A serious question for the FB experts...

B

B

Jolly Good Fellow
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
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and I am hoping for some real insight to this question. Why don't we use the tight end in our offensive package? The middle of the field was very vulnerable tonight as evidenced by Reggie's success with the QB draw. Can anyone explain why we don't utilize this position? (I have heard that Reggie is too short or our TE's don't have good hands as possible explanations - are there any others?) I thought a quick slant to the TE would have been a good call when we got the first down deep in their side of the field and settled for a FG., especially because it would have been a new wrinkle to the offense.
 
because you would need a QB that can see over the OL to throw it to a TE. Reggie is best throwing the ball when he rolls out or has a lane up the middle. Lofting the ball to CJ is one of his higher percentage throws. Quick outs and screens also seem to work for him too.
 
Good point, B. I don't notice some of the details when I watch a game, but that one should have been obvious.
 
helluvaparamedic said:
Lofting the ball to CJ is one of his higher percentage throws.
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And he did that in the first half, and then stopped. I wonder why?
 
I think something our offense needs to look at is the quick pass to the slot receiver (preferably CJ) and let him make a play. I agree that the TE needs to be incorporated into the offense, as well as T Choice getting on the corner. I hope that the offense opens up a little more than it did in the 2nd half or that Nix has the ability to make adjustments to what the defense is doing.

Speaking of defense, all I can say about Philip Wheeler is that the guy is a stud.

Lets hope the team learns from this tough loss and comes out with a definite chip on their shoulder.

GO JACKETS!
 
I'm not sure Reggie's release is quick enough for that. Even our "quick" screens to CJ were very slow developing. It seems he has to sort of wind up to throw so that he's always a little late. Late over the middle is suicide.
 
Our 6'7" TE, #93, was out hurt for the game. I believe we would have seen him make catches. I just don't know if his backup is really that good...
 
ncjacket said:
I'm not sure Reggie's release is quick enough for that. Even our "quick" screens to CJ were very slow developing. It seems he has to sort of wind up to throw so that he's always a little late. Late over the middle is suicide.
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That makes alot of sense and has somewhat answered (if true) another lurking question...Reggie's struggle with over the middle routes has always been written off as a matter of his heigth. The question I often wondered when reading this is why Lil'Joe didn't seem to struggle with the same throws. of course,in fairness to Reggie, Joe Hamilton was one of those once in a lifetime QB's who, if playing with the defenses that we currently have, would have been a Heisman trophy lock.
 
B said:
That makes alot of sense and has somewhat answered (if true) another lurking question...Reggie's struggle with over the middle routes has always been written off as a matter of his heigth. The question I often wondered when reading this is why Lil'Joe didn't seem to struggle with the same throws. of course,in fairness to Reggie, Joe Hamilton was one of those once in a lifetime QB's who, if playing with the defenses that we currently have, would have been a Heisman trophy lock.
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Reggie is listed at 5-11, and that is probably being generous. I came face to face with Joe Hamilton last year after the the Wake game. I'm 6-1 and he looked every bit as tall as me.
 
Reggie can throw to the middle of the field just fine, but you have to people running routes to that area of the field and open passing lanes.

The reason we don't throw to the TE or FB is because our OL needs them to stay home for pass protection.

Hagans, UVA's QB last year, is almost exactly the same size as Reggie and his TE was his best reciever. I am not buying the short QBs can't throw to TEs argument.
 
I came face to face with Joe Hamilton last year after the the Wake game. I'm 6-1 and he looked every bit as tall as me.
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He must have been wearing 4 inch pumps, then. Dude is like 5-9, he's tiny. Very very small.

Hagans, UVA's QB last year, is almost exactly the same size as Reggie and his TE was his best reciever. I am not buying the short QBs can't throw to TEs argument.
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There are many examples of short QBs who can throw over the middle just fine. Evidentally, Reggie isn't one of those. I don't think it's height as much as it is vision, and inability to recognise LB coverage. But hey, what do I know?

We called passes over the middle all the time with AJ Suggs.

To answer the OP:
Why don't we use the tight end in our offensive package?
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It's a philosophy thing, a scheme thing, and a personnel thing. Our strength the last 3 years or so has been at WR depth, going back to the Curry/Glover year, so 3 WR sets put good players on the field. We haven't had a great TE in our program in a while. Servicable, but not great.

But this is a big one:
The scheme previous years has been "attack the edges with WRs, to force the coverage out there, to free up the middle, thereby establishing a run presence without being a great run team, thereby shortening the game, thereby helping the defense out."

Nix supposedly used to put together the game plans, so I don't know whether this was Gailey's scheme or Nix's scheme. And make no mistake. Our lack of throwing to the middle is exactly why the QB draw worked so well for Reggie. I don't know if the sacrifices are worth it though.
 
A few comments based on all of the above responses.

1) #93 Michael Johnson is not playing TE...but DE...and was sorely missed late in the game. He will be back for UVA.

2) Joe Hamilton is an even 5'8". However, he was exceptional at reading defensive alignments and learning their tendencies. Therefore, he was good at knowing where the safeties and LB's would be based on the routes for the play he called. Additionally, the OL was good at creating passing lanes for him...particularly on the slants. It is true that with a tall QB it does make life a little easier...but he still has to read well and make accurate throws quickly.

3) We do not throw to the TE's because of a combination of reasons. Not Reggie's best spot to throw to...combined with TE's that are not strong in the passing game (i.e. hands)...with a little bit of pass protection needs thrown in. I understand we tried a lot of passing to TE's in the spring and fall but they were not consistent holding on to the ball when the pass was there.

Trust me....I dearly miss passes to the middle of the field...and more particularly the slants. However, note that ND did not run anything like that either on Saturday.
 
THe other negative on the slants to CJ in the middle is that it brings the safety closer to the field of play. At least with the double team of CJ out wide, the safety is a good distance away making the middle more vulnerable.

James Johnson and Smith need to step up big time right now or we are in trouble this season. J Johnson looked more nervous this year than last year.

I'd like to see CJ in the middle and Johnson out wide and see if he can take his man one on one deep. If he can, it will really help us out. If he can't we are in deep doo doo.
 
hiveredtech said:
Trust me....I dearly miss passes to the middle of the field...and more particularly the slants. However, note that ND did not run anything like that either on Saturday.
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ND threw across the middle to their TE and Samawhatchaka plenty. Their tightend had more yards recieving and almost as many catches as our non-CJ recievers combined.
 
JTS said:
ND threw across the middle to their TE and Samawhatchaka plenty. Their tightend had more yards recieving and almost as many catches as our non-CJ recievers combined.
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I never said anything about TE...but maybe their TE has hands...our top three are not consistent there and a tight game where every play makes a difference is not necessarily the best place to try it. Maybe one will get hot this year.

As far as working the middle of the field...I did not see Weiss work it Sat. night like he has at other times. It seemed to me they were throwing at Pat Clark most every time they were going deep...and overall Pat did a fine job...particularly for game one as a CB.
 
JTS said:
Reggie can throw to the middle of the field just fine, but you have to people running routes to that area of the field and open passing lanes.

The reason we don't throw to the TE or FB is because our OL needs them to stay home for pass protection.

Hagans, UVA's QB last year, is almost exactly the same size as Reggie and his TE was his best reciever. I am not buying the short QBs can't throw to TEs argument.
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This TE of which you speak - he is a stud and is in the NFL this year, n'est pas?
 
hiveredtech said:
It seemed to me they were throwing at Pat Clark most every time they were going deep...and overall Pat did a fine job...particularly for game one as a CB.
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Clark probably lost his starting job. ND's halftime adjustment was to throw every pass at Clark's man and they pretty much did until he was pulled late in the third quarter. He also inexplicably lost containment on ND's second TD run.
 
LongforDodd said:
This TE of which you speak - he is a stud and is in the NFL this year, n'est pas?
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Yes, he is, but the response was to a post that basically said short QBs can't throw to TEs because they can't see over the line. Hagans was a short QB that threw to the TE all the time.
 
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