UNC releases (another) notice of allegations from NCAA

LagrangeJacket

LagrangeJacket

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I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but it's here.

This one says about the fake courses: "student-athletes, particularly those in the sports of football and men's basketball, used these courses for purposes of ensuring their continuing NCAA academic eligibility" from 2002 to 2011.

There's a couple of basketball titles in those years. It seems like otherwise ineligible athletes should lead to vacated wins, leading to giving up the titles. However, I fully expect the NCAA to retroactively award UNC the 2012 ACC football championship.
 
I was honestly shocked that the NCAA got this whole UNCheat thing started back, it was and is a pleasant surprise. I guess they were pissed that UNC admin didn't "play nice" in their responsel, which was effectively blah blah blah NCAA has no jurisdiction in academic matters blah blah blah

Still holding my breath if they will actually come down on them with any real penalties though.
 
Be careful what you wish for. People aren't understanding the global issue here. UNC has said they gave fraudulent grades for players through fraudulent teachings. What UNC is fighting and they are right is that the NCAA has NO Authority to validate a course study. If UNC wants too validate a class as a public university, they have every right. The NCAA is basically stating that UNC created bogus classes. UNC says, the class wasn't bogus, the teaching and grade giving was bogus. UNC, and I agree with them, is telling the NCAA to go pound sand because the NCAA does not have the authority to say which classes are or are not valid. How does the NCAA look at the SEC and their players course studies but somehow have the cajones to tell UNC their class was phony? Its just another example of the NCAA trying to step where they don't belong.
 
BarrelORum said:
Be careful what you wish for. People aren't understanding the global issue here. UNC has said they gave fraudulent grades for players through fraudulent teachings. What UNC is fighting and they are right is that the NCAA has NO Authority to validate a course study. If UNC wants too validate a class as a public university, they have every right. The NCAA is basically stating that UNC created bogus classes. UNC says, the class wasn't bogus, the teaching and grade giving was bogus. UNC, and I agree with them, is telling the NCAA to go pound sand because the NCAA does not have the authority to say which classes are or are not valid. How does the NCAA look at the SEC and their players course studies but somehow have the cajones to tell UNC their class was phony? Its just another example of the NCAA trying to step where they don't belong.
Click to expand...

In the end, the only person who has the authority to tell UNC whether a course is valid or not is the employer who throws the UNC resume in the trash.

And if employers aren't willing to do that, then UNC gets to do whatever the F they want to do.

So honestly, the ball is in our courts, as employers, to enforce academic standards on UNC. Or, at a minimum, put the UNC resumes in the same pile with the Alabama ones.
 
Did you look at the NOA? The allegations are that UNC staff in these classes changed grades, altered papers, and turned in assignments for players. And athletes were funneled into those classes with that understanding.

I don't care if it's African American studies or quantum mechanics. University staff shouldn't do assignments for players.
 
Hrmpf. Summary of the allegations:

1. Anomalous classes in AFAM were created specifically for maintaining eligibility for athletes although open to all
- cites NCAA ethics bylaws that are about as vague as you can imagine
- alleges that, because of the athletic department's relationship with the adviser and professor, athletes had greater access to these eligibility-stuffers, and that constitutes an impermissible benefit to athletes not authorized by the NCAA

2. Women's basketball professor Boxill wrote parts of papers for students, repeatedly; also wrote emails to professors asking for them to assign a specific grade to athletes a couple times
- seems pretty straightforward awful, but limited to WBB

3. AFAM student services manager Crowder didn't cooperate with investigation
- this one is specifically spelled out in the ethics bylaws

4. Dr. Nyang'oro didn't cooperate with investigation
- ditto above

5. #1 and #2 constitute lack of institutional control

Without #1 holding water, the whole thing won't amount to much. The bylaws are pretty vague. If you could prove intent to manufacture a bogus course specifically to benefit athletes, that would do it for me, even though I can't imagine the dots connecting any other way.

If #1 doesn't hold water, than really the accrediting body would have to take action. Of course, doing anything more than probation would be disastrous for the University and its alumni, and doesn't really serve the public interest. This is an athletics matter, so it really is NCAA or bust.
 
BarrelORum said:
Be careful what you wish for. People aren't understanding the global issue here. UNC has said they gave fraudulent grades for players through fraudulent teachings. What UNC is fighting and they are right is that the NCAA has NO Authority to validate a course study. If UNC wants too validate a class as a public university, they have every right. The NCAA is basically stating that UNC created bogus classes. UNC says, the class wasn't bogus, the teaching and grade giving was bogus. UNC, and I agree with them, is telling the NCAA to go pound sand because the NCAA does not have the authority to say which classes are or are not valid. How does the NCAA look at the SEC and their players course studies but somehow have the cajones to tell UNC their class was phony? Its just another example of the NCAA trying to step where they don't belong.
Click to expand...

This is true but also is an issue the NCAA laid out for themselves. They set things up to require schools to provide "an education" to the student athletes for them to play but had no way of saying what said education can or should be. You can only effectively do both or none. Having it halfway just encourages schools to do what UNC did and when they get caught, the only ones that might hold the school accountable are alumni maybe or the state if it is a public school. Losing accreditation or some other big education-related thing won't happen for something that involved such a small portion of the total set of UNC students and alumni.

In general to your last sentence, it's cause the NCAA set up a lot of these halfway control measures and such and as so can only really try to punish the exact executors of the problem without really being able to do anything address what caused it. So they are reaching for the full authority to do both in this case rather than giving up the half authority.
 
The bigger issue IMO is that UNC's transcripts are untrustworthy, and they have felt no threat to their accreditation due to the influenece they have in the university system and state government.

When students are accidentally getting minor degrees by loading up on the no-show courses, the issue is bigger than athletics.
 
Here is what UNC is doing, to break it down simply. UNC tells the accreditors that the classes weren't real but, we fixed the problem. UNC tells the NCAA that the classes are real and the NCAA has no jurisdiction in academic matters.
 
jts1207 said:
So how many wins do we forfeit?
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Just the ones from seasons where we lost to Carolina.

I keep expecting this scandal to go away, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Summer of last year, I believe it was, the rumors started flying that the NCAA was about to drop the hammer on UNC but that didn't quite happen. It seems like the NCAA isn't going to let this go until they've got the blood they want. I can't stand the Carolina program and they've been involved in more than their fair share of fraud, but this isn't the black and white issue I imagined it to be when the story first broke. Aside from the idiots, the only organization less likeable than the scummy programs in our conference/region is the NCAA and they never stop working to maintain their grip on that title. Admittedly I'm not the most informed person when it comes to the finer points of the NCAA's bullshit, fluid, self-serving policies but @BarrelORum looks to have hit this issue on the head.
 
BarrelORum said:
Be careful what you wish for. People aren't understanding the global issue here. UNC has said they gave fraudulent grades for players through fraudulent teachings. What UNC is fighting and they are right is that the NCAA has NO Authority to validate a course study. If UNC wants too validate a class as a public university, they have every right. The NCAA is basically stating that UNC created bogus classes. UNC says, the class wasn't bogus, the teaching and grade giving was bogus. UNC, and I agree with them, is telling the NCAA to go pound sand because the NCAA does not have the authority to say which classes are or are not valid. How does the NCAA look at the SEC and their players course studies but somehow have the cajones to tell UNC their class was phony? Its just another example of the NCAA trying to step where they don't belong.
Click to expand...

You are wrong. It is what I already posted. UNC is playing both sides depending on who they are arguing against. If those BS easy classes count then UNC will lose accreditation or at least drop in ranking as a university. If UNC claims those classes aren't real then the NCAA can say that those players are/were ineligible. You don't have to be a genius to see what is happening here. If you think this is strictly an NCAA matter then you are a ööööing retard. It is so ööööing obvious.
 
ramblin' wagon said:
You are wrong. It is what I already posted. UNC is playing both sides depending on who they are arguing against. If those BS easy classes count then UNC will lose accreditation or at least drop in ranking as a university. If UNC claims those classes aren't real then the NCAA can say that those players are/were ineligible. You don't have to be a genius to see what is happening here. If you think this is strictly an NCAA matter then you are a ööööing retard. It is so ööööing obvious.
Click to expand...
I craft a reply but Go öööö yourself seems like the most appropriate. I'm not defending unc or their bogus classes. All I'm pointing out here is since when is the NCAA the authority on accreditation? That's my point you fuckng retard.
 
BarrelORum said:
I craft a reply but Go öööö yourself seems like the most appropriate. I'm not defending unc or their bogus classes. All I'm pointing out here is since when is the NCAA the authority on accreditation? That's my point you ööööng retard.
Click to expand...

You are to ööööing stupid to understand the nuance. No shit the NCAA has no authority on accreditation. The point is that UNC is arguing two different things depending on who they are arguing against.
 
ramblin' wagon said:
You are to ööööing stupid to understand the nuance. No öööö the NCAA has no authority on accreditation. The point is that UNC is arguing two different things depending on who they are arguing against.
Click to expand...
Thank you for agreeing on the only point I made. Now you can go back on your tangent dumbass.
 
So, I guess ugag got screwed on the Jan Kemp case, huh? I mean, after all, if ugag defines NO F'ing class as a class, then who is the NCAA to say they were cheating!? Like ugag's lawyer says wtte: The university (sic) was giving their players a chance to be garbage men vs say car jackers. The NCAA may just be grossly underestimating the impact of No F'ing class on these young men since obviously they aren't qualified to determine the worthiness of said No F'ing class.

The splitting of hairs in the unc case vs ugag's is to go waaay beyond a tangent.
 
UGAg should have had all of their victories for the prior decade vacated. Rampant cheating. They should have been defending themselves against the NCAA Death Penalty. Funny how for profit schools get shut down for not providing an education and job prospects when it is practically the definition of U(sic)GA.
 
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