Fumble Mystery Solved

mm42

mm42

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Jul 25, 2002
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Apparently a ruling of simultaneous possession cannot be challenged. I couldn't figure out why Coach Johnson didn't challenge that - instead he was screaming "Check the replay!" at the refs.

Tech didn't challenge the ruling of FSU's ball on the fumble on the opening kickoff because Johnson said they couldn't. The ruling on the field was simultaneous possession, which Johnson said isn't reviewable.
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http://www.ajc.com/sports/georgia-tech/tech-will-simplify-defense-160263.html
 
Seems to me we could have challenged the issue of when the ball-carrier (meaning our guy who recovered the fumble) was down by contact. Evidence clearly showed that he was down by contact with solo possession prior to any dual possession which may have happened. Not saying PJ screwed up; I'm sure he was just flat out told no by the officials when he asked to review.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
Seems to me we could have challenged the issue of when the ball-carrier (meaning our guy who recovered the fumble) was down by contact. Evidence clearly showed that he was down by contact with solo possession prior to any dual possession which may have happened. Not saying PJ screwed up; I'm sure he was just flat out told no by the officials when he asked to review.
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Exactly. Seemed to me he clearly had the ball and was down by contact. Clear as day. Can't you review it the GT player was down by contact?
 
odw said:
Exactly. Seemed to me he clearly had the ball and was down by contact. Clear as day. Can't you review it the GT player was down by contact?
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No, because I think we know more about rules than the ACC officials.

Like I mentioned in another thread, the official couldn't call a blatant holding penalty on Bay-Bay because he was too busy faceplanting after falling over a yard-marker.

ACC officiating just IS NOT good. Period.
 
odw said:
Exactly. Seemed to me he clearly had the ball and was down by contact. Clear as day. Can't you review it the GT player was down by contact?
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I believe the reason you can't review is because the actual CALL was simultaneous possession....regardless of what you are challenging that it should have been.
 
TechinItEasy said:
I believe the reason you can't review is because the actual CALL was simultaneous possession....regardless of what you are challenging that it should have been.
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Yeah, but that call was made after he was down by contact, wasn't it? I know that the refs didn't rule simultaneous possession when our guy had the ball all by himself and was obviously down; they must have just not seen that part of the play. Simultaneous can't have been called until after the cluster-hunch that happened. Plus, they sure did look at and sort out the pile for an awful long time for refs who had already ruled simultaneous possession.... Just seems to me that the fact that something non-reviewable happened after our guy was down doesn't mean you can't review whether the guy was down by contact before the fumble. I suspect that the ACC refs misapplied the rules.
 
CPJ has to save this play on film for when it's his turn to talk on the rules committee. Something MUST be done when it is blatantly obvious that the refs made a bad call. What's the point of not allowing a review on a play that ISN'T a judgement call. Reviews should only be banned on judgement call plays (pass interference, holding, etc.) not possession or spot of the ball plays.
 
cajunjacket said:
CPJ has to save this play on film for when it's his turn to talk on the rules committee. Something MUST be done when it is blatantly obvious that the refs made a bad call. What's the point of not allowing a review on a play that ISN'T a judgement call. Reviews should only be banned on judgement call plays (pass interference, holding, etc.) not possession or spot of the ball plays.
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Won't happen. The ACC is full of the worst officials in the land. You can give a monkey a bicycle. You can show him videos of how to ride it, teach him how and show him where he needs to go. And at the end of the day, he's not going to ride that bike, he's going to begin flinging **** at everyone possible.

Plus, Swofford will only be mad because the mighty Bobby Bowden lost a game and made the ACC look bad. Next week, the officials will be even worse.
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
Yeah, but that call was made after he was down by contact, wasn't it? I know that the refs didn't rule simultaneous possession when our guy had the ball all by himself and was obviously down; they must have just not seen that part of the play. Simultaneous can't have been called until after the cluster-hunch that happened. Plus, they sure did look at and sort out the pile for an awful long time for refs who had already ruled simultaneous possession.... Just seems to me that the fact that something non-reviewable happened after our guy was down doesn't mean you can't review whether the guy was down by contact before the fumble. I suspect that the ACC refs misapplied the rules.
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Exactly. It took those officials an eternity to unpile everyone. That was ridiculous.
 
cajunjacket said:
CPJ has to save this play on film for when it's his turn to talk on the rules committee. Something MUST be done when it is blatantly obvious that the refs made a bad call. What's the point of not allowing a review on a play that ISN'T a judgement call. Reviews should only be banned on judgement call plays (pass interference, holding, etc.) not possession or spot of the ball plays.
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Yeah, we were getting bad spots all day too. The refs were putting the ball a full yard behind where they should have while we were on offense. Its not going to be rosy when these terrible refs cost us a game.
 
cajunjacket said:
CPJ has to save this play on film for when it's his turn to talk on the rules committee. Something MUST be done when it is blatantly obvious that the refs made a bad call. What's the point of not allowing a review on a play that ISN'T a judgement call. Reviews should only be banned on judgement call plays (pass interference, holding, etc.) not possession or spot of the ball plays.
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Simultaneous possession IS a judgment call. However, there's no reason we shouldn't have been able to challenge that our player was down by contact before the simultaneous possession ruling was made. Kind of like how pass interference is a judgment call and can't be challenged, but the defense could challenge that the pass was thrown past the line of scrimmage before the interference happened.
 
gth816f said:
Simultaneous possession IS a judgment call. However, there's no reason we shouldn't have been able to challenge that our player was down by contact before the simultaneous possession ruling was made. Kind of like how pass interference is a judgment call and can't be challenged, but the defense could challenge that the pass was thrown past the line of scrimmage before the interference happened.
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It all depends on how you define judgement.

After recovering the fumble our player's knee was on the ground. He was down. When the ball is in your hands and you are down, the play ends. The ball wasn't moving in our guy's hands. He was piled on by FSU thugs who ripped the ball out of his hands at the bottom of the pile. This happens all the time, but usually the guy isn't down before the pile up occurs. Hence, this play could have been reviewed in the NFL. Before the pile up occurred, the guy was down and had the ball in his hands.

Now, if the pile up occurred while the guy was falling down, then I agree with you. It is pure judgement. But this wasn't the case. The guy was noticeably down with possession prior to the pile up.
 
GEHJ is right on. Why do people think one of our guys was congratulating our guy who had the ball by patting him on the back while on the ground. He was down with sole possession...done deal....otherwise Josh's miracle "recovery" wouldn't stand.
 
To agree with you all talking about the down by contact being reviewable. When Simultaneous possession is the call possession is awarded to the team that last had possession. The replay could have shown that we had possession before the scrum took place.
 
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