Video Editing Question

[gespacho_the_slender]

A few folks have said something about the sound volume of my recent videos. I have set up a test. Please let me know if you prefer one over the other and I will try to bump the audio up as required.

1st time - no change
2nd time - 3 db up
3rd time - 6 dB up
4th time - 10 dB up
5th time - 20 dB up

 

[gtzulu]

FWIW, I was listening to a couple podcasts prior to watching this, and the test was way quieter except +20dB was only somewhat quieter.

Thanks for posting these videos, it makes it easy to share video of certain plays because you can embed the video on here starting at a time offset.

 

[coit]

I wouldn’t boost the audio very much, since that will introduce some distortion.

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

I wouldn’t boost the audio very much, since that will introduce some distortion.

That's my biggest concern as well. I'm trying to figure out if there is something upstream causing the issue.

This whole process has been pretty buggy the past year or so. I had a cable box die, so I upgraded to the newest version. After that, the optical input stopped working on the capture card, so I went to 5.1 audio over HDMI from the cable box. Since the HDMI goes through a splitter, that may be one issue. I'll try recording without the splitter and see if that resolves the issue, but I may run into issues if the HDMI isn't hooked to a TV to validate the HDCP. I've checked the software to make sure the audio levels aren't lower somewhere, and I've checked the actual sound card levels, etc... I'm not sure where else to check.

 

[WreckRod]

I have thought a couple times they seemed a little quiet. I thought it was my phone or YouTube but it was also quiet on the desktop. The 3rd or 4th one "sounds" right compared to other videos. But I also agree that by the 4th one you start hearing it distort some.

Hopefully it's the splitter and that fixes it.

Thanks!

 

[gtzulu]

Ghetto, but most TVs have a headphone out jack. Could try using it, although analog. Maybe your TV has other audio outs?

I agree a lower audio level would be better than adding distortion. Can always boost the dB on the viewing end.

 

[coit]

That's my biggest concern as well. I'm trying to figure out if there is something upstream causing the issue.

This whole process has been pretty buggy the past year or so. I had a cable box die, so I upgraded to the newest version. After that, the optical input stopped working on the capture card, so I went to 5.1 audio over HDMI from the cable box. Since the HDMI goes through a splitter, that may be one issue. I'll try recording without the splitter and see if that resolves the issue, but I may run into issues if the HDMI isn't hooked to a TV to validate the HDCP. I've checked the software to make sure the audio levels aren't lower somewhere, and I've checked the actual sound card levels, etc... I'm not sure where else to check.

Aren't you capturing the audio digitally in this case? That would mean that the levels are captured exactly as they were recorded. Or is the capture card decoding the digital signal and recording it in some sort of analog format?

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

Aren't you capturing the audio digitally in this case? That would mean that the levels are captured exactly as they were recorded. Or is the capture card decoding the digital signal and recording it in some sort of analog format?

To the best of my knowledge, the card is capturing the audio output from the cable box digitally. I think the problem is upstream of either the card or is system specific to Windows... (another possible source of trouble, Mac Fanbois) i.e., I've got some system wide input audio volume setting too low. The problem with that theory is that the HDMI is plugged directly into the card, so I would guess that's not the case. This is leading me more towards thinking there is some volume setting on the cable box that is doing this, or the HDMI splitter (non-powered I think... I'll need to check that when I get home) is reducing the signal strength somehow and causing the volume to be reduced. I'm not sure how that would work as I _think_ the HDMI signal is volume agnostic and dependent on the display device settings. Sheesh... The mental gymnastics on this problem...

edit: I am not totally sure on how the raw audio is retained. Hauppage records the video in a "raw" format *.ts. I take that and import it in to Avidemux, which I clip portions out, then hard recode into an *.mkv format using h.264 protocol (I think...) and the ac3 lav audio codex to retain the 5.1 audio for archive quality recordings. Much beyond this, I plead the "I'm a civil engineer, electrons firing around a motherboard are magical to me" defense...

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

Ghetto, but most TVs have a headphone out jack. Could try using it, although analog. Maybe your TV has other audio outs?

I agree a lower audio level would be better than adding distortion. Can always boost the dB on the viewing end.

I wish it were that simple. All the “out” comes via HDMI through a splitter. I’m going to try not using the splitter first and see if that helps.

 

[gtzulu]

I wish it were that simple. All the “out” comes via HDMI through a splitter. I’m going to try not using the splitter first and see if that helps.

Right, but you could take the video via HDMI and audio via TV headphone out->computer line in. Recording the audio via HDMI is definitely saner, though. Better to keep it digital.

(If your video capture software for the Hauppauge card won't let you record audio from line in, you could just record with Audacity or similar and splice it in after the fact with avidemux or whatever.)

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

I tried it without the splitter... no bueno. HDCP shuts down. Will continue to try other options.

 

[GoGATech]

I tried it without the splitter... no bueno. HDCP shuts down. Will continue to try other options.

What kind of card are you using? If you were using the optical in before and audio quality was fine, you may have to get a new card with a working optical input. Also, are you sure you have your box set to send 5.1 audio over HDMI? Some cable boxes (especially if they have an optical output) don't send ac3 audio over HDMI. They are factory set to send LPCM audio over HDMI, which your software will record as 2 channel audio.

Also, if you are certain you are sending 5.1 over HDMI from your box, check the specs of your card, because it may not be capable of capturing 5.1 over HDMI. Just because it says it captures 5.1 audio, it may only be through the optical input while capturing 2 channel aac through HDMI.

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

What kind of card are you using? If you were using the optical in before and audio quality was fine, you may have to get a new card with a working optical input. Also, are you sure you have your box set to send 5.1 audio over HDMI? Some cable boxes (especially if they have an optical output) don't send ac3 audio over HDMI. They are factory set to send LPCM audio over HDMI, which your software will record as 2 channel audio.

Also, if you are certain you are sending 5.1 over HDMI from your box, check the specs of your card, because it may not be capable of capturing 5.1 over HDMI. Just because it says it captures 5.1 audio, it may only be through the optical input while capturing 2 channel aac through HDMI.

<Edits below>
I am using a Hauppage Colossus 2. Getting a new card is the nuclear option as they are becoming scarce. I think they are about to release a new product. (edit) The settings of the two capture applications say they accept multiple (more than 2) channel audio (don't know whether I trust it or not). I have the 5.1 audio going over the HDMI cable, but the audio doesn't work on the TV that I have to use to... "finagle" the HDCP... just screeches come out with the 5.1 audio coming in from the HDMI cable. That may be another symptom. I'll need to research the LPCM protocol and how it converts.

One other detail that I am omitting is that I am using the WinTV 8.0 to capture instead of the Capture software package (both are written for the card itself, but are admittedly buggy). The Capture app is great, accepts the optical input, etc. etc. I used it to do the Tennessee and Jax State games (Check those out and compare the audio to the most recent games). Since then, I have used the WinTV app because it cuts my processing time down. (I can schedule the recording on the computer instead of playing it from the DVR after I get home from the game). The WinTV app, I have never been able to get to work with the optical input even though it says it works. Both applications have a setting where they say they accept ac3 over HDMI, but I don't know how much I trust that. I have tested the audio in the past by loading the file into Audacity and splitting the channels and it is 6 discreet channels (of what quality, I can't validate).

One other thing I attempted last night: I added an additional step to compiling where I had Avidemux hard convert the audio from Dolby 5.1 to stereo on a recompile. I also bumped the audio up 5 dB. Here is the end result:

This is an older broadcast without any audio boost or pre-convert to stereo:

Here is the Tennessee game (Capture app):

Wake Forest (WinTV 8.0 app):


For comparison sake - 2015 FSU (when I think everything was working properly):

 

[GoGATech]

The WinTV app, I have never been able to get to work with the optical input even though it says it works. Both applications have a setting where they say they accept ac3 over HDMI, but I don't know how much I trust that. I have tested the audio in the past by loading the file into Audacity and splitting the channels and it is 6 discreet channels (of what quality, I can't validate).

So are you saying the optical input on the card works, just not for the WinTV app, or quit working altogether? I'm also with you on not sure if you're getting true ac3 over HDMI. The applications may accept it, but does the hardware support it? I can't find that answer online. It would seem sort of pointless to have a separate optical input if that was the case, unless you just wanted to record audio. Also, forgive me for even asking this but have you tried a different optical cable? Those things can be wonky.

 

[coit]

<Edits below>
I am using a Hauppage Colossus 2. Getting a new card is the nuclear option as they are becoming scarce. I think they are about to release a new product. (edit) The settings of the two capture applications say they accept multiple (more than 2) channel audio (don't know whether I trust it or not). I have the 5.1 audio going over the HDMI cable, but the audio doesn't work on the TV that I have to use to... "finagle" the HDCP... just screeches come out with the 5.1 audio coming in from the HDMI cable. That may be another symptom. I'll need to research the LPCM protocol and how it converts.

One other detail that I am omitting is that I am using the WinTV 8.0 to capture instead of the Capture software package (both are written for the card itself, but are admittedly buggy). The Capture app is great, accepts the optical input, etc. etc. I used it to do the Tennessee and Jax State games (Check those out and compare the audio to the most recent games). Since then, I have used the WinTV app because it cuts my processing time down. (I can schedule the recording on the computer instead of playing it from the DVR after I get home from the game). The WinTV app, I have never been able to get to work with the optical input even though it says it works. Both applications have a setting where they say they accept ac3 over HDMI, but I don't know how much I trust that. I have tested the audio in the past by loading the file into Audacity and splitting the channels and it is 6 discreet channels (of what quality, I can't validate).

One other thing I attempted last night: I added an additional step to compiling where I had Avidemux hard convert the audio from Dolby 5.1 to stereo on a recompile. I also bumped the audio up 5 dB. Here is the end result:

This is an older broadcast without any audio boost or pre-convert to stereo:

Here is the Tennessee game (Capture app):

Wake Forest (WinTV 8.0 app):


For comparison sake - 2015 FSU (when I think everything was working properly):

First video looks like improvement.

How about one of the Elgato gaming capture products? The HD60 Pro looks pretty slick.

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

So are you saying the optical input on the card works, just not for the WinTV app, or quit working altogether? I'm also with you on not sure if you're getting true ac3 over HDMI. The applications may accept it, but does the hardware support it? I can't find that answer online. It would seem sort of pointless to have a separate optical input if that was the case, unless you just wanted to record audio. Also, forgive me for even asking this but have you tried a different optical cable? Those things can be wonky.

Here is the support article that talks (minimally) about support for ac3 over HDMI

The optical input works, but only when I use the Capture app. The Tennessee game was recorded over the optical cable using the Capture app. To my observation, there is not really any noticeable volume improvement with the audio from what I can observe.

The WinTV app does not work with the optical input (don't know why... spent a bunch of time with customer support a month or two ago on it. Program flaw). The only benefits between the two programs are WinTV allows me to schedule recordings, Capture does not. Capture craps out when the current recording reaches the top of RAM (~32 GB on my computer) so hitting record 4 hours before the game doesn't work really well.

One additional consideration: I have moved since 2015... so my cable signal may have degraded as well between my new house and my old house. Here is another comparison:
Smyrna/Vinings Comcast/Xfinity (old cable box) circa 2015:

East Cobb Comcast/Xfinity (same old cable box) circa 2016:

East Cobb Comcast/Xfinity (new box) 2017:


From my comparison/observation, the only difference seems to be the cable box...

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

First video looks like improvement.

How about one of the Elgato gaming capture products? The HD60 Pro looks pretty slick.

I'll check that out... Thx for the suggestion.

Edit: I can't tell, but I don't think they support 5.1 audio channels. VG capture device has an online video saying it doesn't. Not an absolute no-go, as the archive stuff I really only keep for posterity on the GTVA. The YouTube stuff is all just stereo.

 

[GoGATech]

Do you have any specs on the cable boxes? Or a model or anything?

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

Do you have any specs on the cable boxes? Or a model or anything?

The old box was the ARRIS or Pace XG1v3. The new box is Pace PX022ANM box. About to call Comcast to see if there is a device issue.

 

[gespacho_the_slender]

First video looks like improvement.

I got that via a software bump. My concern with using the software bump is that I am doing this with the audio:

I really just need to go get some sort of secondary training on how to mod video and audio properly... Or figure out why the input signal is low.