC
 
Father: You are correct! Times they are changing and the basketball clout is getting evened out with football clout! I truly hope our Commissioner makes a stand if indeed this is what happens. This is too good of an opportunity to let a few schools filabuster!!
 
Yes, Times are a changing they knew that when they invited Tech into the ACC. They knew Tech was a power in football a little down but overall a power. So just have the heart to heart with the Dook's WF, UNC and NCS. Tell them either lead, follow or get to hel_ out of the way.
 
That would be a little harsh. If you don't vote our way, your out, if you do, you stay? What kind of choice is that? It sounds like the hangup is BB and tickets to the useless ACC tourney. I say we make them an offer they can't refuse, we will give them our allotment of ACC tourney tickets and they can vote for expansion.

If that doesn't work, then we kick them out!!!
 
Hate to break this to you - but if you kick out Duke and Wake, UNC and State go with em. And the reality will be that they will be telling us we don't get a piece of their pie anymore = not the other way around. Given the economics of college athletics right now, the $$$s are in BB and not FB. That may change with the demise of the BCS and some sort of revised Bowl system/playoff system but right now the $$$s are in the ACC's cut of the NCAA BB TV $$s and the incredible ACC BB TV package.

Also a bit of history. The ACC (read the despised NC schools) took a wreck of an athletic department into the ACC as pretty much a reclamation project (remember the real discussions of going to division 1A football?) and through the conference split pumped millions of dollars into this place before they ever got any return. I don't know how you pay back people that have been incredibly good to you, but I don't do it by being arrogant and blowing them off.

Believe it or not, we have a pretty good deal in the ACC. Maybe expansion can be harnessed to make it a better deal ALL AROUND, maybe not. But you do it within the family and not by overestimating our value and trying to blow up a good thing.
 
Not sure what numbers are driving your opinion - that BB is money tree, not football, but it just ain't true. The money Miami drives in football overwhelms anything a Basketball tournament or Basketball TV numbers bring. Dookies and Wakesters can pretty much believe that the whole world cares on a winters night, but the truth is the big money is in football BCS revenues and as the SEC has found out - a championship game and super match-ups in the regular season.

As for this place being a wreck. I disagree. Georgia Tech in it's worst days has never been a charity case. Having individual fans yell out on an ACC regional telecast of a Duke footall game is or a billboard adverstising 4 season tickets for a total of $100 qualifies for a wreck in my book.

To satisfy everyone, we could give them a new conference for basketball-

West - Vandy, Memphis, Tulane, Wake Forest
East - Duke, Georgetown, St. Johns, UConn

Football winner to play winner of the Southern Conference in a championship game.
 
Agree FW. I still say let the snuff dippers either lead, follow, or get to hades out of the way. Football is and will always be the big ticket venue in college sports.
 
Based on 2000 tax statements by the conference the ACC earned $44,505,517 from football and $35,577,958 from basketball.

Just for comparison purposes the SEC took in $67,047,280 from football and $26,100,523 from basketball.

The ACC paid out right at $8M per member in 2000 and the SEC $6.5M. Of course, the other side of this picture is what the schools earn on their own before getting the conference split. If football draws better in the SEC for example they make more on the gate. Wonder how much consideration that's given in the decision? That is, will we draw better in an expanded conference? I for one think we'd draw better for Miami and Syracuse than we do for Duke and Wake.
 
For the sake of clarification Wake Forest has not been one of the naysayers. When FSU came aboard it was the TARHOLES and the DOOKIES that opposed. It has also been reported by one writer that we need one more vote to approve expansion and as usual the opposition was led by Duke and Carolina
and the writer speculated that Virginia was the other although he did indicate that Virginia's mind could be changed according to his opinion.
So from everything that I have read Wake Forest hasn't been a stumbling block to expansion. Maybe one of you guys or gals have some info that has escaped me.
 
Buck is right. I assumed that one of the silents was Wake but have no confirmation. UNC and Duke were the two publicly opposed - the others haven't been named.
 
Most Wake fans seem to be opposed but reportedly the AD and President are supportive of expansion.
 
Wake will not go along if they are in a different division from the other Carolina schools. That is their minimum requirement. Any logical division split would separate the "Big Four".

UVA will not go along if Va Tech is one of the other two Big East teams, no matter what they have to say to be politically correct to the public. This is a balancing act, and what comes out will not be logical.
 
I can see the four North Carolina schools wanting to be in the same division because they have always played each other. I can also see Virginia not wanting VT in the same conference.

My personal preference would be a new conference where there is only one school from each State in the conference.

smile.gif
 
NCJ - I have to admit I have never seen numbers of ACC finances (and I have seen a bunch) where the FB revenue was bigger than the BB revenue. The numbers I have seen are around the following exerted from a CBS sportsline article

" ... The overall regular season and tournament basketball conference revenue is critical to the business model. The Atlantic Coast Conference is a $100 million business -- generating more than $28 million from Raycom/Jefferson Pilot Sports for regular season basketball rights (a 65 percent increase over the previous year), $5.3 million from the ACC Tournament, and $12.8 million from the NCAA Tournament.

To compare, the football program produces $21.1 million from regular season television games and $20.4 million from bowl games (including the 2002 Maryland Terrapins BCS appearance)."

Reference link http://cbs.sportsline.com/general/story/6262652

That makes it more $45 M BB and $40 M FB. And from the FB bowl revenue you have to deduct the $6-$7 million in travel money given directly to the participating teams to cover their expenses which comes off the top before distribution. I am sure there is some in the BB side as well for the NCAA tourney but not more than $.5 - $1 M. That makes it more like $44 BB and $34 FB for distribution.

Now as you point out that is before gate reciepts for both FB and BB which are held by the individual schools. Would we do better with Syracuse and Miami vs. Duke and Wake at home - probably yes for those games assuming we have a good team. But we would have to replace Auburn and other old SEC schools with directional powder puffs (like the SEC schools do) to balance our schedule. In some ways upgrading the conference will simply replace strong OOC games with stronger in conference games so one can argue the overall attendance effect. In reality I think our attendance is due more to how good our team is and how well we think they are going to do rather than the competition. But in either case, I don't believe Syracuse or Miami will travel well to Atlanta and we will have to fill the stadium ourselves as opposed to counting on the hordes from Auburn, etc.

So I stand by my statement that right now it is BB that drives the ACC coffers. Given the $6 B NCAA tourney TV contract and the ACC TV contract that makes sense. Could it change with a new FB league and with a new FB Bowl setup/playoff/confernce championship? Sure but that is playing to a new dynamic and will require replacing significant BB revenue driven primarily from the schools this post started out talking about booting out.

And it brings me back to my other point. The NC schools were the ones that bankrolled the resurection of GT athletics from the failed independent FB experiment. I for one don't want to walk around talking about how idiotic these schools are, denegrating them and talking about how we ought to boot em out when they gave som much to us. They brought us into their family when we needed them a whole lot more than they needed us. If FB is to be the wave of the future we owe them the same courtesy.
 
YJacket, the article you linked is more recent that the numbers I have so I will defer to them. Actually you can sort of match them up, especially with the note in the article that the basketball revenue was up 65%. My article shows the TV package at about $17M, yours has it at $28M. However, the numbers quoted for both the TV package and bowl games for football were both higher than in 2000 so I would expect total football revenue is approaching $50M.

Regardless, the point is still the same. The conference needs to maintain at least the level of revenue per team now enjoyed. The question is whether that can be done with the current lineup. I would argue that the basketball side of the ledger may have topped off...Can we increase TV revenues again?...can we get more teams into the NCAA? But the football side will likely fall with the next round of TV contracts. Several sources have stated the ACC got a real windfall last time around that won't happen again with the current lineup. We need Miami and others to help with that payout, get a championship game, and improve the percentages of getting a second BCS game. At least that's my view.

BTW I also agree that we don't need to be threatening the NC schools or downplaying what they have done for us. If they hadn't taken us in no telling where we would be right now athletically. However, they can be blinded by their focus on basketball, especially Duke and UNC.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top