Views on this (LINK)
- Thread starter law_bee
- Start date
I am not naive enough to think things like this do not happen, however, I do have a few remarks about it.
Wreck n Roll states he was witness to this incident a long time ago. I do think most of the colleges are tightening their restrictions on illigitimate graduations. Cheating is probably not very widespread as it was years ago, but still exist in some cases.
It is obvious some schools are still trying to get away with underhanded dealings, and as the recent events at Tennessee and LSU have indicated more violators are being caught.
Any one that has read Dodd's Luck knows Dodd hated school and received special favors from Tennessee to be elligible to participate in sports. Years later at Tech, he saw the folly of all this and insisted his players attend class and study.
Even then, I am sure there were some student athletes granted special favors to keep them elligible. If there is any hedging at Tech today, I would guess it is minute in contrast to past years.
There are athletes that are as smart as the general population of students at Tech and some may be smarter. I often hear of athletes at Tech having close to 4.0 grades or fairly close. There have been some athletes at Tech receiving national accolades for their grade achievements.
In between those excelling and those floundering, I would imagine the remaining athletes perform pretty close to the general student body. Just because Wreck n Roll saw one incident, it did not mean all the football players were incapable of passing their courses at Tech.
Isn't Godsey a very smart individual? You can't judge a whole team by one or two players. You can pass judgement on a school found to be blatently ignoring the rules.
I would imagine today's athletes at Tech must make the grade. You can bet the football coaches did not want Burns to flunk out. They exempted him from some of the practices so he could concentrate on his studies. It would have been easier to cheat and keep him elligible.
Wreck n Roll states he was witness to this incident a long time ago. I do think most of the colleges are tightening their restrictions on illigitimate graduations. Cheating is probably not very widespread as it was years ago, but still exist in some cases.
It is obvious some schools are still trying to get away with underhanded dealings, and as the recent events at Tennessee and LSU have indicated more violators are being caught.
Any one that has read Dodd's Luck knows Dodd hated school and received special favors from Tennessee to be elligible to participate in sports. Years later at Tech, he saw the folly of all this and insisted his players attend class and study.
Even then, I am sure there were some student athletes granted special favors to keep them elligible. If there is any hedging at Tech today, I would guess it is minute in contrast to past years.
There are athletes that are as smart as the general population of students at Tech and some may be smarter. I often hear of athletes at Tech having close to 4.0 grades or fairly close. There have been some athletes at Tech receiving national accolades for their grade achievements.
In between those excelling and those floundering, I would imagine the remaining athletes perform pretty close to the general student body. Just because Wreck n Roll saw one incident, it did not mean all the football players were incapable of passing their courses at Tech.
Isn't Godsey a very smart individual? You can't judge a whole team by one or two players. You can pass judgement on a school found to be blatently ignoring the rules.
I would imagine today's athletes at Tech must make the grade. You can bet the football coaches did not want Burns to flunk out. They exempted him from some of the practices so he could concentrate on his studies. It would have been easier to cheat and keep him elligible.
getwrecked
Flats Noob
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 765
I was a freshman in 1969. Then, freshmen football players lived in the same dorms as the rest of us slugs (I don't know how they do it now, but I doubt that is the case.) During finals, we were all busting our butts to study for Chemistry - all but the jocks. They were out in the hallway shooting off the fire extinguisher. When we asked why they weren't studying, they told us that their tutors had given them study notes (consisting of about 2 typed sheets of paper). If they memorized that, they were told they would get at least a "B" on the final.
Is that "cheating?" I'm not sure what "cheating" actually means anymore. I guess it's a violation of the NCAA rules. I don't know if that incident violates any rules. Can tutors provide study notes?
I'm not sure that "most of the colleges are tightening their restrictions on illigitimate graduations." Quite Frankly, I'd doubt it. With all the $$$ involved and publicity and power, I would expect that they are tempted a helluva lot more to "cheat".
I know when Bill Curry took over he came to the Dallas-Ft Worth Alumni Club to speak and the question came up about whether he was going to try to recruit Herschel. His response was WTTE, "it's not worth our effort; so many school are outright offering him illegal inducements - when I asked their coaches if they were afraid of getting caught - they said - who cares, this guy is worth it." Of course that was almost 22 years ago, I guess.
I would caution you with equating a good grade point with "being as smart as the general population." You must remember that the athletic teams get a wide array of academic support not available to the general student. I don't want to demean any academic achievements of our athletes - just keep it in perspective.
I haven't performed a study, but I'd bet that if you compared academic credentials of football and basketball players with that of the "Olympic" sports, there would be a large difference. Take a look at the SAT scores and GPA's of the average football or basketball player. Sure, you'll find some excellent students in that bunch - but you'll also find some very marginal ones - students who I have no doubt need all the extra help that they get from the GTAA.
You say you can't judge a whole team by one or two players - well that also goes for your argument when you bring up Godsey.
"It would have been easier to cheat and keep him elligible." Easier for who, the coaches or JFB? It would have been a helluva lot easier for JFB if they had cheated, but a helluva lot harder for the coaches.
I'm not anti-athlete or hold their academic achievements in any less esteem than anyone else's - but we all need to understand that:
A. They get preferential treatment in admissions, and
B. They get academic support not available to the non-athlete - as much academic support as can be justified under the rules.
I'm sure our athletic department pretty much follows the letter of the law. But I'm also sure that they take advantage of every loophole and questionable rule that they can - I would expect nothing less. The "better" athletic schools are surely doing it, and if we hold ourselves to higher standards we will be putting ourselves at a self-imposed disadvantage - pretty stupid if we want to compete.
Is that "cheating?" I'm not sure what "cheating" actually means anymore. I guess it's a violation of the NCAA rules. I don't know if that incident violates any rules. Can tutors provide study notes?
I'm not sure that "most of the colleges are tightening their restrictions on illigitimate graduations." Quite Frankly, I'd doubt it. With all the $$$ involved and publicity and power, I would expect that they are tempted a helluva lot more to "cheat".
I know when Bill Curry took over he came to the Dallas-Ft Worth Alumni Club to speak and the question came up about whether he was going to try to recruit Herschel. His response was WTTE, "it's not worth our effort; so many school are outright offering him illegal inducements - when I asked their coaches if they were afraid of getting caught - they said - who cares, this guy is worth it." Of course that was almost 22 years ago, I guess.
I would caution you with equating a good grade point with "being as smart as the general population." You must remember that the athletic teams get a wide array of academic support not available to the general student. I don't want to demean any academic achievements of our athletes - just keep it in perspective.
I haven't performed a study, but I'd bet that if you compared academic credentials of football and basketball players with that of the "Olympic" sports, there would be a large difference. Take a look at the SAT scores and GPA's of the average football or basketball player. Sure, you'll find some excellent students in that bunch - but you'll also find some very marginal ones - students who I have no doubt need all the extra help that they get from the GTAA.
You say you can't judge a whole team by one or two players - well that also goes for your argument when you bring up Godsey.
"It would have been easier to cheat and keep him elligible." Easier for who, the coaches or JFB? It would have been a helluva lot easier for JFB if they had cheated, but a helluva lot harder for the coaches.
I'm not anti-athlete or hold their academic achievements in any less esteem than anyone else's - but we all need to understand that:
A. They get preferential treatment in admissions, and
B. They get academic support not available to the non-athlete - as much academic support as can be justified under the rules.
I'm sure our athletic department pretty much follows the letter of the law. But I'm also sure that they take advantage of every loophole and questionable rule that they can - I would expect nothing less. The "better" athletic schools are surely doing it, and if we hold ourselves to higher standards we will be putting ourselves at a self-imposed disadvantage - pretty stupid if we want to compete.
law_bee
Dodd-Like
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Messages
- 6,402
the sad thing is think about all the kids that still fail out even with the "study notes".
My understanding is that it is justified b/c of their travel requirements.
Look at it this way it is not like these people are going after the same job you are. Your degree probably has more weight b/c you school has good athletics.
My understanding is that it is justified b/c of their travel requirements.
Look at it this way it is not like these people are going after the same job you are. Your degree probably has more weight b/c you school has good athletics.