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Dr. B

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I notice that you use a bible verse as part of your signature. I would assume you are a Christian, but hey anyone can put a verse under their name, right?

At any rate, you appear to be one of Chan's biggest detractors on this forum, as some of your "ABC" post would indicate.

My question is this. As a Christian, wouldn't you be even more willing to give a Head Coach, that is not at all ashamed of his Christianity, a little more support? Chan has long been known for his activities with FCA, and his willingness to speak about his relationship with Christ. Yet, you've declared him a bum, at least as it relates to his coaching ability. Just curious as to how you reconcile this? I sure can't, at least not after 1 year on the job.

Thank God, I serve a Lord and Saviour that doesn't get rid of me, even though I mess up. I guess I'd be in trouble if the Kingdom were run like college football.
 
Maybe Chan should have taken up preaching rather than coaching. He will need some devine intervention to get this thing headed in the right direction. Who knows, it seems to have worked for Richt.

Go Jackets1
 
Originally posted by Dr. B:
I notice that you use a bible verse as part of your signature. I would assume you are a Christian, but hey anyone can put a verse under their name, right?

At any rate, you appear to be one of Chan's biggest detractors on this forum, as some of your "ABC" post would indicate.

My question is this. As a Christian, wouldn't you be even more willing to give a Head Coach, that is not at all ashamed of his Christianity, a little more support? Chan has long been known for his activities with FCA, and his willingness to speak about his relationship with Christ. Yet, you've declared him a bum, at least as it relates to his coaching ability. Just curious as to how you reconcile this? I sure can't, at least not after 1 year on the job.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Using your argument, Chan should have played Suggs alot more than Bilbo because Suggs attended FCA meetings. Oh.... wait a minute he may have done that.
 
Originally posted by Wrecked:
Using your argument, Chan should have played Suggs alot more than Bilbo because Suggs attended FCA meetings. Oh.... wait a minute he may have done that.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Wrecked,
Real good point.
 
Dr. B, you are right I do use a Bible verse in my signature. I have made a few posts in the last few weeks and then wondered if I am saying the right thing. I still am not sure but I refer to several verses in the Book of James that tells us to speak out against wrong. Also Ephesians 4:25 tells us to speak truthfully. It also tells us that we are all members of one body. Therefore if I criticize one person I am also criticizing myself. Does all this justify speaking out against one person? Maybe, maybe not. I just know that the Bible tells us to correct what we see that is wrong. It also tells us to “Love our neighbor as our self”. So therefore when I show that I disagree with CG or with those who hired him, it doesn’t mean I have malice against him. It simply means that I disagree with how he runs the team and I feel that a change should be made. Is this any different than Matthew 21:12? I do not claim to be a holy person but I do believe Christ set an example in this verse.

You state that CG is not ashamed of his Christianity. I have heard this. I saw a newspaper article that made reference to it when he was hired but I have not seen him publicly profess it. On the other hand there is no question where Mark Richt stands. There was never any doubt where Bill Curry stood. I would like to see Chan be more open on the issue.

Does all this mean I don’t like CG or worse yet hate him. No, I simply disagree with the way he does his job. I have this same opinion on certain people in my industry. I am not judging them. I am simply expressing my disagreement with their methods. I also believe that when a person is extremely highly compensated he/she has a responsibility to their fans/customers to be more open and informative. This has not happened at GT. I feel any person who avows to be a Christian takes the responsibility to answer to others for their actions. Myself included, that is the reason for my lengthy response to you.

Does my disagreeing and stating my valid disagreements with a person make me less of a Christian? According to the Bible it does not. I certainly hope that holds true. If I make personal slanderous statements, then I am not living my Christian faith.

I agree with many who post on this site. CG is our coach. He will be our coach for several more years to come. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it except express our dissatisfaction in the proper manner. Will I support him as our coach? Yes , totally and absolutely without reservation. I have seen nothing to make me believe he is not a good person. I just don’t think he is the right fit for the GT job.

You make a good point when you state that you serve a Lord and Saviour that does not get rid of you when you mess up. I am thankful for that also. When I do mess up or things are not working the way that they were planned, I go to Him and ask for help and guidance. Sometimes that guidance comes in the form of moving on to you next step in life. And yes, we would all be in trouble if the Kingdom was run like college football.

Finally I pray that my favorite verse reference at the bottom of my posts applies to everyone who posts here and especially to GT.

For those that are not familiar with the Bible: Jeremiah 29:11 - For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
 
GMC 68, sorry for the delay in reply. However, its taken me several days to pick myself up from the floor, afer reading your explanation.

The Bible is a great instruction book. However, to use the writings of James' instruction to the "twelve tribes" on Christian living to justify your treatment of Chan Gailey is one of the biggest misuses of scripture I've ever seen. Anyone who has ever read or studied the bible knows that you can find scripture to justify a lot of things. However, you have taken some liberties that need to be examined more closely.

I like how you take Ephesians 4:25 totally out of context. Sort of like Satan's use of Psalm 91 when he is tempting Jesus to throw himself down from the temple: " He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone". Satan sort of leaves out the next couple of verses, doesn't he? Psalms 91 goes on to say "You will tread upon the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent". Can't blame him for leaving that out, just like you left out Ephesians 4:26, "In your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry". I'm all for using the Bible to prove a point, but let's not forget the context of the verses we use.

Of course, I haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet. Matthew 21:12? "Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves." Hmmm. Some might call the use of that verse as justification for removing a football coach, blasphemy? I sure wouldn't stake my argument on it, but different strokes for different folks.

You mention you have no malice towards Chan, and I have no reason to believe you do. However, you criticize him for not espousing his Christianity like Mark Richt. You say you've "heard" that Chan was a Christian, but you haven't "heard" Chan espouse those views. Have you performed a google search on Chan? There are numerous articles about Chan's work with FCA, including his personal testimony. Furthermore, have you taken the time to meet the man? E-mail him? He's very good about responding to e-mails.

As a Christian, Chan represents everything I want to see in a Coach. Does that bias me? You better believe it does. I can take the anti-Chan rhetoric from posters who obviously don't reflect Christian values in any of their post. However, it just blows my mind when a person who proclaims his Christianity with every post, isn't even willing to give the man a chance, and certainly doesn't appear to be willing to find out more about him. I challenge you, as a Christian brother, to examine Chan more closely, before casting judgement. Otherwise, don't hide behind the Bible to justify your ABC viewpoint.

Just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.
 
DrB;

Interesting topic. I have enjoyed your post and those of GMC 68.

If I understand you correctly. A Christian should always support others who profess to be Christian's in their actions; as long as their actions are clearly not non-Christian?

In your view, should a Christian ever judge the actions of another Christian, i.e. serve on a jury, or enter the legal profession?

What would your view on Gailey be if he were a practicing Jew?
 
Originally posted by 71Bee:
DrB;

Interesting topic. I have enjoyed your post and those of GMC 68.

If I understand you correctly. A Christian should always support others who profess to be Christian's in their actions; as long as their actions are clearly not non-Christian?

In your view, should a Christian ever judge the actions of another Christian, i.e. serve on a jury, or enter the legal profession?

What would your view on Gailey be if he were a practicing Jew?
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Very astute questions, 71bee. I look forward to the answers.
 
Greeat questions 71 Bee, and since I have opened this "can of worms", I am more than happy to address them.

I am not necessarily advocating that a Christian should support another Christian in their actions, so long as they are non-Christian. There are a lot of "Christians" that I vehemently disagree with. However, when one professes to be a Christian, I do make try to make it a practice to give them the benefit of the doubt. In this specific case. GMC 68 has admitted that he has "heard" things about Chan he likes, but he hasn't "heard" them from Chan. It is my belief that GMC 68 owes it to himself to examine Chan, the man, further. As GMC 68 quoted from James "we must speak out against wrong". ;-)

To be honest, I've had problems with other HCs who seem to trot out their Christianity when needed. Bobby Bowden comes to mind. I don't think that the fact that a person being a Christian is an insulation from attack from other Christians. If I did, I would have never raised the questions I did with GMC 68.

So sure, a Christian should "judge" a Christian. We do it everyday, intentional or not. Certainly my defense of Chan is not one of "he's a Christian, therefore he must be right" it is more of "he had a disappointing year, but let's examine him further, not only as a coach, but as a man, before declaring him a bum, and throwing him to the street".

As to my support of Gailey, if he were a practicing Jew. I would like to think I would be advocating more time regardless of whether he is a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. But let me draw this parallel: Say Coach Gailey was a practicing Jew. Let's say that there was an ABCer on that used a quote from the Talmud as his signature. I would be suprised, and would ask that ABCer about why he wasn't giving the man the benefit of the doubt. I hope that makes sense.

I make no claims of being perfect, and those that know me know that I certainly am not perfect. However, GMC 68 ABC approach has intrigued me, and I wanted to explore it.
 
This is an interesting topic, and amazingly hasn't deteriorated into flames.

IMO, I believe that its ok to evaluate someones performance if its an honest assessment w/o slander, malicious gossip or untruths etc., as one Christian to another. It is, after all, a job for which he is getting paid, much of which comes from a budget supplied by us.

By the logic that its inappropriate or un-Christian to do the above, then it would be ok for a Christian employee under a Christian boss, to show up every day and goof off...and the boss wouldn't be able to assess performance, because, after all, they are two Christians....

Just my opinion of course

soapbox.gif
 
Originally posted by Dr. B:

My question is this. As a Christian, wouldn't you be even more willing to give a Head Coach, that is not at all ashamed of his Christianity, a little more support? Chan has long been known for his activities with FCA, and his willingness to speak about his relationship with Christ. Yet, you've declared him a bum, at least as it relates to his coaching ability. Just curious as to how you reconcile this? I sure can't, at least not after 1 year on the job.

Thank God, I serve a Lord and Saviour that doesn't get rid of me, even though I mess up. I guess I'd be in trouble if the Kingdom were run like college football.[/qb]
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Dr B:

Thanks for responding.

Perhaps I haven't read this in the proper context, but it does appear to say you do advocate a different standard for judging Christian coaches. If so, then wouldn't that apply a higher standard for non-Christians?

Did I read you wrong?
 
Big Buck. Find your comments interesting.

Agree with you that we can still love someone while still questioning how one conducts his job. See no problem with questioning what Chan does if one has the right information to question him. Things like a decision not to go for it on 4th for example. That's been brought up. Feel as fans we have the right to such. A lot of times that's not what I see on the board. Not pointing figures at anyone, but it's beyond that on the board at time with some.

You've drawn the parallel between Coach Gailey and your Pastor of the Church where you serve as a Deacon. If you disagreed with your paster you certainly wouldn't come on a message board and knock him down a notch or two would you??
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The Word of God teaches if you have a problem with someone you go to that person. Now someone not a Christian might not hold true that's the right thing to do. A Christian should. Bring that up because sometimes a Christians standards or ways are different than others who are not a Christain. A Christian follows Christ. That doesn't mean we do it the right way every time. None of us are perfect that's for sure. There was only One that was.
wink.gif


It's interesting too your comment about your pastor's salary. Church I attend the Deacon Body has nothing to do with salary of our pastor. That body is certainly not a function like a "board of directers" so to speak. They don't "run" the Church. They serve and minister.

GO Jackets!
 
Well Dr B. you and I have opened up quite a debate here. I hope everyone keeps their Christian values about them. If they are not a professing Christian I hope they keep their moral and ethical values.

First of all if you read any post I have made in regard to CG, I have never, ever taken a personal shot at him. I have simply stated and in these very words, “Chan Gailey is not the right man for GT at this time.” I have tried to refrain from any kind of personal statement about his character. If I have ever made a personal statement against him, I will be more than happy to apologize to him in public.

I agree with your statement: “Anyone who has ever read or studied the bible knows that you can find scripture to justify a lot of things.” Unfortunately we also take this scripture to justify our views on various issues. Is this right or wrong? I don’t know. It is the reason we have so many different denominations of Christianity and different religions. We cannot all agree on one interpretation. I pray that I am using the ones that God has placed in me and not ones to justify my views. This means that you and I are not always going to agree. I just hope we both keep our perspectives and remember Matthew 22:39 “‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”

As for taking Ephesians 4:25 totally out of context, we are disagreeing on this also. I was only referring to this verse because it tells us to speak truthfully to his neighbor. It is that simple. Don’t try to make more out of it. I felt I spoke truthfully to you and everyone else in my answer.

No I have not done a Google search on Chan. I would appreciate you posting the web site that has his testimony on it. I have researched his coaching background and found that he is constantly moving from position to position and the record of the teams he has coached with to not be overly impressive.

No I have not emailed Chan. I have felt that there would be no use in tying up his time with my opinions of his coaching. He doesn’t know me and is not going to change his coaching philosophies because of my opinion. He is our coach and I do support him in that capacity. To repeat I do support him. But I don’t agree with him.

Finally I have not cast judgment on anyone. I believe totally in the words in Matthew 7:1-2 “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged.” I opposed Chan’s hiring from the start. He had been out of D1 college football for over 17 years. I did not feel he had the tools to either coach or recruit at the level GT plays at. I was further disturbed by his decision to wail until very late in the recruiting season to report to Tech.

You stated “Just my thoughts, take them for what they're worth.” I have taken them to heart and pray they are offered in a Christian manner without malice and with the intentions of clearing up a misunderstanding. I appreciate you stating how you felt and what you believed. You have done what we are taught in Ephesians 4:25.
 
I just want to insert some props for Big Buck's post, which seems very sensible and civil. For that matter this whole thread has been civil, and I want to digest some of these ideas before throwing in my 2c.
 
GMC 68, I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. But, since you asked, here is the address for a link to an FCA article about Chan when he got the Dallas job:

Chan Gailey

GTTerrific was able to state some of my points much better than me. I can see where some folks may think my earlier post was advocating a different treatment for Christians. But, our Christianity is just the most obvious thing in common. Say for example, Chan and I were from the same hometown. I'd probably be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, because we have that in common. However, Chan is a Christian, I'm a Christian. I'm pulling for him to succeed, because I feel a certain bond because of our beliefs. I just found it odd that GMC 68 didn'd feel that same bond with him.

It may be just me, but advocating "ABC", is in fact a personal attack. " ANYBODY but Chan", where is the Christian attitude in that? I could understand, "PFANC" (praying for a new coach). I ask you GMC 68, would you feel comfortable addressing Chan face to face, and telling him "I don't think you're the right man for GT at this time"? I try not to post anything that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying to someone's face.

GMC 68, all I can say to you is that whether you like it or not, Chan is part of your Tech family. I would suggest you read the Sermon on the Mount in order to get some guidance on how Christ would react to your feelings.

All that being said, I'm still in shock that Big Buck is a Deacon. Of course, he is a Baptist deacon, so I guess that explains it.
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Dr. B;

On more than one occasion I have found myself in the position of telling someone something that made me highly uncomfortable in the telling. But as someone charged with evaluating/judging others I considered it a burden that was rightfully mine to bear and right to do so.

If I were found by those in a position to judge me as wanting, I would hope those in such a position would take no pleasure in their charge.

I do believe as Tech men and financial supporters of the Georgia Tech Athletic Association, we are in a position to have an opinion on Chan Gailey’s performance and good or bad have a right to express it. In fact, I wrote Dr. Clough and shared my opinion on Gailey's performance, not on his character.

In times of selecting people and in judging people I don't believe I ever allowed the person's religious beliefs to enter into the process. I do confess that I have more than once considered the person's character and morality as evidenced by their actions.
 
Another ?, is your name Don? I happen to know a GMC approximate '68 grad named Don who lives in Canton.
 
Originally posted by bellyseries:
I just want to insert some props for Big Buck's post, which seems very sensible and civil. For that matter this whole thread has been civil, and I want to digest some of these ideas before throwing in my 2c.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">So that's your secret? You're digesting this to be able to throw in your 4 word dialog that sums it all up? Not saying there is anything wrong with your technique. In fact I like it.You're the master. Amazes me time and time again how you say so much in so few words.
As you can tell I don't have that gift. I'm watching and hopefully learning.
smile.gif


Interesting to hear what you have to say. This has been a good thread with some good chit chat.
 
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