Bowden speaks about infractions...

But they don't appear to be appealing the loss of scholarships, just the vacated wins. We didn't vacate wins, did we?
 
lonestarjacket said:
But they don't appear to be appealing the loss of scholarships, just the vacated wins. We didn't vacate wins, did we?
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From what I understand, their loss of scholarships was far less than ours despite their infraction being more severe. Also, I think we were originally supposed to have wins vacated but successfully appealed that.
 
gth816f said:
From what I understand, their loss of scholarships was far less than ours despite their infraction being more severe. Also, I think we were originally supposed to have wins vacated but successfully appealed that.
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Yep. Ours was an academic advisors oversight on core curriculum content. Theirs was blatant cheating. Yet they will get off easier. I ****ing hate the NCAA. I seriously do. These guys are like County Commissioner Bubbas that try to abuse any power they have.
 
Braine should be shot for the way he handled our problem.
 
BarrelORum said:
"Its like killing a flea with a hammer."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3995384


Especially if you consider that flea willful cheating by not only the players, but the staff as well.

If this turns out well for FSU, then its just further proof that Braine and Clough really mishandled our appeal.
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The "flea" devastated Europe in the Middle Ages (black plague)--this type "flea" could devastate college sports if left "unchecked"--F$U is a flea carrier and the NCAA always brushes away their fleas with a slight wave of the hand--a HAMMER is needed but won't be used! :mad:
 
gth816f said:
From what I understand, their loss of scholarships was far less than ours despite their infraction being more severe. Also, I think we were originally supposed to have wins vacated but successfully appealed that.
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Actually our wins weren't going to be vacated. They were going to be forfeited. When you vacate a win you go into you record books and erase your victories. When you forfeit you go into both teams record books and change your victory to another teams victory.

So yeah in my opinion if FSU appeals their vacated wins and receives no further punishments, they would have gotten something weaker than a slap on the wrist for having 60 student athletes be found cheating. At that point I will lose a lot of respect for the NCAA and will add FSU to the list of schools who's program philosophy pisses me off (VPI being another example of this).
 
lonestarjacket said:
But they don't appear to be appealing the loss of scholarships, just the vacated wins. We didn't vacate wins, did we?
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We were stuck with vacating our 3 wins vs UGA, but appealed it and didn't have to vacate them. All the other penalties stuck.
 
00Burdell said:
Braine should be shot for the way he handled our problem.
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Braine should be shot for the way he mishandled a lot of things. In the least, I think the bastard should be publicly caned. That fat lazy **** bag was too pompous and arrogant and on top of that was a crap manager and thanks to his good buddy Clough, was one of the top 5 highest paid AD's in the country.
 
BarrelORum said:
"Its like killing a flea with a hammer."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3995384


Especially if you consider that flea willful cheating by not only the players, but the staff as well.

If this turns out well for FSU, then its just further proof that Braine and Clough really mishandled our appeal.
Click to expand...


The failure in our handling of the case is crystal clear: we didn't hire legal representation until too late. We thought the NCAA would be fair and see that our error was clerical (and most of the accusations barred by the statute of limitations). And, according to some, we failed to account for a vicious staff member with an agenda.

But mainly, and primarily, everyone thought the NCAA had legitimate aims. Wrong. And when dealing with the devil, it is best to hire lawyers (lawyers are not the devil, we are his competitors).

From what I observed, we tried to handle things honestly and forthrightly.

I'd also say that the NCAA is full of people who want everyone to kiss their ass, even though they are generally nothing but worthless bureaucrats. In their small minds, they are responsible for the joys and triumphs of collegiate athletics. Not the athletes, not the institutions, not the conferences, not the boosters, but the NCAA bureaucrats. Clough's vacation should not have been a big deal. But it would not surprise me if the NCAA bottom-feeders took affront to the idea that someone would fail to be at their beck and call.
 
BarrelORum said:
Yep. Ours was an academic advisors oversight on core curriculum content. Theirs was blatant cheating. Yet they will get off easier. I ****ing hate the NCAA. I seriously do. These guys are like County Commissioner Bubbas that try to abuse any power they have.
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I agree 100%. There seems to be no check/balance on who and how they punish. I'm sick of those bastards.
 
my recollection is it was VERY late in the game when we brought in the lawyer with the NCAA experience.

I blame clough and Braine. The 1st question should have been who is the top lawyer in the country at handling these type of allegations.

However I am NOT so sure that BB/F$U will slip by this time. The fact they are "downplaying" a full-fledged, organized cheating racket will not be a strong argument IMO. The fact that this was organized and was across different sports shows an "extreme" lack of control.

I think if they give back the wins they will get hit with more schollys. Also if the NCAA has been reading TK/BB in the news I think this might get uglier.
 
law_bee said:
my recollection is it was VERY late in the game when we brought in the lawyer with the NCAA experience.

I blame clough and Braine. The 1st question should have been who is the top lawyer in the country at handling these type of allegations.

However I am NOT so sure that BB/F$U will slip by this time. The fact they are "downplaying" a full-fledged, organized cheating racket will not be a strong argument IMO. The fact that this was organized and was across different sports shows an "extreme" lack of control.

I think if they give back the wins they will get hit with more schollys. Also if the NCAA has been reading TK/BB in the news I think this might get uglier.
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I would rather them get the scholarship hit. Because it then goes from St. Bobby should be the greatest football coach ever but the evil NCAA stole his wins to St. Bobby couldn't win football games without giving scholarships to criminals. EIther way this goes down, FSU will lose victories. As it is now, however, three scholarships lost is a flippin' joke.

As for our punishment, I wouldn't be so upset with what we got as long as other schools got hit the same way. I think it has less to do with Clough and Braine and more to do with the fact that our jerseys say Georgia Tech on them, and a school like FSU has jerseys that say FSU.
 
Isn't one athlete taking a test for another kind of, uh, a big deal? Whether or not the test was online, that has to be an extreme honor code violation at FSU. Something like that at Tech would get someone expelled ina heartbeat. Meanwhile, I remain unconvinced that our "lack of institutional control" was anything more than athletes taking Physics instead of chemistry.

I hate, hate, hate, hate the NCAA. It is the worst old boys system of any institution I have ever seen. If you get in, then you can just rake in the TV contract dollars and not worry about anything even closely resembling accountability. If you ever wonder why officiating can suck, year after year with no change in staff, the NCAA (and the conference offices) are the reason why.
 
the issue with our situation was (the way I recall it) that it was not until the very end that we hired the lawyer that use to work for the NCAA.

If you are fighting the NCAA then you hire someone who is a lobbyist/former lawyer for the NCAA.

It 100% SUX that our country runs this way, but the "street smart" people understand this and adjust accordingly.

F$U's, ALA, Tenn, and Ugag's of the world understand this and already have a team in place to handle NCAA allegations.

GT was like the innocent guy that believes the mere fact that he is innocent means he does not have to mount a defense.

I hope that the GT admins learned from this experience and will handle things properly in the future (God forbid anything needs to be handled).
 
Bobby don't know anything besides catfish and cheesegrits. Leave the old man alone. He's delusional.
 
law_bee said:
I think if they give back the wins they will get hit with more schollys. Also if the NCAA has been reading TK/BB in the news I think this might get uglier.
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Yeah I'm hoping the NCAA will do that to keep some form of respectability. The problem with appealing the wins is that otherwise F$U is getting a realllllllly weak punishment for a big issue. That seems to me what is going to cause FSU to not win the appeal.
 
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