Why can't we recruit anymore?

Joined
Aug 22, 2021
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444
Step 1 is to get rid of CJP. But for some reason we keep extending his contract unnecessarily.
I agree. I don't hate Pastner and initially liked his hire under the impression that he would be a high-charisma recruiter (which has not materialized), but I don't see what it is that he brings to the table. It's been, what, 6 years and we've had a first-round bounce and a couple of meh NIT teams to show for it?

It doesn't appear to me that their is any vision or goal for the GT basketball program. It strikes me as being borne out of laziness more than a lack of resources. Stansbury, or whoever is at the helm, has decided that they'll get their paychecks as long as general appearances are kept up.
 

coit

Smarter than Diseqc
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Nov 29, 2007
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We have the Florida HS player of the year and the North Carolina HS player of the year in last year's class. That isn't recruiting?
 

gtphd

Gets banned when uga has a recruiting violation
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I don’t get it either. There was 0 pressure to extend his contact after last season. He won the ACC - great. But he wasn’t going anywhere and it wouldn’t have been a disaster for him to leave. Just let the contract run to its natural conclusion and decide what to do then.
 

1982Jacket

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Someone suggested that if Kansas is good, Georgia Tech should be too.

Hello?!? Their first coach was James ööööing Naismith who literally INVENTED basketball. He was coaching Kansas n the 1800s! Before the Wright Brothers or the Model T. Then they had Phog Allen. Etc. I H8 "Rock Chalk, Jayhawk" but I'm not ööööing delusional. They have perhaps the greatest college basketball tradition that there is - even including Kin öööö y and UCLA.

I was at Tech when Cremins came along. I remember when we heard a rumor (before Al Gore invented the Interwebs) that he got this hot shot guard from Oklahoma to come to Tech. And nobody could figure how he did it, as Tech basketball had sucked for a long, long time. Before he came, I think we had ONE good player - Brooke Steppe, if anyone here remembers him . . . really good player; really good guy - I played pickup with him many times at "The SAC" aka Campus Recreation Center. Still, I think he was sort of a late bloomer, and Price was perceived at a different level coming out of high school.

Cremins was one of the greatest recruiters ever (even though Spike Lee kind of clowned him in "He Got Game."). But IMO, he was only mediocre as a game coach. I remember many times wishing he would recruit as the face of the team, but kind of turn actual coaching to someone else. Then we got Hewitt, who seemed to be almost as great a recruiter as Cremins . . . but an even much worse actual coach. Just bad. And since then . . . well, not much good has happened, before the miracle ACC tournament run last year. I agree with someone who noted how diluting the ACC hurt our recruiting. When Tech was at the bottom and Cremins was trying to build it, he could get the kids that UNC, Maryland and NC State weren't targeting, by selling them that they would be in the great ACC, AND they would actually play! Now there are eleventy-seven schools in the ACC, and I don't think the ACC is even the best conference any more.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons (excuses?) for our football difficulties, but Tech should definitely be MUCH better in basketball and should be able to recruit with the best of them. I can't think of one good reason why we can't. It comes down to more money and better coaching. If we are $$$ limited, and we have to rob Peter to pay Paul, then I would favor taking some of the money from football and spending it on hiring a real top notch basketball coach for the first time in 40 years, and give him the money he needs to bring in top assistants and recruit like hell.
 

clapper

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Jan 19, 2007
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Before he came, I think we had ONE good player - Brooke Steppe, if anyone here remembers him . . . really good player; really good guy - I played pickup with him many times at "The SAC" aka Campus Recreation Center. Still, I think he was sort of a late bloomer, and Price was perceived at a different level coming out of high school.
Tico Brown was only two years ahead of Steppe (who I always thought looked like Tom Petty). And Sammy Drummer the year before that.

Brown's son, Rion played at Miami. Drummer was our version of teaching a college athlete to read. https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1985-05-05-0300000062-story.html
 

Vespidie

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Someone suggested that if Kansas is good, Georgia Tech should be too.

Hello?!? Their first coach was James ööööing Naismith who literally INVENTED basketball. He was coaching Kansas n the 1800s! Before the Wright Brothers or the Model T. Then they had Phog Allen. Etc. I H8 "Rock Chalk, Jayhawk" but I'm not ööööing delusional. They have perhaps the greatest college basketball tradition that there is - even including Kin öööö y and UCLA.

I was at Tech when Cremins came along. I remember when we heard a rumor (before Al Gore invented the Interwebs) that he got this hot shot guard from Oklahoma to come to Tech. And nobody could figure how he did it, as Tech basketball had sucked for a long, long time. Before he came, I think we had ONE good player - Brooke Steppe, if anyone here remembers him . . . really good player; really good guy - I played pickup with him many times at "The SAC" aka Campus Recreation Center. Still, I think he was sort of a late bloomer, and Price was perceived at a different level coming out of high school.

Cremins was one of the greatest recruiters ever (even though Spike Lee kind of clowned him in "He Got Game."). But IMO, he was only mediocre as a game coach. I remember many times wishing he would recruit as the face of the team, but kind of turn actual coaching to someone else. Then we got Hewitt, who seemed to be almost as great a recruiter as Cremins . . . but an even much worse actual coach. Just bad. And since then . . . well, not much good has happened, before the miracle ACC tournament run last year. I agree with someone who noted how diluting the ACC hurt our recruiting. When Tech was at the bottom and Cremins was trying to build it, he could get the kids that UNC, Maryland and NC State weren't targeting, by selling them that they would be in the great ACC, AND they would actually play! Now there are eleventy-seven schools in the ACC, and I don't think the ACC is even the best conference any more.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons (excuses?) for our football difficulties, but Tech should definitely be MUCH better in basketball and should be able to recruit with the best of them. I can't think of one good reason why we can't. It comes down to more money and better coaching. If we are $$$ limited, and we have to rob Peter to pay Paul, then I would favor taking some of the money from football and spending it on hiring a real top notch basketball coach for the first time in 40 years, and give him the money he needs to bring in top assistants and recruit like hell.
Cremins had some really good assistants in Kevin Cantwell and Perry Clark, and they had some very good players to work with. The college game during that time was filled with great players from a lot of different teams. The ACC, Big East, and Big 10 were the dominant conferences in a time prior to 'one and dones' destroying the college game, IMO. I agree wholeheartedly regarding the GT basketball landscape. It would be much easier to fund the basketball program due to numbers in the hope of recreating a successful brand/name recognition, putting fannies in the seats, and winning which goes a long ways toward curing apathy.
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
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The beginning of the end was the practice in October 1998 when Dion Glover tore his ACL.
I agree this was a big deal, but it really just exemplified a broader trend. Cremins always had short benches, so when a couple stars get hurt, or big-time recruits don't pan out or whatever, he couldn't keep up the winning. Coaching is a high stress position, and when you're not winning, it's no fun.
 

18in32

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There weren't more than a handful of teams in the country with a trio more impressive (on paper) than Shumpert, Favors, and Lawal, who were all McDonald's All-Americans coming out. That team just vastly underachieved, as did most Hewitt teams outside of his first season and '04.
My recollection is that Hewitt's teams almost always underperformed and were better on paper than on the court. Even the 2004 team lost a buncha games in the middle of the year (including to a bad UGA team), then had a nice run of wins in the tourney but they were pretty close games. We only won the first round game by 5 points... miss a few baskets there and we remember 2004 (and Hewitt) very very differently. Consider that we were only 2 games over .500 in ACC play that year; last year we were 5 games over .500 with the ACC POY.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
444
Someone suggested that if Kansas is good, Georgia Tech should be too.

Hello?!? Their first coach was James ööööing Naismith who literally INVENTED basketball. He was coaching Kansas n the 1800s! Before the Wright Brothers or the Model T. Then they had Phog Allen. Etc. I H8 "Rock Chalk, Jayhawk" but I'm not ööööing delusional. They have perhaps the greatest college basketball tradition that there is - even including Kin öööö y and UCLA.

I was at Tech when Cremins came along. I remember when we heard a rumor (before Al Gore invented the Interwebs) that he got this hot shot guard from Oklahoma to come to Tech. And nobody could figure how he did it, as Tech basketball had sucked for a long, long time. Before he came, I think we had ONE good player - Brooke Steppe, if anyone here remembers him . . . really good player; really good guy - I played pickup with him many times at "The SAC" aka Campus Recreation Center. Still, I think he was sort of a late bloomer, and Price was perceived at a different level coming out of high school.

Cremins was one of the greatest recruiters ever (even though Spike Lee kind of clowned him in "He Got Game."). But IMO, he was only mediocre as a game coach. I remember many times wishing he would recruit as the face of the team, but kind of turn actual coaching to someone else. Then we got Hewitt, who seemed to be almost as great a recruiter as Cremins . . . but an even much worse actual coach. Just bad. And since then . . . well, not much good has happened, before the miracle ACC tournament run last year. I agree with someone who noted how diluting the ACC hurt our recruiting. When Tech was at the bottom and Cremins was trying to build it, he could get the kids that UNC, Maryland and NC State weren't targeting, by selling them that they would be in the great ACC, AND they would actually play! Now there are eleventy-seven schools in the ACC, and I don't think the ACC is even the best conference any more.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons (excuses?) for our football difficulties, but Tech should definitely be MUCH better in basketball and should be able to recruit with the best of them. I can't think of one good reason why we can't. It comes down to more money and better coaching. If we are $$$ limited, and we have to rob Peter to pay Paul, then I would favor taking some of the money from football and spending it on hiring a real top notch basketball coach for the first time in 40 years, and give him the money he needs to bring in top assistants and recruit like hell.
The comparison to Kansas is to highlight the fact that our usual excuses for sucking at football do not apply to basketball, at all. KU is a small-ish, unremarkable school in a generally unappealing state (I used to live in Kansas and love it, but I know its perception) without a lot of fans or money flowing in. They have good bagmen, yeah, but it's not Ohio State with monster TV money coming in and a 100k seat stadium filling up 7 times per year. What good is Nebraska's old-school football tradition doing them? Ours?

I mean, for öööö's sake, Kansas State has a better basketball program than we do.

The point is that developing a really cool, flashy basketball program is somewhere on the order of 1000x more attainable than developing an SEC-competitive football program, and yet it gets zero attention from anyone.
 

Liberty

Kayar hunu bhanda marnu ramro
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Aug 15, 2021
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Hewitt could not coach, but he sure could recruit. From one angle you could say he damaged the program, but I don’t think as much as some may believe. We were already on a slide at the end of Cremins tenure, that dance with USCe really hurt him & us. The program got really damaged when we renovated the Tit at the same time we hired a poor coach, on top of the massive debt we had hanging over us. Lackluster fan interest in basketball, move the games off campus, hire a coach that generated the interest of a piece of stale white bread & we had a recipe for driving us straight off the cliff.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
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Hewitt could not coach, but he sure could recruit. From one angle you could say he damaged the program, but I don’t think as much as some may believe. We were already on a slide at the end of Cremins tenure, that dance with USCe really hurt him & us. The program got really damaged when we renovated the Tit at the same time we hired a poor coach, on top of the massive debt we had hanging over us. Lackluster fan interest in basketball, move the games off campus, hire a coach that generated the interest of a piece of stale white bread & we had a recipe for driving us straight off the cliff.
I'm also inclined to think the hate for Hewitt is badly overblown. We were, what, one year removed from a tourney appearance when he got fired? I am usually the LAST person to go down this route, but I think a lot of the more country club, golf-and-fishing GT fans had a special hate for a New York black guy in a fancy suit underperforming on a big contract. We pumped out legit NBA players, made an NC game, made the tournament ~50% of the time, and were a generally threatening program. You're never far from a big run when you have 2+ NBA starters on your team.

But you'd think Hewitt was ööööing Geoff Collins the way he gets talked about. Right now, I'd kill for that summary of his tenure here that I just wrote. Maybe he needed to go, but he's not even remotely the scapegoat he gets bandied about as.
 

The Champ

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Sep 28, 2008
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GT Basketball was apparently hot öööö in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. We pulled 10-star PG's out of NYC like it was nothing, got Bosh out of Texas, got Shumpert out of Chicago, signed Favors, and so on. We were a legitimate NBA factory program. By any metric of NBA recruiting, there's basically the blue bloods, GT and Wake Forest, and then the rest of the field.

What the öööö happened? Full disclosure, I didn't start following Tech until the mid-10's when I started going there, so I don't know a lot of the nuance. GT and Atlanta have gotten significantly better since the Kenny Anderson and Marbury days, but now we recruit like öööö. What exactly is missing? Pastner could recruit at Memphis. Is there more to the story?

Honestly, as a new blood fan with no other ties to Georgia, I'm perfectly happy to tell college football to go öööö itself, but my question is why we can't be a basketball school? Instantly, all of our Disadvantages that everyone obsesses over in football are magically wiped away in basketball, and yet we have a goddamn Nebraska-tier basketball program. A gorgeous arena in a cool place for a basketball player to play, with an elite pedigree for sending people to the NBA, and we're poaching 3-stars from Clemson. Can someone make this make sense?
We were the worst program in the ACC for 10 years.

We’ve hired two coaches that are horrible recruiters and have no personal brand value.

The acc no longer has cache; it’s a mid-low tier power conference that became extremely watered down with expansion. Our schedule in turn is full of Boston College Miami and VT games as opposed to playing 25% of conference game against Carolina/Duke.

We play in an empty gym with no atmosphere; road or home

We have gotten 1 kid (maybe 2?) drafted in, like 10+ years?
 

The Champ

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I'm also inclined to think the hate for Hewitt is badly overblown. We were, what, one year removed from a tourney appearance when he got fired? I am usually the LAST person to go down this route, but I think a lot of the more country club, golf-and-fishing GT fans had a special hate for a New York black guy in a fancy suit underperforming on a big contract. We pumped out legit NBA players, made an NC game, made the tournament ~50% of the time, and were a generally threatening program. You're never far from a big run when you have 2+ NBA starters on your team.

But you'd think Hewitt was ööööing Geoff Collins the way he gets talked about. Right now, I'd kill for that summary of his tenure here that I just wrote. Maybe he needed to go, but he's not even remotely the scapegoat he gets bandied about as.
Hewitt was very good. You are right that the slacks and polo GT crowd held the black guy from New York to a higher standard while Gregory and pastner have been given huge leeway despite minimal results (while being described as good, personable coaches that excel at Xs and Os. Didn’t help that he followed cremins. But his 10 years were roughly as good as cremins final 10, and he still got fired.
 

Liberty

Kayar hunu bhanda marnu ramro
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Hewitt was hated not because he was a NY black guy in fancy suit with a huge contract, but his teams played dumb basketball. He’d stand clueless on the sidelines while we couldn’t inbound the ball 50 times in a row. Being dumb is a mortal sin at GT, that’s what got him in the ööööter. GT teams are supposed to play smart, it’s how we’re supposed to overcome lesser talent. It’s what’s got our football coach in such a pickle as well. Why we blocked/discouraged Hewitt from going to St Johns is one of the all time dumbest GT AD moves & that’s in a club full of pretty damn dumb AD moves. Just think of the $$ we’d have had to hire a replacement, yet we pulled a real boner then had to settle for Gregory.
 

BackstreetBuzz

GT fan for 60+ years
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Oct 25, 2003
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GT had great fans in the 80s and 90s. Almost all of them have either died or gotten to old to go to the games. They have not been replaced. I don’t know what GT grads from the 90s, 00s and 10s do for entertainment, but it is not going to GT games. Players do not want to play in front of empty stands.
 
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