"You have to get rid of all of the excuses."

beej67 said:
And at Navy the problems were all interior to the AA. They were within his direct reach to fix. At GT some of the problems are exterior, and take effort beyond his reach to fix. He has to get buy in from administrators to fix it. And in part, the Board of Regents, which is stacked against us.
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Do we know this? I don't really know the specifics of the Navy program before and after CPJ arrived.

Of course, we know CPJ doesn't have control over admissions and he can't fire anybody in the Tower. But I also don't think he needs to. There are literally thousands of recruits in this country that go play ball at BCS AQ schools every year that can qualify for GT's academics, and probably 50 or more in this state alone. 184 players signed FCS LOI's last year from Georgia. It would not surprise me if at least 50 of the could qualify for GT. 1 out of every 178 HS players signs with an FCS school. (Second only to Florida. http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1470883)

And for clarity, I have been generally pleased with PJ's classes with the occasional unhappiness at a few reaches at signing time. This year's class looks great to me.
 
beej67 said:
VT has better players than we do.

Everyone in the ACC almost, has better players than we do.

The reason we can't get better players is well documented. Academic restrictions and limited majors.

CPJ is fighting with the hill over the academic restrictions and limited majors. He is having some success, but not as much as many of us would like.

Do you contend he should fight harder? Do you propose someone else that you think would have won this fight by now?
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I have always supported CPJ. I think he is the best man for the job that I know of. I am not on the coach's search committee.

He is not making the excuses that you are.
 
GT's 'excuses' aren't excuses. They are self-imposed handicaps. Chalking our mediocrity up to 'excuses' is like entering a Jetta in Formula I races and then saying that you keep getting lapped because of excuses.

No, you keep getting lapped because you keep bringing a knife to a gunfight, dumbass, and it doesn't matter how smart your driver is because he doesn't have the equipment to compete at that level.

If the Institute wants its athletic teams to consistently compete at the highest level, it will play by the rules that everyone else is playing by. All of the rah rah "getting rid of excuses" b.s. in the world won't do anything to change that reality.
 
staggerwing said:
GT's 'excuses' aren't excuses. They are self-imposed handicaps. Chalking our mediocrity up to 'excuses' is like entering a Jetta in Formula I races and then saying that you keep getting lapped because of excuses.

No, you keep getting lapped because you keep bringing a knife to a gunfight, dumbass, and it doesn't matter how smart your driver is because he doesn't have the equipment to compete at that level.

If the Institute wants its athletic teams to consistently compete at the highest level, it will play by the rules that everyone else is playing by. All of the rah rah "getting rid of excuses" b.s. in the world won't do anything to change that reality.
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The chasm is not as wide as you would lead us to believe.
 
I started following Tech football under Gailey, so the level of excitement PJ has brought to my viewing experience is head and shoulders above my baseline. Our defense has been atrocious, though. That's my primary complaint. CPJ agrees, so he picked up Groh ... threw him out ... then picked up Roof. As long as CPJ is willing to make the changes to help us succeed, then I'm on his side.

Also, 9 wins would be amazing this year considering we have to play BYU, Clemson, Miami, VPI, and Georgia. Georgia and Clemson look like world-beaters, so the folks expecting 9 wins are expecting us to lose only 1 to BYU, Miami, and VPI. That's pretty lofty. Yeah, we can do it, but I'm not gonna be upset if we end up with 8 wins. That's just me, though.
 
staggerwing said:
GT's 'excuses' aren't excuses. They are self-imposed handicaps. Chalking our mediocrity up to 'excuses' is like entering a Jetta in Formula I races and then saying that you keep getting lapped because of excuses.

No, you keep getting lapped because you keep bringing a knife to a gunfight, dumbass, and it doesn't matter how smart your driver is because he doesn't have the equipment to compete at that level.

If the Institute wants its athletic teams to consistently compete at the highest level, it will play by the rules that everyone else is playing by. All of the rah rah "getting rid of excuses" b.s. in the world won't do anything to change that reality.
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This.

Architorture23 said:
The chasm is not as wide as you would lead us to believe.
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And how exactly would you quantify that chasm? You have to quantify the chasm if you want to make the claim that we're not doing enough with what we've got. You can start by finding me another school with not only the same academic restrictions as GT has, but also the same major restrictions. You can't. The closest thing is Harvey Mudd.

carmex said:
Put up or shut up, IMO. Anybody know any slutty girls we can get to be hostesses?
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I'm happy shutting up. If I had the kind of money to be throwing around in defacto hookers, I might actually go to a titty bar more than once every three years.
 
DressCheeseSideSeaboard said:
Swampsting could probably subcontract this to the Cheetah.
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I can work on it. Got a lot to do today and I am way behind as always. But give me a little bit of time.

I'll see what I can do.

I'll say this too - anybody who knows PJ knows how much he wants to win. But he also doesn't want to stockpile the program with turds. He'll take a chance on a guy, and he'll give a guy a chance if he screws up. But I don't expect him to go after some high profile kid who has a great deal of baggage and very well could be a thug just because he's a whatever star kid.
He had to change a lot of attitudes at Navy, and not just among the admin there but among the players, too.
 
dressedcheeseside said:
The way I see it, there's a difference between the words "excuse" and "obstacle". Obstacles are things in your way that must be overcome for you to be successful. They are not insurmountable, but they do present a problem that must be solved.

Once you begin using surmountable obstacles as reasons for why you cannot be successful, then they become excuses.
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Hit the nail on the head.
 
Architorture23 said:
Read the thread title again. CPJ's words, not mine. Those are exactly the things he was talking about with Navy. Size restrictions of cadets : academic restrictions of recruits, etc. We've got a lot of money and we have fantastic facilities. These are not holding us back.
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Again, those were excuses for a team that was 72-148-1.

Compared to Navy we have a lot of money and fantastic facilities. Compared to the rest of the southeast we don't (hint: we aren't in the top 50 in athletic department revenue).

When you've gone to as many bowls in a row and have as many wins as the past ten years as we do, those things become a lot closer to obstacles that need to be overcome rather than excuses.

Again, it's a matter of ceilings. We are a lot closer to ours in 2013 than Navy was to theirs in 2002.
 
Architorture23 said:
Do we know this? I don't really know the specifics of the Navy program before and after CPJ arrived.

Of course, we know CPJ doesn't have control over admissions and he can't fire anybody in the Tower. But I also don't think he needs to. There are literally thousands of recruits in this country that go play ball at BCS AQ schools every year that can qualify for GT's academics, and probably 50 or more in this state alone. 184 players signed FCS LOI's last year from Georgia. It would not surprise me if at least 50 of the could qualify for GT. 1 out of every 178 HS players signs with an FCS school. (Second only to Florida. http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1470883)

And for clarity, I have been generally pleased with PJ's classes with the occasional unhappiness at a few reaches at signing time. This year's class looks great to me.
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The problem isn't as much the academics alone as when you factor it with other issues. The main thing that gets me is our tiny fan base. If a recruit wants to play in front of a lot of fans on Saturday they simply aren't going to look at GT, regardless of whether they are qualified.

Your argument has a tendency to assume that for some reason all people who qualify academically should go to GT. That just isn't the case.
 
beej67 said:
And how exactly would you quantify that chasm? You have to quantify the chasm if you want to make the claim that we're not doing enough with what we've got. You can start by finding me another school with not only the same academic restrictions as GT has, but also the same major restrictions. You can't. The closest thing is Harvey Mudd.
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I have not claimed anything. All I've done was post PJ's quote, that at Navy he told them to get rid of the excuses. This is not an indictment on PJ. He is not citing any excuses. We have fantastic facilities. We have tradition. We have a great education to offer that will fit most recruits' life plans. There are plenty of qualifiers in the mid-upper talent ranges.

And the on-field chasm is not that wide because we have not been dominated by any team save UGA in PJ's tenure. Even the teams we have lost to frequently have not been dominating except for a few instances. We have been to ACCCG's and performed well. We are 4-2 against Clemson. We have beaten two Top 5 teams. We have beaten UGA. We are not a "Jetta in a Formula 1 race."
 
Architorture23 said:
And the on-field chasm is not that wide because we have not been dominated by any team save UGA in PJ's tenure. Even the teams we have lost to frequently have not been dominating except for a few instances. We have been to ACCCG's and performed well. We are 4-2 against Clemson. We have beaten two Top 5 teams. We have beaten UGA. We are not a "Jetta in a Formula 1 race."
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Perhaps we are a Jetta in a Formula 1 Race, who happens to be driven by a really good driver.

There's now way to know, objectively.
 
Legal Jacket said:
Your argument has a tendency to assume that for some reason all people who qualify academically should go to GT. That just isn't the case.
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I haven't said anything remotely similar to this. I know we don't offer a lot of the programs that Stanford or whomever people like to compare us to.

I'm saying that PJ is not using that as an excuse and neither should anybody else. We have a great business program. We have a great pre-med path. We have a great pre-law path. You can be a teacher with a degree in anything.
 
beej67 said:
Perhaps we are a Jetta in a Formula 1 Race, who happens to be driven by a really good driver.

There's now way to know, objectively.
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We wouldn't finish on the same DAY if we were a Jetta in a Formula 1 race. Yet GT has been to the Orange Bowl and beaten two Top 5 teams. A Jetta NEVER beats an F1 car.

The players on our roster have decent offers from other schools that compete at a high level. We need more of them, though. And contrary to popular belief, we do offer the majority of the top talent in the state because they do qualify for admittance to GT. But we don't typically land them.

"They don't want to work hard for a good education."
 
Architorture23 said:
We wouldn't finish on the same DAY if we were a Jetta in a Formula 1 race. Yet GT has been to the Orange Bowl and beaten two Top 5 teams. A Jetta NEVER beats an F1 car.
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Barring any mechanic problems, and assuming it's on a GP track. Granted, an F1 car is probably more reliable than a VW ... zing.
 
Watching Paul Johnson ,the coach, in his career at Tech,there are 3 obstacles to his recruiting.
1. Academics
2. Paul Johnson himself (his"I'm right,everybody else is wrong attitude).
3. His offense (most kids just don't want to play in the TO).
 
Legal Jacket said:
I think you aren't fully recognizing the disconnect between the two. Navy had a culture of losing, we didn't when CPJ took over. When CPJ showed up in 2002 at Navy, they had been to ONE bowl in the last TWENTY years, FIVE bowls in the last FORTY years, and EIGHT bowls in the last SEVENTY years.

They hadn't had a coach with a winning record since George Welsh left in 1981, and the last coach before him with a winning record left while the Beatles were filming A Hard Day's Night.

Immediately before CPJ got to Navy, they were a combined 72-148-1 the preceding 20 years. That is a culture of losing.

We, on the other hand, have had no such culture for a while now. Gailey was over .500 and never had a losing season. O'Leary was over .500 and had one losing season his second year (5-6), Bill Lewis sucked and was promptly canned, Bobby Ross was over .500, had two losing seasons to start then turned it around.

The only coaches with losing records we've ever had are Bill Curry and Bill Lewis.

The question is much more difficult when you are talking about turning Navy from a consistently losing program to an 8/9 win team (especially given their schedule), versus taking a Georgia Tech team from a 7 win/year program to a 10 win a year program (especially given our schedule).

I don't know if the answer would still be simply getting rid of the excuses. It certainly could be, but there are realistic limitations to certain things. I think the answer is similar, but slightly different. The answer is you have to continue to find creative/new ways of winning.
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Are we content with just being over .500 and not having losing seasons. I can't live with that standard. As much dislike I have gained for cbc, when he came here we played a tougher SEC schedule than anyone in the SEC, plus ND, plus very good unc teams, plus very good CU teams, plus ugag. So I would very much have to give him some slack on his overall record. But then Homer Rice went way to far the other way and tried to wussify
our schedule as much as possible, even to the point of trying to play 3 SoCon oppenents every year.

A "winning season and over .500" should never ever be GT's standard again.
 
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