Coaching

ThomsonJacket said:
I think we can all agree with a decent O line it wouldn't be in question. Key needs to go with the defense staff.
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I don't disagree but why is Key doing such a bad job for us yet he was good enough to be hired and retained by Saban?
None of the defensive coaches have any P5 coaching experience which explains a lot about where we are.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
Can you point me to a game other than the Pitt game that we weren't in a position go win and yet blew it because of atrocious offensive play calling?
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Attribution is a philosophical thing, and there's perhaps a little too much weight given to timing. Here's a thought experiment for you: we play the exact same game with all the exact same plays, with one difference, we swap a few of the drives so that BC takes a big lead and we're playing catch up at the end of the game. Say we score on our last 3 consecutive drives but still come up short. Again, same score, same drives, just a different order. Do you still blame the offense in this scenario? (It seems like you would not, because in this scenario, they weren't in a position to win at the end, despite everything else being the same.)
 
I was at the game. We looked like the bad news bears out there. However, this is 100% on coaching, as it has been all season. On D, we play great on 1rst and 2nd, but what the eff is the issue on 3rd down? Why are our corners always getting left in the dust? And on offense, Jordan has legs but why was he not throwing the ball vertical? It was always a quick throw to the sideline or shovel pass. I thought we had legit WR's? I just don't understand. Please help me.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
Attribution is a philosophical thing, and there's perhaps a little too much weight given to timing. Here's a thought experiment for you: we play the exact same game with all the exact same plays, with one difference, we swap a few of the drives so that BC takes a big lead and we're playing catch up at the end of the game. Say we score on our last 3 consecutive drives but still come up short. Again, same score, same drives, just a different order. Do you still blame the offense in this scenario? (It seems like you would not, because in this scenario, they weren't in a position to win at the end, despite everything else being the same.)
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The key words in your post are "with all the exact same plays". That's the problem: why would you run the exact same plays when there were WAY TOO MANY PLAYS that didn't stand a chance from the get go. The plays that worked so well, even though obviously a repeat would not ensure the same results, would still eave the plays that didn't work at all, and there's no reason to expect they would work in the repeat either. Any and every team runs plays that work but not work when repeated, but no team runs plays that don't stand a chance of working and end up working in the repeat. STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING and don't run meaningless plays that never have and never will stand a chance.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
The key words in your post are "with all the exact same plays". That's the problem: why would you run the exact same plays when there were WAY TOO MANY PLAYS that didn't stand a chance from the get go. The plays that worked so well, even though obviously a repeat would not ensure the same results, would still eave the plays that didn't work at all, and there's no reason to expect they would work in the repeat either. Any and every team runs plays that work but not work when repeated, but no team runs plays that don't stand a chance of working and end up working in the repeat. STICK WITH WHAT IS WORKING and don't run meaningless plays that never have and never will stand a chance.
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Yes, those are indeed the key words in my post. I'm not sure what I was thinking, making a post like that.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
Can you point me to a game other than the Pitt game that we weren't in a position go win and yet blew it because of atrocious offensive play calling?
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The D has given up an average of 35 points per game since Pitt. If your solution is for the O to be able to average more than 35 points per game to win then you are delusional.

Put another way: if the D had given up 28 points in every game since Pitt then BC, Miami and UVA would have been wins.
 
ee8384 said:
The D has given up an average of 35 points per game since Pitt. If your solution is for the O to be able to average more than 35 points per game to win then you are delusional.

Put another way: if the D had given up 28 points in every game since Pitt then BC, Miami and UVA would have been wins.
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If you can't see that when P'Nut calls sensible plays, the results are almost exclusively positive, then there is nothing more I can say.
 
I told my wife tonight that I could call better plays on offense and defense than the two clowns on the sideline. She agreed :)
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
In spite of our horrible defense, we have been in a position to win every game except the Pitt game. That says offensive coaching to me.
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That is a really weird perspective. If our defense is acknowledged as horrible, yet the offense has managed to score enough to keep us in every game except one, wouldn't that point to the offensive coaching being good? Especially given that the talent deficit on O is theoretically the same or larger than on D given the shift away from the TO?

Not that the difficulty of the transition justifies winning only 3 games in season 3, or that the offense is fantastic, but it seems very strange to say the defense is horrible but we've still come close to winning every game so the problem is on offense.

Perhaps offensive coaching is a problem (although it seems to only be the playcalling you take issue with) but this is the wrong approach to that argument in my opinion.
 
andrew said:
That is a really weird perspective. If our defense is acknowledged as horrible, yet the offense has managed to score enough to keep us in every game except one, wouldn't that point to the offensive coaching being good? Especially given that the talent deficit on O is theoretically the same or larger than on D given the shift away from the TO?

Not that the difficulty of the transition justifies winning only 3 games in season 3, or that the offense is fantastic, but it seems very strange to say the defense is horrible but we've still come close to winning every game so the problem is on offense.

Perhaps offensive coaching is a problem (although it seems to only be the playcalling you take issue with) but this is the wrong approach to that argument in my opinion.
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Not at all, because that same offensive coaching that put us in positions to win also reverted to STUPID plays or, as in the Clemson game, the calling of time outs that invariably denied us the win. P'Nut got us so far doing the right things, and then stopped us by calling the wrong plays, and anybody watching the games could (can) see that. And it wasn't a case of poor execution. The plays he calls, mostly but not exclusively in the red zone are and have been simply STUPID in all but a very few cases.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
Not at all, because that same offensive coaching that put us in positions to win also reverted to STUPID plays or, as in the Clemson game, the calling of time outs that invariably denied us the win. P'Nut got us so far doing the right things, and then stopped us by calling the wrong plays, and anybody watching the games could (can) see that. And it wasn't a case of poor execution. The plays he calls, mostly but not exclusively in the red zone are and have been simply STUPID in all but a very few cases.
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Yeah, I agree there have some very bad playcalls and it feels like our offense could be great instead of just pretty good.

But the way I see it, the defense is absolutely terrible, with almost no redeeming qualities. It does nothing but put us in position to lose games. Whereas the offense is pretty good. I mean, using your words, the offensive coaches "put us in positions to win" and "got us so far doing the right things". Unfortunately, they also make some bad playcalls that stop us from overcoming the holes the defense inevitably plays us into.

So in terms of coaching problems on the team, I'd say the defensive coaching staff is far and away the biggest problem. Feels like we need to clean house there. But on offense? That's where I actually have seen improvement over the past three years, and it's actually playing at a decent level. Personally, I'd rather stick with them for another season while addressing the D side of the ball. And maybe tweak the playcalling somehow (easier said than done without changing OC, I know.)
 
[QUOTE="andrew, post: 2883901, member: 6326"

So in terms of coaching problems on the team, I'd say the defensive coaching staff is far and away the biggest problem. Feels like we need to clean house there. But on offense? That's where I actually have seen improvement over the past three years, and it's actually playing at a decent level. Personally, I'd rather stick with them for another season while addressing the D side of the ball. And maybe tweak the playcalling somehow (easier said than done without changing OC, I know.)
[/QUOTE]
The defense consistently puts us behind the Eight Ball. The frustrating part is we usually give up scores to wide open receivers. Its seems to happen several times a game indicating it's not a blown coverage but an issue with scheme.
When we NEED a score or drive our offense goes MIA. We have a real issue with sustaining drives and red zone offense. Yesterday we got the ball inside the 50 twice from onside kicks and produced no points. BC was building momentum and we HAD to score but failed to do so.

Our O has improved but thats not saying much.
 
Yesterday was a classic example of why CDP is so frustrating. He actually schemed a decent offensive gameplan to start the game. It was creative and put our players in position to take advantage of what BC initially gameplanned for. But after that…wet farts. The man is horrible at adjusting his gameplan and actually just completely flubs on his real-time playcalling. Just terrible situational awareness of what’s working and what we need to be exploiting.
 
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