Clem's son meltdown thread....

TB needs to be fired.

Groh, TB, Gailey. Similar coaches. At least we got rid of our coach...

Skip Holtz -> Clemson
Randy Edsall -> UVA
 
ncjacket said:
I'm surprised that they choked so early in the year though. They usually run off a few wins and then tank.
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They usually start with patsies.

Alabama is decent in any case and I think better than people expected. Their play calling under McElwain was really good and they showed the crispest passing offense I've ever seen from an Alabama team.

OTOH, Clemson had shockingly poor line play.
 
I can't believe any rational person who is not a Bama fan would want them to ever win.

Or maybe this is my childhood Auburn bias showing.
 
ASimPerson said:
I can't believe any rational person who is not a Bama fan would want them to ever win.

Or maybe this is my childhood Auburn bias showing.
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Anything that keeps Clemson from winning a national championship is OK by me. They have 1. Alabama has 11. We'll never ... EVER ... catch Alabama. However Clemson winning another and having their most recent be after ours is a point of **** talk for their udder yoking weed toking hill billy fans to jump on.
 
law_bee said:
If we win the ACC we play in the orange bowl no matter if the every team in the ACC loses every game.
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Yes, but if this happens, GT will never get the opportunity to play for the MNC. But that seems to be a non-issue for some of us (see below).

Allen Koholic said:
The big picture is 'do we look like we'll be able to beat Georgia in 3 months'. All else is secondary, and borderline irrelevant.
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Allen Koholic said:
As for winning a national title, even this is secondary to beating Georgia for me.
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:eek: Seriously? We should just cut back to that one game each year then. It would save the AA a lot of money. And nothing else matters.
 
If we win the ACC we play in the orange bowl no matter if the every team in the ACC loses every game.
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Yes, but if this happens, GT will never get the opportunity to play for the MNC. But that seems to be a non-issue for some of us (see below).
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Wrong wrong wrong.

Supposing Tech goes undefeated, beats Georgia (by all accounts a great OOC opponent in any year) and wins the ACC title game. The ONLY way we'd be held out of the NC is if two other teams both went undefeated and were ranked higher in the coaches poll than us at the end of the year. The ONLY way we'd be held out is if there were 3 total undefeated BCS teams, AND they were both ranked ahead of us in the polls.

That's the ONLY way mathematically. Why? Because the BCS is a bunch of pussies and caved to the AP sportswriters claiming it was "broken" after Auburn didn't get to play in the title. They changed the math.

Now, with the new math, the clearest, easiest, and most direct way to the NC game is to be in a ****ty conference.

This is GOOD for us. Mathematically. Trust me. It's in the numbers.
 
I'm assuming that at least one of those "wrong"'s was directed at the OP in that you don't think we would always end up in the Orange.

I won't go so far as to tell any one they're wrong since it's all speculation, but...

disagree, disagree, disagree

You're still dealing with human polls. And as long as humans are involved, a one loss SEC or PAC 10 team is going to get more respect than an undefeated ACC team if everyone else in the ACC "loses every game" or at least is extremely unimpressive since that's not really possible.

Unless I'm mistaken, two thirds are human polls and the other third is an average of computer polls which in some way take into account who you play.

If UF's only loss was to UGA, I think UF plays an undefeated USC before GT would get in with this scenario.

Just my speculation though.
 
BJ is correct.

And to a hypothetical, a zero loss GT team with a win over UGA versus a UF team with a loss to UGA?

Not likely.

More likely if UF loses an earlier game and beats UGA much worse than us.
 
GTCrew said:
I agree with BJ.

And to a hypothetical, a zero loss GT team with a win over UGA versus a UF team with a loss to UGA?

Not likely.

More likely if UF loses an earlier game and beats UGA much worse than us.
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Fixed...

You can't say that someone is correct and then present a scenario that shoots down their statement that "the only way" would be if we were one of 3 undefeated teams.

However I do agree with you that a more likely scenario would be an early loss by UF and then beating UGA much worse than we did.
 
You're still dealing with human polls. And as long as humans are involved, a one loss SEC or PAC 10 team is going to get more respect than an undefeated ACC team if everyone else in the ACC "loses every game" or at least is extremely unimpressive since that's not really possible.
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Maybe for AP, not for Coaches. Recall, we've already won one NC because the Coaches picked the no loss team over a team with losses, which was actually the whole point behind the BCS formula. Lets take your example:

If UF's only loss was to UGA, I think UF plays an undefeated USC before GT would get in with this scenario.
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If UF's only loss was to UGA, and we beat UGA and went undefeated, then we're in before them.

Seriously, it's just math. It's how the math works.

If we didn't play UGA out of conference, or if UGA was worse than Duke, then yeah, maybe, but we've already got a quality OOC opponent on a national stage at the end of the year, guaranteed.

All we have to do to go to the NC is go undefeated in a BCS conference. It doesn't matter how bad that conference is, as long as they're part of the BCS monopoly.

Is it fair? Probably not. But it works in our favor.

When Auburn was held out of the NC, they had 4 nonconference games of Jacksonville State caliber or lower. Their SOS was wretched, and they were only barely held out. Then the BCS guys changed the math to make sure if that happened again, Auburn would get in. Any level of ACC wretchedness would get us in, under the revised formula, as long as we don't lose, and there's not 2 other undefeateds who started the year ranked higher than us.
 
LowcountryJacket said:
:eek: Seriously? We should just cut back to that one game each year then. It would save the AA a lot of money. And nothing else matters.
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The way I see it, I'm being a lot nicer to these young men then anyone else. You're asking that they win 12 games, I'm only asking for 1. I am on the record and I will believe this until the day I die: There's 11 preseason games and one that matters.

As for the zero loss ACC team versus a one loss PAC/SEC team debate, I still think, unless there's three undefeated teams on the table, we - or any other ACC team - gets to play for the MNC. The conference strength argument only applies when you've got the same number of losses. Ohio State proved that two years in a row. The BCS is set up to reward the team that managed to avoid losing, not the team that would be the best in country.
 
The conference strength argument only applies when you've got the same number of losses. Ohio State proved that two years in a row.
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Exactly.

The BCS is set up to reward the team that managed to avoid losing, not the team that would be the best in country.
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The modern "watered down" equation, yes. The original formula that the AP deemed "Broken" when Auburn didn't get to play for the NC, was perfect. In fact, its entire point was to prevent teams like Auburn who cancel their difficult OOC opponents (Georgia Tech) in favor of patsies, from going to the NC.
 
Allen Koholic said:
The way I see it, I'm being a lot nicer to these young men then anyone else. You're asking that they win 12 games, I'm only asking for 1.
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Depends on how you lok at it. I could say I'm being a lot nicer to them because I don't view an ACC Championship and an Orange Bowl victory a failure because we didn't beat UGA. In fact I was pleased when they made it to the ACCCG. I didn't enjoy sitting in that cold, wet mess watching the game. But I did think they had a good season that year.

And I've never asked them to win all 12 games. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see that. But it's not my expectation. But I will admit I expect them to win more than you expect them to.
 
12-0 with a win over UGA = BCS Nation Championship Game. End of discussion. It's so highly unlikely that the SEC or the BIG 12 produces a 12-0 team that we actually benefit having a weaker conference, the only two conferences we should worry about are PAC 10 and BIG 10 since they only have 1 or 2 good teams a piece.
 
GTMensLax&SoccerD1Soon! said:
12-0 with a win over UGA = BCS Nation Championship Game. End of discussion. It's so highly unlikely that the SEC or the BIG 12 produces a 12-0 team that we actually benefit having a weaker conference, the only two conferences we should worry about are PAC 10 and BIG 10 since they only have 1 or 2 good teams a piece.
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Big 10, yes. PAC-10 NO

i dont know why this continues to persist after the last few years. the PAC 10 is a tough conference. several tough teams in that conference, just one dominant team on the top -- USC
 
GTMensLax&SoccerD1Soon! said:
12-0 with a win over UGA = BCS Nation Championship Game. End of discussion. It's so highly unlikely that the SEC or the BIG 12 produces a 12-0 team that we actually benefit having a weaker conference, the only two conferences we should worry about are PAC 10 and BIG 10 since they only have 1 or 2 good teams a piece.
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"End of discussion." The almighty Lax has spoken. :bowdown: :D

Agreed it's highly unlikely for a team to go undefeated in the SEC. That's why I've been hypothetically discussing a one-loss SEC team.

Still, in my opinion (not saying I'm right or wrong), if everyone in the ACC finished 6-5 or 5-6 except us and we finished 12-0 (including ACCCG), we would get left out for a one-loss team from the SEC if they had to play 4-5 top 25 teams which isn't a stretch at all.

It all depends on where you're ranked at the start of the season, when you lose and who you play. We know the top SEC teams will be ranked higher at the beginning of the season than the top ACC teams (for now). If we didn't leap-frog them when they lost early, we wouldn't pass them as long as they kept winning. And the system relies on polls.
 
BuzzCzar said:
Big 10, yes. PAC-10 NO

i dont know why this continues to persist after the last few years. the PAC 10 is a tough conference. several tough teams in that conference, just one dominant team on the top -- USC
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+1 It's kinda funny. I work with a bunch of Huskies & Coug's and they're constantly jawin' on each other. Thing is, they're usually in a three way struggle with Stanford to not be on the bottom. It's kinda like listening to UNC & Dook fans go at it. :laugher:
 
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