FOOTBALL RECRUITING: GaTech vs. Notre Dame

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hiveredtech

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I thought this particularly relevant...since the media keeps mentioning it is a rebuilding year for ND...and they lost their starting QB and star WR and everything.

Rankings for past 5 recruiting classes

Scout
2003 ND- 5
2003 GT- 34

2004 ND- 30
2004 GT- 35

2005 ND- 27
2005 GT- 48

2006 ND- 5
2006 GT- 49

2007 ND- 11
2007 GT- 15

Rivals
2003 ND- 12
2003 GT- 50

2004 ND- 32
2004 GT- 56

2005 ND- 40
2005 GT- 62

2006 ND- 8
2006 GT- 57

2007 ND- 8
2007 GT- 18
 
Case in point that recruiting rankings and/or stars are NOT the end all. They definitely have relevance, but not to the extent that people think.
 
yes, but ND played a record number of freshmen and sophomores in the game... it was the most underclassmen that ever played in one game at ND. again, GT's experience was a decisive edge. young talent is good to have and will benefit a team down the road, but experience really gives teams clear advantages. players have to have time to develop and gel and ND clearly hasnt had that yet

now, i'll agree that star rankings aren't the tell-all, end-all.... but you cant directly compare the two like this and disregard experience
 
We need a backpeddling smiley. Or, at the very least, a foot-in-mouth smiley.
 
instant oatmeal said:
yes, but ND played a record number of freshmen and sophomores in the game... it was the most underclassmen that ever played in one game at ND.
Click to expand...

...so what happened to these recruiting classes: (?)

2003 ND- 5
2003 GT- 34

2004 ND- 30
2004 GT- 35

2005 ND- 27
2005 GT- 48

or..

2003 ND- 12
2003 GT- 50

2004 ND- 32
2004 GT- 56

2005 ND- 40
2005 GT- 62

?

Where'd those recruits go? You clearly had better recruiting years for your junior and senior classes than we did, right?

:P
 
Don't bother beej, all Irish fans have bought into this "no talent' excuse suddenly. The real fact is their all star coaching staff simply doesn't have players ready to play when it's time to play. Nobody cares how old or young players are. You either play or you don't.
 
instant oatmeal said:
yes, but ND played a record number of freshmen and sophomores in the game... it was the most underclassmen that ever played in one game at ND. again, GT's experience was a decisive edge. young talent is good to have and will benefit a team down the road, but experience really gives teams clear advantages. players have to have time to develop and gel and ND clearly hasnt had that yet

now, i'll agree that star rankings aren't the tell-all, end-all.... but you cant directly compare the two like this and disregard experience
Click to expand...

It does make sense that ND's two bad recruiting classes were when those recruits would now be Juniors and Seniors. It shows that ND had to resort to underclassmen due to how much those classes sucked. In that sense, the recruiting rankings are vindicated.

What doesn't make sense, though, is that GT did worse than even ND's two bad recruiting classes and, in fact, worse in all of the last five years. If ND had problems due to bad recruiting, GT should have had them even moreso. Well, of course, something else is going on here, where either GT coaching is better or the recruiting rankings are biased against GT.
 
Danged good post hiveredtech,
Just points out the point that much more that Ga Tech flat out whipped ND's butt, nuf said.
 
How do F$Us recruiting classes rank over the same period? We're hearing the same things from them as we're hearing from ND - that they just don't have the athletes that they're used to having.
 
ContactBuzz said:
How do F$Us recruiting classes rank over the same period? We're hearing the same things from them as we're hearing from ND - that they just don't have the athletes that they're used to having.
Click to expand...

Here you go for FSU and Miami...eye opening how highly rated they are coming in!

FSU
Rivals:
2003- 21
2004- 3
2005- 3
2006- 3
2007- 21

FSU
Scout:
2003- 12
2004- 4
2005- 3
2006- 12
2007- 33

Miami (FL)
Rivals:
2003- 5
2004- 4
2005- 7
2006- 14
2007- 19

Miami (FL)
Scout:
2003- 6
2004- 3
2005- 12
2006- 14
2007- 13
 
I don't doubt that the rating system is correct. It rates players based on pure athletic talent coming out of high school. However, what it doesn't necessarily take into account is character, work ethic, off-field issues, etc. Many of the blue chippers can coast on athletic ability alone in high school.

SO, I think the non-athletic factors are the prime areas that have done in schools with highly ranked recruiting classes that should be far and away better than those classes brought in at GT. In other words, pure talent will take you a long way, but it doesn't always get you there. Miami and F$U are just case in point.

While other programs do take notice of these issues, I would say that the Scout and Rivals rankings show that Georgia Tech does a pretty good job of balancing talent and character to move toward the desired result. I also think that we can continue to bring in highly ranked recruiting classes who also have high character a la 2006.

All that being said, I don't know what ND's problem is because I don't remember any recent character or off-field problems with their team. Must just be coaching. ;)
 
mm42 said:
You did, in your pre-game prediction! ;):):D:woot:
Click to expand...

not true... ND has a ton of a talent. i wont deny it. however, their talent is highly inexperienced, and there is a huge learning curve from high school to college. i suspected that the supposed talent gap would play in ND's favor.... mixed with other intangibles (new DC, homefield, etc...) to give ND just enough to be able to win.


and those other players from the junior and senior classes? there are 7 remaining seniors from that recruiting class -- the rest quit or transferred. there were juniors that played... but most of them for the first time in their career. if ND wouldve played GT later in the year, i believe that this game would've been a lot different, but they were breaking in an entirely new offensive squad and new defensive gameplan.... there just wasn't enough experience.


that being said, GT is known to perennially "overachieve" when referencing the talent expectations of their recruits.
 
instant oatmeal said:
there are 7 remaining seniors from that recruiting class
Click to expand...

You make some interesting points...but Weis' soundbite does not make much sense.

Notre Dame still has 9 of its 2003 recruiting class...compared to 7 at GT.

The 9 from 2003 (per Rivals):
Brockington
Carlson
Laws
Price
Stephenson, Jr.
Sullivan
Thomas, Travis
Wooden
Zbikowski
 
ahem...

beej67 said:
...so what happened to these recruiting classes: (?)

2003 ND- 5
2003 GT- 34

2004 ND- 30
2004 GT- 35

2005 ND- 27
2005 GT- 48

or..

2003 ND- 12
2003 GT- 50

2004 ND- 32
2004 GT- 56

2005 ND- 40
2005 GT- 62

?

Where'd those recruits go? You clearly had better recruiting years for your junior and senior classes than we did, right?

:P
Click to expand...

;)
 
good point... those 5th year seniors are vital to the team, too.

this is off-topic, but i'm going to spill a bit about those 9 guys:


looking into the future, i see Brockington becoming a backup to Toryan Smith... even though Smith played poorly on Saturday.

Carlson will be an NFL TE... he's one of the best in the nation, and Weis's offense utilizes him extremely well (when he's not blocking in max coverage like he did the whole first half).

laws was a beast on saturday and he is the only proven player on the D Line....i'm so happy he stayed.

price surprised me. he was one of the best punters in the nation last year, but his first few punts were horrid. i hope he was having jitters and wasnt simply regressing. either way, all irish fans cheered when he came back for a 5th year.

Stephenson is a backup only because our DL is so thin. Ty failed to recruit true DL and OL while at ND, instead focusing on skill positions, and ND is paper thin at all positions. Stephenson has never seen the field before this year, and he was victimized by GT when he took Brown's place.

Sullivan was the only irish OL to play well on saturday... he's a great center.

travis thomas is a great special teams player. he was a pretty horrible running back then was switched to LB where he was also awful (didnt have a tackle in the final 6 games), and now he's back at RB, but i feel he wont get too many carries in the future. he is a great leader and a hard worker, he just doesnt have it.

Wooden is a backup CB. he's been victimized the past two years as the weak CB, and this year he was passed by our sophomore Walls. Wooden came in after Walls went down with an injury in the second half. Apparently, Walls is good to go this week for PSU, so Wooden is back on the bench.

Zibby is Zibby. David Copperfield is jealous at how well he disappears. he gets so much hype, but he hasnt done anything since last year's PSU game. most irish fans were ready for him to move on last year and let the new faces get some gametime.
 
beej67 said:
ahem...



;)
Click to expand...



i replied with this:

The Smartest Best Looking Strongest Man Ever said:
and those other players from the junior and senior classes? there are 7 remaining seniors from that recruiting class -- the rest quit or transferred. there were juniors that played... but most of them for the first time in their career. if ND wouldve played GT later in the year, i believe that this game would've been a lot different, but they were breaking in an entirely new offensive squad and new defensive gameplan.... there just wasn't enough experience.
Click to expand...
 
One thing that I think being glossed over is the continuity of the coaching staffs of the four schools (Miami & F$U included).

We've seen the Miami problems pretty close up with Coker and now Shannon taking over. Bowden has been struggling since his assistants started stepping up. Weis' upperclassmen are Willingham recruits. On the other hand, we lost our OC and that may have impacted the quality of the passing game, but he was instructed to not screw with the running game.

As much fire as HCCG is always under, he has got to be credited with maintaining his best assistants and building a solid recruiting base that fits their game plans.
 
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