Can we move the ball vs. the 3-3-5?
- Thread starter gtfan1147
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I don't think they were playing a 3-3-5 last year so the tapes do not good. You'd need to watch New Mexico tapes to see how the 3-3-5 works. A BYU poster here earlier today was claiming that the 3-3-5 was strong against the run and weak against the pass. (See topic "a great matchup
spellingbee
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You really could debate whether or whether not all day long, but it really depends what we run and, specifically, what formations we line up in. Reading the D will be very important; that is where it is really a relief that Reilly is okay. Also, I would love to see R.Ball make some good calls from the line. I'm sure he will not be given audible liberties, but some adjustments can be made.
Here is a good page for some basic 3-3-5 info
3-3-5 coverage charts
Here is a good page for some basic 3-3-5 info
3-3-5 coverage charts
As I understand,you will be lucky to actually see a 335 configuration.There will always be 4-5 guys on the lineof scrimmage against us and probably 3 LBs close.
This means Dixon becomes even more important at FB to pick up the right blitzer.I'm not sure that Dixon is up to task as he had an erratic blocking record last yr and missed all of the Spring.(btw-CG said Dixon might get EVERY snap at FB.Not good)Oh,just something else to worry about.
This means Dixon becomes even more important at FB to pick up the right blitzer.I'm not sure that Dixon is up to task as he had an erratic blocking record last yr and missed all of the Spring.(btw-CG said Dixon might get EVERY snap at FB.Not good)Oh,just something else to worry about.
jacketguy
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Actually.. I think their running a 3-3-5 plays to our strength...
Typically the 3-4-3 is known as the nickel package.. but in the nickel, one of the LB's must assume zone coverage for the pass.. I would assume that even though they are calling this a 3-3-5, it will probably behave much like a nickel.. the long ball shouldnt be there, but the middle runs should be there.. if we pepper the runs with short throws to the sidelines (to make the LB's respect their zone responsibilities) .. I think our OL matches up well in trying to run the ball, and if the holes are there, I dont care what anyone thinks, we do have backs that can run the ball...
Give me a run oriented attack, ball control offense in Provo and I have a defense with legs and lungs in the 4th quarter.. I will take that scenario..
Typically the 3-4-3 is known as the nickel package.. but in the nickel, one of the LB's must assume zone coverage for the pass.. I would assume that even though they are calling this a 3-3-5, it will probably behave much like a nickel.. the long ball shouldnt be there, but the middle runs should be there.. if we pepper the runs with short throws to the sidelines (to make the LB's respect their zone responsibilities) .. I think our OL matches up well in trying to run the ball, and if the holes are there, I dont care what anyone thinks, we do have backs that can run the ball...
Give me a run oriented attack, ball control offense in Provo and I have a defense with legs and lungs in the 4th quarter.. I will take that scenario..
Clito Jacket
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Another thing that might be a big factor is yards after the catch, and I like our chances there. I don't know much about their receivers, but I would think a healthy Curry and Smith have a good chance of taking a short pass all the way if they don't have fast guys who are sure tacklers on 'em. On our side we have some good tackling safeties and corners to compliment our quick linebackers. I'm expecting good things from our ground game too, but the game might come down to which team turns the 8 yard pass into a big play and which team only gets 8 yards out of the 8 yard pass.
If they in fact have a 3-3-5 up the middle on runs as we can put three on 2 for runs. However, if we try the sweep the 5 can come up and cover the corners as they take less time to get there than say even pulling a guard. So if they use that coverage the short pass and the runs up the middle will be there and if they cheat to stop the run and short pass that opens up for the long sideline pass depending on who cheats up for the short pass. If it's the middle then straight up the field will be open for a long pass.
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South Carolina ran a 3-3-5 under Charlie Strong and it has ALWAYS given UGA fits. You have to have versitile players, but if its run effectively, you can really disguish coverages well. Essentially, 2 of your LB's can come up and play on the line if needed and 2 DB's can come up and play LB when needed to give a traditional 4-3 look, or any one of a ton of variations.
texstinger
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Answer: Yes! A lot of talk about our new QB. ALL there d players are learning a new, and complicated, system. Icing Baby.
Sports Forum West
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On the 3-3-5... watched it for many years. New Mexico has been working that scheme for over 20 years with considerable success at times. They never had the depth or athletes to really make it successful in big games, but they were always very tough for pro-set offenses.
At UNM, they tended to get run over by big powerful lines. However, that was with UNM athletes. At South Caroline (Joe Lee Dunn) it worked really well and Lou Holtz uses a similar variation of it today in a modified 4-3 set-up that oeprates much the same way. South Carolina does not get run over in the SEC. But all defenses have their weaknesses.
The thing that makes BYU dangerous is that the defense is a perfect match for their offense. It's risky and therefore tends to produce as many turnovers as the offense gives up, so it is a neutralizer. Furthermore, BYU has exceptional athletes, every bit as good as most BCS teams, they really do. That being coupled with this defense means they are probably much more capable than UNM, a school which usually ranks in the top 25 in total team defense and in a league where offense really is has always been a big deal (long 75 play/team games)... that's saying something.
So with Mendenhall has now gone from UNM to BYU, has better athletes (14 with starting Experience, 3 legitimate All-Am prospects), so it's expected that BYU will be very very good defensively.
The trump card is they've never played a real game with it. So we'll see. the Key to making it work is taking the big lineman off their feet to create natural walls and then shooting the gaps with smaller, quicker men who disrupt the backfield. I can tell you UNM when not banged up could really stop even the best running teams, big powerful running teams like Utah and UNLV. I suspect BYU will be hard to run against... but we won't know until tomorrow night. The scary thing is they have great individual cover guys and read/react safeties so it will be hard to throw against them as well. Some of us think their other corner (Brandon Heaney) may be the better of the two and yet it's Gilford (NFL bound for sure) that gets the All-Am honors. Their roverback in the system is a 225 lb. safety that hits like a freight train, Francisco Aaron so it should be interesting to see them play all those stunts and blitzes.
MSU still employs a similar defense and Jackie Sherrill couldn't get it to work against BYU, but then BYU faces it year in and year out. Florida for the same reason has similar offensive success against the Bulldogs every year. But when the players are healthy, it's a very good defense. It puts a lot of people wherever the ball is and forces the QB to make quick decisions, good decisions because any little mistake will be costly.
Finally, UNM, MSU and South Carolina all generate a lot of points off defensive plays. BYU has better athletes, excellent linebackers and lots of depth in the defensive line so they and expect to do the same. Add a potentially powerful top 10 offense which is pretty typical of BYU in historic terms, exceptional special teams (kicking and punting) and BYU really could be either a bad underachieving team (like last year)or a very very good team, much better than the ranked team of a year before. I think the last scenario is very likely from what I am gleaning in fall camp notes.
At UNM, they tended to get run over by big powerful lines. However, that was with UNM athletes. At South Caroline (Joe Lee Dunn) it worked really well and Lou Holtz uses a similar variation of it today in a modified 4-3 set-up that oeprates much the same way. South Carolina does not get run over in the SEC. But all defenses have their weaknesses.
The thing that makes BYU dangerous is that the defense is a perfect match for their offense. It's risky and therefore tends to produce as many turnovers as the offense gives up, so it is a neutralizer. Furthermore, BYU has exceptional athletes, every bit as good as most BCS teams, they really do. That being coupled with this defense means they are probably much more capable than UNM, a school which usually ranks in the top 25 in total team defense and in a league where offense really is has always been a big deal (long 75 play/team games)... that's saying something.
So with Mendenhall has now gone from UNM to BYU, has better athletes (14 with starting Experience, 3 legitimate All-Am prospects), so it's expected that BYU will be very very good defensively.
The trump card is they've never played a real game with it. So we'll see. the Key to making it work is taking the big lineman off their feet to create natural walls and then shooting the gaps with smaller, quicker men who disrupt the backfield. I can tell you UNM when not banged up could really stop even the best running teams, big powerful running teams like Utah and UNLV. I suspect BYU will be hard to run against... but we won't know until tomorrow night. The scary thing is they have great individual cover guys and read/react safeties so it will be hard to throw against them as well. Some of us think their other corner (Brandon Heaney) may be the better of the two and yet it's Gilford (NFL bound for sure) that gets the All-Am honors. Their roverback in the system is a 225 lb. safety that hits like a freight train, Francisco Aaron so it should be interesting to see them play all those stunts and blitzes.
MSU still employs a similar defense and Jackie Sherrill couldn't get it to work against BYU, but then BYU faces it year in and year out. Florida for the same reason has similar offensive success against the Bulldogs every year. But when the players are healthy, it's a very good defense. It puts a lot of people wherever the ball is and forces the QB to make quick decisions, good decisions because any little mistake will be costly.
Finally, UNM, MSU and South Carolina all generate a lot of points off defensive plays. BYU has better athletes, excellent linebackers and lots of depth in the defensive line so they and expect to do the same. Add a potentially powerful top 10 offense which is pretty typical of BYU in historic terms, exceptional special teams (kicking and punting) and BYU really could be either a bad underachieving team (like last year)or a very very good team, much better than the ranked team of a year before. I think the last scenario is very likely from what I am gleaning in fall camp notes.
B
bob23
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Agree with most of your post with the exception of this. Three AA candidates from a team with a weak defense? Not saying I know you're wrong, because I don't know BYU's personnel very well, but I would challenge the assertion that they have 3 AA candidates on defense...
[/qb][/QUOTE]Agree with most of your post with the exception of this. Three AA candidates from a team with a weak defense? Not saying I know you're wrong, because I don't know BYU's personnel very well, but I would challenge the assertion that they have 3 AA candidates on defense...[/QB][/QUOTE]
I've heard their DE, Poppinga, is pretty good and may be an AA candidate, but other than that they may have a handful of other good players but certainly not AA candidates.
I've heard their DE, Poppinga, is pretty good and may be an AA candidate, but other than that they may have a handful of other good players but certainly not AA candidates.
Sports Forum West
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Bobxx and stingman:
If your research is through MacPaper or a few taut sheets/magazines and nothing more then you probably don't know much about BYU's personnel. I do. They have four players on their defense that appear on various pre-season AA lists. I had mentioned them in more detail in another post, but here's the list:
Poppinga - DE
Francisco - MB/Monster Back
Gilford - CB
Payne - P (defense) / PK (offense)
However to say BYU has a handful of good players only underestimates the real quality and depth they return this year. Not all are on the above list. Another frequently mentioned player Paul Walkenhorst, Sr. OLB is injured and will redshirt. They are otherwise very healthy this year.
As an analyst, I like their cornerback Heaney as much or more than Gilford. He has a knack for finding the ball but has a bum shoulder, will play hurt anyway. He's fast too. They also have a great linebacker in Colby Bockwalt, 6'5-235, blazing speed and lateral movement.
BYU's questionmarks are not in team speed anymore, but fundamental skill levels. This is where BYU has historically had great athletes but poor coaching. Those coaches are now GONE. BYU has been drilling the fundamental methods of playing the game and so these athletes now have the training to be exceptional, not just the physical and mental tools. They always had the talent. They just didn't develop it into a cohesive unit in the past. Their new coordinator will do that. He's never had the high calibre athletes he hs at BYU. With the bottom end of the 1-A spectrum he still produced top 25 defenses at UNM. Now he has real players beyond the occasional Brian Urlacher. He has a stable and so I think that the comments about South Carolina, which also has experienced a great deal of success with the 3-3-5 is meaningful. Unfortunately poor Lou Holtz never has enough offense to help his 3-3-5 out. BYU probably does and that makes them potentially very good. We'll see for real tomorrow.
If your research is through MacPaper or a few taut sheets/magazines and nothing more then you probably don't know much about BYU's personnel. I do. They have four players on their defense that appear on various pre-season AA lists. I had mentioned them in more detail in another post, but here's the list:
Poppinga - DE
Francisco - MB/Monster Back
Gilford - CB
Payne - P (defense) / PK (offense)
However to say BYU has a handful of good players only underestimates the real quality and depth they return this year. Not all are on the above list. Another frequently mentioned player Paul Walkenhorst, Sr. OLB is injured and will redshirt. They are otherwise very healthy this year.
As an analyst, I like their cornerback Heaney as much or more than Gilford. He has a knack for finding the ball but has a bum shoulder, will play hurt anyway. He's fast too. They also have a great linebacker in Colby Bockwalt, 6'5-235, blazing speed and lateral movement.
BYU's questionmarks are not in team speed anymore, but fundamental skill levels. This is where BYU has historically had great athletes but poor coaching. Those coaches are now GONE. BYU has been drilling the fundamental methods of playing the game and so these athletes now have the training to be exceptional, not just the physical and mental tools. They always had the talent. They just didn't develop it into a cohesive unit in the past. Their new coordinator will do that. He's never had the high calibre athletes he hs at BYU. With the bottom end of the 1-A spectrum he still produced top 25 defenses at UNM. Now he has real players beyond the occasional Brian Urlacher. He has a stable and so I think that the comments about South Carolina, which also has experienced a great deal of success with the 3-3-5 is meaningful. Unfortunately poor Lou Holtz never has enough offense to help his 3-3-5 out. BYU probably does and that makes them potentially very good. We'll see for real tomorrow.
Hate to break it to you Sports Reporter Guy... but BYU finished 90th in the nation against the run last season. Now I won't question your knowledge of their players but those "fundamental skills" were dang sure lacking last season. We ran up the middle all day long just like other teams.
Also looking at UNM... they gave up big chunks of yardage to all the good teams on their schedule last season. It's easy to shut down the have-nots
Also looking at UNM... they gave up big chunks of yardage to all the good teams on their schedule last season. It's easy to shut down the have-nots