Ethical or unethical oversigning by Johnson?

gtzulu said:
But what if a player that is set to graduate in spring doesn't actually graduate? Too bad for them, should've been better at football? Other players can fail classes and stay on scholarship, but not you?
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You're dealing in hypotheticals. My opinion is if you fail classes, you should lose your scholarship regardless of years of eligibility left.

cyptomcat said:
That's good to hear. I wish we waited until they graduated in May to push them off the team. Last few off-seasons showed attrition is difficult to predict.
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The best thing for the athlete is to hear as soon as possible so he can start looking for a job. No need to make it public until Spring Practice.

I'm sure that's what happened: CPJ made a decision in December / January, informed the players, signed based on the number of scholarships he had open, then he announced it at Spring Practice.
 
Allen Koholic said:
Being told you aren't going to be playing isn't the same as losing your scholarship, although typically that's the order of operations. If they are graduating/coming into the last semester, I don't see a problem with it.
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exactly. if the player had decided to stay on the team after he graduated knowing that he would not play, that would have been his right. but it's kind of a dick move.

so I would venture a guess that both were really mutual decisions for the player to move on. one probably talked to the coaches unprovoked. the other had to be informed of his future but he then made the decision to forego his final year of eligibility.
 
gtzulu said:
Two players left the team before spring practice: Cheeks and O'Reilly. I heard that one of these dismissals was not a mutual decision--the staff told the player they weren't going to play him.

Is it ethical to cut players like this, to make room for new players you oversigned? I am thinking no. I understand they were both set to graduate in spring, but if one of them was going to take up a scholarship in fall, they must have wanted to continue their education.

I'm sure some won't care but at Tech we have always believed in winning the right way.
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Not enough info. Situation 1:

"Based on your performance over the last 4 years it doesn't look like you will be able to earn playing time this fall. You can still give it your best shot but it is highly unlikely you will see the field. Based on this info you can decide if you want to stay or go."

That was ethical. Situation 2:

"Based on your performance over the last 4 years it doesn't look like you will be able to earn playing time this fall. Therefore we will not be renewing your scholarship for a 5th year so make sure you can graduate in the Spring. What's that? You need another semester to get your minor? That's not my problem."

That was not ethical. The student probably planned his academics assuming he would be able to take classes in the Fall.
 
IM79 said:
Just ask yourself, "What would Saban do in this situation?" if you aren't sure about an action or decision.
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Saban would have run O'Reilly off a long time ago.


Which.... Is exactly what happened to him at Auburn. We took a chance that there was some reason he was leaving Auburn other than that he was a bust and was told to go elsewhere. That chance just didn't work out.
 
gtzulu said:
Two players left the team before spring practice: Cheeks and O'Reilly. I heard that one of these dismissals was not a mutual decision--the staff told the player they weren't going to play him.

Is it ethical to cut players like this, to make room for new players you oversigned? I am thinking no. I understand they were both set to graduate in spring, but if one of them was going to take up a scholarship in fall, they must have wanted to continue their education.

I'm sure some won't care but at Tech we have always believed in winning the right way.
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The player who wanted to play will have obtained a degree by Spring on scholarship. I see no problem with this. Kid will get his degree.
 
Well I'm sure if the player was wronged Carvell would find out and do an article. "Paul Johnson ruthlessly cuts senior player to make room for prized recruit Brad Stewart"
 
gtzulu said:
Well I'm sure if the player was wronged Carvell would find out and do an article. "Paul Johnson ruthlessly cuts senior player to make room for prized recruit Brad Stewart"
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Stop making stuff up. Only think you're sure of is :ööööstir:
 
I'm pretty sure Chan did this as well, not renewing a scholarship for grad school for a player who wouldn't contribute on the field.

Looking at articles about oversigning in general, there is a lot of rumors and hearsay regarding how Alabama and LSU handle 30+ recruits a year. It doesn't seem like the SEC schools outright refuse to renew a scholarship. Players either get on medical hardship scholarships or transfer. The transfers seem like constructive terminations.

By far, the most unethical practice is rescinding offers when some better prospects become open. Clemson really screwed over a recruit by rescinding an offer in January, forcing him to scramble for an FCS offer.
 
Considering he is graduating, this is kind of a joke to have been brought up.

Having said that, I have long ago realized that if we are to compete then we need to play the same game the big boys play. We're so nice at Tech that we won't go that far but this tiniest slightest move in that direction is heart warming to see.

GT did not make up the rules but we are forced to play within other's systems and try to survive. Additionally, players are pushing for more and more now, as if the original agreement isn't enough.

Maybe this young man never put out the real effort required and maybe he'd be allowed to come on as a walkon and earn a scholarship? There is plenty of real detail out there that we know nothing about too.
 
floridajacket said:
I'm pretty sure Chan did this as well, not renewing a scholarship for grad school for a player who wouldn't contribute on the field.

Looking at articles about oversigning in general, there is a lot of rumors and hearsay regarding how Alabama and LSU handle 30+ recruits a year. It doesn't seem like the SEC schools outright refuse to renew a scholarship. Players either get on medical hardship scholarships or transfer. The transfers seem like constructive terminations.

By far, the most unethical practice is rescinding offers when some better prospects become open. Clemson really screwed over a recruit by rescinding an offer in January, forcing him to scramble for an FCS offer.
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Link for the Clemson case? I know Louisville rescinded an offer from a guy who was committed for a LONG time without much warning before NSD. That one went public quickly.
 
midatlantech said:
Considering he is graduating, this is kind of a joke to have been brought up.

Having said that, I have long ago realized that if we are to compete then we need to play the same game the big boys play. We're so nice at Tech that we won't go that far but this tiniest slightest move in that direction is heart warming to see.

GT did not make up the rules but we are forced to play within other's systems and try to survive. Additionally, players are pushing for more and more now, as if the original agreement isn't enough.

Maybe this young man never put out the real effort required and maybe he'd be allowed to come on as a walkon and earn a scholarship? There is plenty of real detail out there that we know nothing about too.
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No no no no no. We left the SEC for a reason. We showed last year we can beat them without stooping to their level. College football should not be about winning football games at the expense of the futures of 20 year olds.
 
Ethical or unethical overposting by Zulu???

dumbass abounds
 
We need to honor the 'ships and in this case it seems that we did. IIRC CPJ discussed the situation and was above board with them and the opportunity to get some good new recruits on board. CPJ did it right.

Dismissals occur for many reasons and I would guess a dismisal can be made for not putting forth the effort after being told and pushed to so.

As has been said we don't know all the facts, never do, never will.
But Saban or Miles or whomever should not set our standard.
 
I trust CPJ.

Everytime a story like this comes out, it is spun out of proportion when it was a discussion between a coach and a player. Aggressively redshirting players and ensuring that they are progressing toward graduation results in an issue where players have eligibility remaining and no classes left - I'll take this problem. Is it ethical to graduate players from Georgia Tech in 4 years and not allow them to play their R-Sr year if they have not earned a spot in the two deep?

I'd be surprised if a player that hasn't really played much in their career is really ticked off at the coach that gave them a chance (or a second chance) rather than moving on to their career outside of football.
 
gtzulu said:
Two players left the team before spring practice: Cheeks and O'Reilly. I heard that one of these dismissals was not a mutual decision--the staff told the player they weren't going to play him.
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If they told him they "weren't going to play him," but said he had a choice of whether to stay or leave, then that's the staff just being honest. If they yanked his scholarship without him doing anything to deserve it being yanked, then that's dirty. Your post was very vague about which this is.
 
beej67 said:
If they told him they "weren't going to play him," but said he had a choice of whether to stay or leave, then that's the staff just being honest. If they yanked his scholarship without him doing anything to deserve it being yanked, then that's dirty. Your post was very vague about which this is.
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Because nobody knows for sure which happened. In CPJ's case, I have no reason to guess anything but the former.
 
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