Early Signing Day

[GTCrew]

Goliaths behavior hasn’t changed. We see that from the committ numbers I mentioned. They get the vast majority of their Plan As and scoop up their Plan Bs from the Davids (ie we lost a kid to USC & we stole a guy from Rutgers). The only differnence is this happened in Dec instead of February.

Wrong. Alabama only landed two 5 stars last year and has three this year per 247. Before that they were landing a lot more, routinely 6.

Lots of five star kids are still available, but Alabama is near maxed with the 4 stars that they cant now pull. And now even if the land five star kids with the few open spots left, Saban cant manage his roster like he would like. By that I mean if he lands a 5 star QB, he cant drop the 4 star who already signed. So he gets 2 QBs when he only wanted one and the roster management page said to use the second scholarship for a different position.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

Wrong. Alabama only landed two 5 stars last year and has three this year per 247. Before that they were landing a lot more, routinely 6.

Lots of five star kids are still available, but Alabama is near maxed with the 4 stars that they cant now pull. And now even if the land five star kids with the few open spots left, Saban cant manage his roster like he would like. By that I mean if he lands a 5 star QB, he cant drop the 4 star who already signed. So he gets 2 QBs when he only wanted one and the roster management page said to use the second scholarship for a different position.

LOL. They’re #1 in recruiting this year. What a terrible example.

 

[coit]

LOL. They’re #1 in recruiting this year. What a terrible example.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The rule is not for the schools, it is for the kids. The kids that get screwed by schools like Bama at the last minute and then have no where to go. And it helps teams like us a little bit in the example like the kid that flipped to USC on us. Now instead of having to take what is left over after NSD, we have a couple of months to recruit the kids that didn't sign early. And as has been pointed out multiple times now, the kid that might've been dropped by Bama on NSD (grayshirted) before has just signed with them, and he's locked in for a scholly that he wouldn't have gotten in the previous system.

So, in summary:

• Good for non-5* kids.
• Good for non-factory colleges
• Bad for factory colleges

 

[GTCrew]

LOL. They’re #1 in recruiting this year. What a terrible example.

LOL is a cognitive dissonance response. The fact is the new program affects all the factories, not just Alabama. I chose them because they are the top program.

They still get #1 but with only three five stars when they used to get six routinely. That should tell you something, but it wont.

It would spread even more if the players could sign a LOI at any time.

 

[txsting]

It changes nothing except expedite the timeline/deadline.

Someone should be able to sign as soon as they want.

Exactly. If you're ready to commit, sign the damn LOI. Otherwise get off the lawn. This is the way it should work.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

Why is this so hard for you to understand? The rule is not for the schools, it is for the kids. The kids that get screwed by schools like Bama at the last minute and then have no where to go. And it helps teams like us a little bit in the example like the kid that flipped to USC on us. Now instead of having to take what is left over after NSD, we have a couple of months to recruit the kids that didn't sign early. And as has been pointed out multiple times now, the kid that might've been dropped by Bama on NSD (grayshirted) before has just signed with them, and he's locked in for a scholly that he wouldn't have gotten in the previous system.

So, in summary:

• Good for non-5* kids.
• Good for non-factory colleges
• Bad for factory colleges

It’s not hard for me to understand. I just don’t agree with the value you guys are arguing. The timelines only shifted for EVERYTHING you’ve laid out. Everything you’re talking just happens a month and half sooner. This isn’t some paradigm shift you guys want to make it.

 

[coit]

It’s not hard for me to understand. I just don’t agree with the value you guys are arguing. The timelines only shifted for EVERYTHING you’ve laid out. Everything you’re talking just happens a month and half sooner. This isn’t some paradigm shift you guys want to make it.

Read this and come back.

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2016/02/nick_saban_explains_alabamas_g.html


Kid that had been committed since April was grayshirted 2 weeks before NSD. Under the new system, if he gets grayshirted before the early signing day, he has 2 months, not 2 weeks, to check out his options. You don't see the value in that?

And, it gives schools like us 2 months to look at kids who got screwed over by the factories.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

LOL is a cognitive dissonance response. The fact is the new program affects all the factories, not just Alabama. I chose them because they are the top program.

They still get #1 but with only three five stars when they used to get six routinely. That should tell you something, but it wont.

It would spread even more if the players could sign a LOI at any time.

Check out 247’s total recruiting points for Bama going back 5 years. There’s a pretty amazing trend line. It torpoedos your point, which is why I was laughing at you.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

Read this and come back.

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2016/02/nick_saban_explains_alabamas_g.html


Kid that had been committed since April was grayshirted 2 weeks before NSD. Under the new system, if he gets grayshirted before the early signing day, he has 2 months, not 2 weeks, to check out his options. You don't see the value in that?

And, it gives schools like us 2 months to look at kids who got screwed over by the factories.

Sounds like Bama ööööed over a kid in December instead of February. Exactly, what I’ve been saying.

Do you think that kid and his family care one iota about finding a school that has room? Cause most everyone is full now like they would be in Feb.

You honestly can’t see that?

 

[coit]

Sounds like Bama ööööed over a kid in December instead of February. Exactly, what I’ve been saying.

Do you think that kid and his family care one iota about finding a school that has room? Cause most everyone is full now like they would be in Feb.

You honestly can’t see that?

Show me a school that has no schollys to give right now. I'm sure we have some to give.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

Show me a school that has no schollys to give right now. I'm sure we have some to give.

Why is that question any different from that kid’s perspective whether you ask it now or a month and half from now?

He’s got to struggle through the same bullshit.

 

[coit]

Why is that question any different from that kid’s perspective whether you ask it now or a month and half from now?

He’s got to struggle through the same bullshit.

You said most everyone is full. I say that isn't the case.

The point is that the kid that gets grayshirted has two months to find another home. If a kid was given an offer, either he's grayshirted right now, or he's locked in and can't be dropped at this point. If he's locked in, Satan can't take it away from him in February. You do realize that, right?

You seem to care more about how it helps the school when that really isn't the point. The main point of the change was to address this grayshirting trend. You don't have to take our word for it. Here', have another article, there's tons of them out there:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/06/05/early-signing-period-recruiting-coaches

Oh look, this is good for players and bad for coaches:

To hear the coaches tell it, the NCAA’s Football Oversight Committee and Division I council passed a bunch of new rules—including the early signing period—to make changes for the sake of making changes. But when they say they can’t imagine whom an early signing period might help or that they can’t see how it helps the players, they’re not being entirely honest. They know exactly how the early signing period will help the players.

Oh look, coaches don't like having to commit earlier:

For decades, coaches have had a huge upper hand in the recruiting process. They knew how the system worked. For the most part, the recruits and their parents had no idea. Sure, a few of the best players could dictate terms and string along the coaches, but this lopsided information dynamic allowed coaches to dictate the terms of the process to the vast majority of recruits.

Recently, services such as Rivals, Scout, and 247Sports have pulled back the curtain on the recruiting process and allowed players and their parents to become educated. Still, coaches controlled one vital piece of information—whether their scholarship offer actually was an offer.

Now, coaches have to put their cards on the table six weeks earlier. Some of them hate that.

Before this recruiting cycle, coaches could watch the dominos fall through December and January and either cut loose committed players or ask them to take a grayshirt, which would require them to delay enrollment until the spring of the following year. Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh made headlines in January of ’16 for pruning his recruiting class of committed players. Alabama’s Nick Saban has made headlines in multiple years for having the grayshirt conversation with players close to National Signing Day. (Grayshirting as a practice is fine; the problem is when coaches spring the conversation on a player just before National Signing Day when the player has fewer options.)

You mean some players with offers never actually get what they were supposedly offered?

When programs sent the FedEx envelopes containing scholarship papers in the first week of February, that’s the first time the players learned whether their scholarship offer was real. In most cases, they were. But on Dec. 18 and Dec. 19 of this year, when some players go looking for those envelopes, they’re not going to find them.

This irks some coaches for several reasons. First, coaches hate change. Second, they hate anything that makes their lives more difficult. Third, many hate anything that offers a modicum of power to the player. In this case, knowledge is power.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

You said most everyone is full. I say that isn't the case.

The point is that the kid that gets grayshirted has two months to find another home. If a kid was given an offer, either he's grayshirted right now, or he's locked in and can't be dropped at this point. If he's locked in, Satan can't take it away from him in February. You do realize that, right?

You seem to care more about how it helps the school when that really isn't the point. The main point of the change was to address this grayshirting trend. You don't have to take our word for it. Here', have another article, there's tons of them out there:

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/06/05/early-signing-period-recruiting-coaches

Oh look, this is good for players and bad for coaches:



Oh look, coaches don't like having to commit earlier:






You mean some players with offers never actually get what they were supposedly offered?

Upfront, that’s great info. I do appreciate the link. I’ll need to spend more time truly digesting it but only reading what is quoted I’m not sure it’ll persuade me. I will read it in its entirety though. I do actually care about putting the power in their hands and thinking about the impacts to the players.

That’s why I want a kid to sign as soon as he wants whether that be his junior year or whether he’s a seventh grader.

I’m simply not convinced by the arguments being made. Truth be told, I likely misspoke when I said most schools are “nearly full.” Sure, there are factories or non-Dream schools with some amount of spots open for him to choose, but I don’t agree that would be so noticeably different than in Feb. The trend to “be different” and enjoy the attention that comes from recruitment through delaying your commitment has been happening for awhile. I got the sense year over year that number increased long before this rule change. So, schools had more and more open spots waiting and recruiting those last few longer and longer after February. More than ever and even before the rule change, grey shirt victims started to have a much better chance to land on their feet. Because of that, I don’t have the sense the rule change actually helped them noticeably as much as you guys do.

 

[coit]

That’s why I want a kid to sign as soon as he wants whether that be his junior year or whether he’s a seventh grader.

Well we certainly agree on this. I'm not sure why an offer can be made before such time as an offer can be accepted.