Changes In Academics

oldgoldbee

oldgoldbee

Flats Noob
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
594
I am not trying to stir the waters with this
topic, but I am wondering if any of you have
any feelings or thoughts for changes to the
academics structure at Tech.

Let's face it today's atheletes are different
than the athletes that played in the 50's and
60's. Many of those atheletes were delighted
to have the opportunity to get a college degree
from Tech, and some were fortunate to go on
to pro sports.

With the addition of Miami and VT to the ACC,
the playing field has gotten even smaller for
schools like GT.

I am not saying that Tech needs to lower their
academic standards, but I would like to see
larger and more varied majors programs for the
athletes at Tech.

Would it be possible for Tech to co-exist with
Georgia State to offer such program? Is this
something that the school would take a hard
look at?

I believe that I remember that Vanderbilt had
some sort of co-existence with Peabody College
in Nashville to offer liberal arts programs to
their athletes.

I only want our athletic teams to be on the
same level playing field with our competition.

Are we all ready to accept teams that are
mediocre? Will a 7-5, 6-6, won-lost season
be satisfactory to you?

Anybody else out there have the same feelings
or thoughts?
 
Oldgoldbee, I did not attend Tech, so I want get entangled in this topic, but watch out for the hornets!

grin.gif
 
To my way of thinking the issue really comes down to this (before emotions take over anyway), should the desire to pursue athletic competition be a factor or should the school's charter (which hopefully reflects the needs of commerce) alone dictate what academic programs are offered?

When the football program's needs determine what programs are offered, the school is well down the road to being labeled a football factory and in many cases there is a corresponding drop in the value of the schools degrees in the marketplace.

Tech is and has been the preverbal man with one foot on the dock and the other in the boat on this one. If there is another Div 1A school with such a high academic standard and narrow curriculum, I’ve never heard of them.

We simply can’t decide to be one or the other and the boat is drifting further from the dock.
 
71, give me one solitary example of when and how a GT degree would be devalued in the job market. Complete Myth. THWG
 
Give Tech a coach who can sell ice to eskimoes, with an incredible personality and loyalty to Tech, and all our problems will be over.
Mr. Excitement is none of the above.
.
.
BOO
 
Originally posted by GoldZ:
71, give me one solitary example of when and how a GT degree would be devalued in the job market. Complete Myth. THWG
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Goldz,

I assume you are a fellow Tech man, which explains your poor reading comprehension. I never said Tech's degrees were devalued. So far, we are not adding degree programs like these two football factories (and I'm not making this up):

Florida State: Dance, Exercise Science, Health Education, Real Estate
Alabama: Athletic Training, Dance, Fitness Management, Physical Exercise, Restaurant & Hospitality Management

Now I can tell you from first-hand experience I have hired professional, managerial, and executive employees for over 20 years and one of the first things I look at is the academic reputation of the school graduated from.

Tech: AAA+
FSU, Alabama: don’t even bother

But if I had a few super jocks looking for a ship but were dumber than a door nail, who might be able to fit them in; Tech or FSU and Alabama?
 
71, I too have hired similar people for some 30 years. Yes, I'm a Tech grad and even managed in spite of obvious reading comprehension problems, to survive Harvard's B-School. Speaking of comprehension problems, my post said "would be", and yours said "drop in market value" (sounds a whole lot like devaluation to me!?)

Per your hiring philosophy, you must have turned away several outstanding candidates from the likes of: Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State, UVA, Florida, Ohio State, Duke, etc. etc. etc. etc., because they all have outstanding athletic programs AND highly regarded academic programs, NONE of which are tarnished one iota due to the fact that their athletes don't all take the same courses of study as the regular students.

Sorry, if you think I'm coming on too strong on this, but it's a very important element IMO, in GT's lack of expectations. Degree devaluation is a myth of grand proportions. THWG
 
I agree with GoldZ. I dont believe GT will have a devalued degree with the addition of a few more majors. If they were added and no one blew them out of proportion then no one would even think twice about it. The only thing that would bother me is that the AJC would run articles for a month stating GT adds dumb majors for their athletic program, or GT is no longer the smart school we all once thought of. You know how the AJC is.
 
GoldZ, here we go again, Tech is not now and I hope it never becomes a football factory; a school that places athletic success as their number 1 priority, nothing is more important than winning football games.

Is it possible to offer a broader, more diverse academic environment and still not be a football factory? Sure it is; some of the schools you have mentioned have done just that, Notre Dame (I think would be a good addition to the conference), Penn State, and Michigan fall into that category, Miami fits well too. To my knowledge, no history of scandals in any of the these schools.

But when a school starts adding degree programs in order to recruit better athletes, they have started down the slippery slope by putting athletics ahead of academics.

Who are the football factories, who have traded their schools reputation for athletic success?

Let's start with Alabama, then let's add FSU, how about UNLV, Georgia, and SMU (back on track now, seeking redemption). Can you think of a few more? Of course there are numerous schools that never had an academic reputation to lose...

Would I have hired someone from Alabama? Sure; once you get past the smell test, if their career accomplishments were significant and time since graduating more than a few years. Besides, they come cheaper than Tech grads..

I certainly would not recruit new graduates from Alabama, FSU, or Auburn. I was more than willing to pay more for Tech, Rensselaer, MIT, Cooper Union graduates.
 
Certainly we do not want to degrade the degree but we are headed for a difficult time with Clough being on the NCAA committee to improve standards.He has raised our bar for recruiting even HIGHER while the NCAA line has dropped.Also the new "progress" standard hurts us with our limited and difficult coursework.
Unless we get a new course offering that relates directly to sports( like sports mgt) or get the greatest salesman since Barnum (who also is a coaching genius)then we are going to have a very rough period in fball.
Ck our record 5 yrs from now and see if this is not so.Sad,a trainwreck in slow-motion right in front of us. imho
 
Once again the fact that we are a state supported institution whose goal is to serve the students and taxpayers of this state has escaped the masses.
 
Originally posted by AlaGold:
Certainly we do not want to degrade the degree but we are headed for a difficult time with Clough being on the NCAA committee to improve standards.He has raised our bar for recruiting even HIGHER while the NCAA line has dropped.Also the new "progress" standard hurts us with our limited and difficult coursework.
Unless we get a new course offering that relates directly to sports( like sports mgt) or get the greatest salesman since Barnum (who also is a coaching genius)then we are going to have a very rough period in fball.
Ck our record 5 yrs from now and see if this is not so.Sad,a trainwreck in slow-motion right in front of us. imho
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Yes, one foot on the dock (academics) and the other in the boat (Div 1A with championship ambitions).

Should the Board of Regents (all gentlemen with our institutes best interest at heart?) approve a program at Tech in order to make us more competitive in athletics or should we move away from Div 1A sports?

Every time this issue has come up in at least the last 50 years, once both sides quit convulsing on the floor at the thought of moving in the other direction, the decision has always been we can’t make a decision.

Children, you can’t have both, pick now or surly we will end up another Vanderbilt. A pretty lass and quite popular with the SEC boys.
 
Just a lowly sophmore at GT but here' my opinion:

Let's face it, my top priority in choosing GT was academics. That was the clincher for me. I could have payed less money and seen better football (arguably) at NC State (I'm from Raleigh), but I know that Tech is a better school from an academic standpoint.

However, when I and almost everyone I talk to thinks of Tech, we think engineering and science. Tech engineers are well known and respected throughout the country. This reputation is well established and is not going anywhere. When I graduate from Tech in a few years with a degree in MSE, I fully expect it to be valued more than a comparable(same major, gpa, etc) NC State, Clemson, or Auburn degree.

That said, I love college football. I love going to home games where the stands are filled with loud, rabid fans! I love psycho students that paint their bodies up and yell their lungs out for their team to win. Most of all though, I love seeing my team win.

So why can't we have both? Good engineering/science reputation, along with our excellent technical reputation. How would adding a few more liberal arts programs tarnish those getting engineering degrees? Of course no one is going to look very favorably upon a dance degree from Georgia Tech. But how would the school putting a BS dance program take away from someone applying for a job at an engineering firm?

Maybe I'm biased since I'm an engineering student, but I don't see why we can't add some programs with more liberal arts slant and not have any serious employeer take a second glance? This way we could more easily recruit the good athletes, hell maybe even attract a few more girls (because of the added liberal arts programs).

Just my opinion of course. I want to have something besides studying to look forward to on the weekends. An excellent football team/environment would be nice
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Originally posted by MSEJacketFan:
Just a lowly sophmore at GT but here' my opinion:

So why can't we have both? Good engineering/science reputation, along with our excellent technical reputation. How would adding a few more liberal arts programs tarnish those getting engineering degrees? Of course no one is going to look very favorably upon a dance degree from Georgia Tech. But how would the school putting a BS dance program take away from someone applying for a job at an engineering firm?

Maybe I'm biased since I'm an engineering student, but I don't see why we can't add some programs with more liberal arts slant and not have any serious employeer take a second glance? This way we could more easily recruit the good athletes, hell maybe even attract a few more girls (because of the added liberal arts programs).

Just my opinion of course. I want to have something besides studying to look forward to on the weekends. An excellent football team/environment would be nice
smile.gif
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Hi MSEJacketFan,

Welcome Bro; stay the course. First two years are the hardest.

Maybe we can, after all, it’s all just theory till it’s actually been done. My concern is not whether we add “easier” programs that might appeal to athletic oriented prospects, but how we conduct ourselves as an institution. Hell, if Tech did add a Dance degree, it would be the best and the hardest one in the country.

No, what I was stumbling around trying to say is if we are not careful in our enthusiasm to support improved athletic success, we might lose track of what’s right and wrong, like Alabama did with the payoffs. Same thing happened to Auburn in the 50s; Georgia, with the Herrick taught basketball courses, UNLV, and on and on.

When those things happen, and they do all too frequently, the whole university is hurt, not a death blow, but still hurt.

Just my opinion, don't take it as fact.

You’ve got pretty good writing skills for a Tech man……
 
Originally posted by 71YellowJacket:


Hell, if Tech did add a Dance degree, it would be the best and the hardest one in the country.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">LOL, 71. My daughter majored in psych at Tech, and had to run the gamut of 5 calculus courses! She was interested in Tech because high school friends were going there. She would not have gone if engineering or management had been her only options.

I really don't see a problem with sharing certain majors with Ga State, so long as there is plenty of classtime on the GT campus and the courses of study bear some relation to the math/science/engineering world.

Glad to hear from you, MSE, and I bet you're right about the resiliency of Tech's rep.
 
Lets put this issue to rest once and for all please.

Taken from the Board of Regents website:

THE GEORGIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
MISSION STATEMENT

A Shared Vision
Georgia Tech will be a leader among the few technological universities whose faculty, students, staff, and alumni create, expand, and communicate the frontiers of innovation. Georgia Tech seeks to create an enriched, more prosperous, and sustainable society for the citizens of Georgia, the nation, and the world.

A Common Mission

Georgia Tech will meet its unique statewide obligation for education in engineering and architecture, and its special responsibilities in computing, management, the sciences, and the technologically oriented aspects of humanities and social sciences. We seek and nurture undergraduate, masters, and Ph.D. students of extraordinary motivation and ability and prepare them for life-long leaming and leadership in a world that is increasingly dependent on technology. We maintain a faculty of exceptional talent, a relevant and rigorous curriculum, facilities that sustain outstanding achievement, and a commitment to excellence supported by a tradition of practicality, integrity, loyalty, and fair-play.

Georgia Tech is a leading center for research and technological development. We continually seek opportunities to advance society and the global economic competitiveness of Georgia and the nation. Our founding spirit of entrepreneurship sustains a focus on the application of science and technology to the creation of meaningful new ideas, methods, and the opportunities. We maintain beneficial partnerships with public and private sectors in education, research, and technology to retain our relevance and to assure that the benefits of discovery are widely disseminated and utilized.

Georgia Tech pursues its vision with the highest respect for the personal and intellectual rights of every member of its diverse community. In turn, we expect the fullest measure of effort from each to assure excellence; an ethical, well-managed institution; and the most effective use of our entrusted resources.

---------------------------------------

Now after you read that.... I challenge you to go peruse the current course catalog of ALL undergraduate degree offerings.

I challenge anyone to offer a degree that fits within our mission AND is not already offered. Not saying that there aren't more degrees we can offer; just that you have to seriously think about what you would add. Contrary to popular belief, we do offer liberal arts degrees. They simply are geared towards the sciece and technology aspects just as our mission states they should be.

I have my own opinions about how expanding would affect the value of my degree, but I think that whole arguement is moot. You add degrees because they are in alignment with our Vision and Mission. That is the ONLY way the Board of Regents would approve of expanding the curriculum. In case you didn't know... it is the BOR that has the final say so, not Tech and its football fans.
 
Hell Beeserk,

It's just a mission statement signed-off on by a bunch of Gag grads, it's not like God himself delivered it down from the mountain.

The BofR is the same group (when we were playing UGA like a drum every season) that said our school of commerece would fit very nicely into the UGA. Later, the same group split it off into GSC.

So take that mission thingy and add "Dance" to that second paragraph, like this:

A Common Mission

Georgia Tech will meet its unique statewide obligation for education in engineering and architecture, and its special responsibilities in computing, management, the sciences, the technologically oriented aspects of humanities, Dance, and social sciences. We seek and nurture undergraduate, masters, and Ph.D. students of extraordinary motivation and ability and prepare them for life-long leaming and leadership in a world that is increasingly dependent on technology. We maintain a faculty of exceptional talent, a relevant and rigorous curriculum, facilities that sustain outstanding achievement, and a commitment to excellence supported by a tradition of practicality, integrity, loyalty, and fair-play.
 
Originally posted by 71YellowJacket:
Hell Beeserk,

It's just a mission statement signed-off on by a bunch of Gag grads, it's not like God himself delivered it down from the mountain.

The BofR is the same group (when we were playing UGA like a drum every season) that said our school of commerece would fit very nicely into the UGA. Later, the same group split it off into GSC.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Yes, I am fully aware of who controls the BOR and their shennanigans. I don't think you give our current and past presidents enough credit for playing them like a fiddle all these years too.

Your conspiracy theory certainly does hold water to an extent. However, this city, the state of Georgia, and Ma Tech would not be what it is today if not for the adherence to the Vision and Mission. Furthermore, in this day and age the BOR and its rising Gags could really not care less if our football program is "on the rise" or beating ugag like a drum. Ga Tech is THE economic force for this state, and THAT is what counts now. Not if Coach Dodd is walking the sidelines or not.
 
We can and should have it both.....sterling academic reputation and a powerhouse football program. We can't have if we continue the current recruiting practices under CG. Let's recruit players for football and let the Hill take care of the academic side. Were on the fast-track to becoming Vandy or Duke with respect to football. What's wrong with being a football factory? .......Nothing.

GATA JACKETS!!!!
 
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