Get the Ball to the A-Backs

[PointAfterTouchdown]

Ant was a hard runner. He hit the holes much harder than our b backs of the past. If the back was going to get the ball 34.5% of the time this year, I would much rather Ant get the carries than any of our other backs.

 

[GTCrew4b]

Oh, so you're saying that CPJ could just stick any old RB in there and he'll get 1000+ yards - that B-Back isn't a skill position and regardless of the size, strength and abilities of the RB, the "position" will produce 1000+ yards because it's the nature of the position. That's what you're saying, right?

Thanks for clearing that up.

yes and that's what CPJ said after JD left.

"I would be shocked if the B-Back position does not get us 1000 yards next year."

I think he would say the same every year.

For Example:

Navy: Teich + Vince Murray (lost starting job to Teich)= 382+825=1,207 yards
Air Force: Tew + Walker (filled in while Tew broke leg)= 599+470=1,069 yards
Army: Hassin= 1,013 yards

However I don't think that I would have kept Ant, from playing B-Back. I liked him there. I just wish there would have been more of the option plays we ran with dwyer to get him out in space. Not to mention he probably gave us an extra 75% of production out of the position than a replacement, whereas we may have gotten a 30% increase in production with him at A-Back.

 

[WracerX]

Ant was a hard runner. He hit the holes much harder than our b backs of the past. If the back was going to get the ball 34.5% of the time this year, I would much rather Ant get the carries than any of our other backs.

In the second half of the year AA hit the hole hard. In the first half he didn't. Coach called him out for this mid season. It is part of learning the system. If AA had an extra year, he would have blown up some rushing records. He had to be averaging 150 ypg against the tough part of our schedule.

 

[declinometer]

yes and that's what CPJ said after JD left.

"I would be shocked if the B-Back position does not get us 1000 yards next year."

I think he would say the same every year.

For Example:

Navy: Teich + Vince Murray (lost starting job to Teich)= 382+825=1,207 yards
Air Force: Tew + Walker (filled in while Tew broke leg)= 599+470=1,069 yards
Army: Hassin= 1,013 yards

However I don't think that I would have kept Ant, from playing B-Back. I liked him there. I just wish there would have been more of the option plays we ran with dwyer to get him out in space. Not to mention he probably gave us an extra 75% of production out of the position than a replacement, whereas we may have gotten a 30% increase in production with him at A-Back.

thanks for the cpj quote regarding the b-back. as far as the percentages i have to disagree. the 30% increase in production would be him carrying the ball. his blocking on the corner would have accounted for another 30% increase and all of the outside production would have meant more attention from the defense thus lowering aa + 75% down to a + 20% from the b-back position.

 

[JOJATK]

Not surprised. Roddy and Orwin accounted for three turnovers against Ugag.

Actually only 2. Tevin had the other fumble and threw one INT and I think those were our 4 turnovers. We did put the ball on the ground 4 times and lost 3 (Orwin, Roddy, Tevin).

But to the point, I also wish our A-backs had been more involved this year.

 

[lonestarjacket]

yes and that's what CPJ said after JD left.

"I would be shocked if the B-Back position does not get us 1000 yards next year."

I think he would say the same every year.

For Example:

Navy: Teich + Vince Murray (lost starting job to Teich)= 382+825=1,207 yards
Air Force: Tew + Walker (filled in while Tew broke leg)= 599+470=1,069 yards
Army: Hassin= 1,013 yards

However I don't think that I would have kept Ant, from playing B-Back. I liked him there. I just wish there would have been more of the option plays we ran with dwyer to get him out in space. Not to mention he probably gave us an extra 75% of production out of the position than a replacement, whereas we may have gotten a 30% increase in production with him at A-Back.

But he said that KNOWING WHO WOULD BE PLAYING AT B-BACK. He did NOT say, whomever I put there will get 1000 yards regardless of talent.

Why are people on here using CPJ's words as an expert to second-guess CPJ's decision on who to play at what position?

The B-Back will usually get 1000 yards (or much better) in this offense, because he routinely puts the best power back in that position because it is the featured RB in his offense.

Someone posted the consistency over years between the B-back, A-back, and QB percentage of runs. That is not by accident and the higher number of touches for B-backs is why we will always put our best back in that position. The B-back is the featured back.

 

[alpha]

Actually only 2. Tevin had the other fumble and threw one INT and I think those were our 4 turnovers. We did put the ball on the ground 4 times and lost 3 (Orwin, Roddy, Tevin).

But to the point, I also wish our A-backs had been more involved this year.

I don't know why they attributed that last fumble (which lead to a ugag defensive TD) to Tevin. If I remember correctly, Tevin pitched the ball to Roddy and the ball hit Roddy's hands then lost the ball while getting hit. My thing about this is if the pitch hits your hands, the QB did as much as he could to get the ball to you. If the ball hits your hands and you lose it, it's your fault.

Found the video. It's pretty clear to me that Roddy took his eyes off the ball before he caught it.

[y]-KDrPUcUsFY[/y]

 

[JOJATK]

I don't know why they attributed that last fumble (which lead to a ugag defensive TD) to Tevin. If I remember correctly, Tevin pitched the ball to Roddy and the ball hit Roddy's hands then lost the ball while getting hit. My thing about this is if the pitch hits your hands, the QB did as much as he could to get the ball to you. If the ball hits your hands and you lose it, it's your fault.

Found the video. It's pretty clear to me that Roddy took his eyes off the ball before he caught it.

[y]-KDrPUcUsFY[/y]

They attribute it to Tevin because Roddy never had possession. If I were running the stats I also would have given that one to Tevin because it wasn't a very good pitch... catchable, yes, but it was thrown at Roddy's head right as Roddy was about to get hit. I understand where you're coming from but Roddy never had a chance at that ball. But that's just my opinion.

 

[alpha]

If I were running the stats I also would have given that one to Tevin because it wasn't a very good pitch... catchable

I could also argue that the pitch was ill-advised but I wouldn't say the ball was badly pitched. Like you said, it was catchable. If it's a catchable pitch, it's the a-back's job to catch it.

This is exactly why I disagreed with the OP. Our a-backs need to take more responsibility and step up even a little bit for the team. I'm sick of the QB being blamed for a pitch that hits the pitchman's hands. Is it wrong for the QB to give them the ball and ask them make the play? Even if they are put into a tight spot and need to make the play by themselves? Until someone steps up, I don't see why we need to get the ball to the a-backs more.

 

[Deadpool]

I could also argue that the pitch was ill-advised but I wouldn't say the ball was badly pitched. Like you said, it was catchable. If it's a catchable pitch, it's the a-back's job to catch it.

In that particular case though, Roddy honestly had no chance. By the time the ball hit him (and it was pitched fairly high, was going straight for his face), he was being hit. That particular instance isn't a good example of our A-Backs having bricks for hands this year, but they do need to improve some for next year.

 

[GTCrew4b]

*snip*

I agree with all your points. But I still think we could've put Jones, Smith, hell even a platoon between Cox and Lyons and gotten 1000 yards out of the B-Back position.

Obviously if you put someone who's slow and small there you won't get 1000 yards. But you don't so that's like a hypothesis contrary to fact. You're going to put your best running back at the B-Back position, and he's going to get his yards, but at the same time I'm just pointing out that even though it is a skill position, players who aren't necessarily as skilled as Anthony Allen are still going over 1000 yards and averaging about 5 yards/carry for other teams that run a similar offense to ours.

I said I liked Anthony Allen at the B-Back, I'm not using his words to second guess him for playing him there. I'm using his words to show his confidence in the B-Back position giving him 1,000 yards. I don't think it's ever not gotten him 1,000 yards...

 

[JOJATK]

In that particular case though, Roddy honestly had no chance. By the time the ball hit him (and it was pitched fairly high, was going straight for his face), he was being hit. That particular instance isn't a good example of our A-Backs having bricks for hands this year, but they do need to improve some for next year.

I have to agree with Deadpool, here. When I said the pitch was catchable I should have said it this way: "catchable". As in... it was physically possible to catch the pitch but it would have been very difficult to do so because not only was it a poorly pitched ball, going into his face, but it was going into his face just before a UGA player was ALSO going into his face. I like Tevin and am not trying to heap more blame on him than necessary but in this case he set up Roddy for failure. Nothing good was going to come out of that pitch. At best Roddy was going to catch it and get creamed for a loss of yards.

Deadpool has it right. Our a-backs could use some improvement in catching the pitches (hey, I could use some improvement in my job performance, too) but this really isn't a good example with which to make that case.

 

[alpha]

Deadpool has it right. Our a-backs could use significant improvement in catching the pitches and ball protection...

Fixed.

If this was one of the rare cases of an a-back fumbling a pitch then it would be hard for me to put most of the blame on them. In such cases, I'd think the a-back did the best he could but still couldn't come up with the ball. However, we have all seen our a-backs fumble even the most perfectly placed pitches (ugh, too many times) this past season. So, to me, it's futile to talk about how bad the pitch was because chances are, Roddy would have fumbled that ball anyway.

I'll admit here that I'm not at all being objective about our a-backs. In my mind, the a-backs have completely underwhelmed this past season and they are the #1 reason why we just finished our first losing season in sixteen years and that really is putting it mildly. I would absolutely love to see just one of them step up and become even remotely dependable to the team.

</rant>

 

[Ish]

"get the ball to the a-backs" is a hollow point. we run the option. some other plays here and there, but largely the option. the ball goes where the defense dictates it should go.

 

[slugboy]

Fixed.

If this was one of the rare cases of an a-back fumbling a pitch then it would be hard for me to put most of the blame on them. In such cases, I'd think the a-back did the best he could but still couldn't come up with the ball. However, we have all seen our a-backs fumble even the most perfectly placed pitches (ugh, too many times) this past season. So, to me, it's futile to talk about how bad the pitch was because chances are, Roddy would have fumbled that ball anyway.

I'll admit here that I'm not at all being objective about our a-backs. In my mind, the a-backs have completely underwhelmed this past season and they are the #1 reason why we just finished our first losing season in sixteen years and that really is putting it mildly. I would absolutely love to see just one of them step up and become even remotely dependable to the team.

</rant>

Somewhere, there's a copy of--oh, heck,it's here->Paul Johnson's GSU Playbook. Go to pages 22 and beyond. The pitch was covered, and it was Tevin's job NOT TO PITCH THE BALL. It was Tevin's job to EAT THE BALL AND SAVE THE TURNOVER.

Yes, our A-Backs fumbled the ball this year, but a bunch--I mean a bunch--of our turnovers were bad QB decisions by Tevin Washington and Joshua Nesbitt. I remember one basketball layup by Nesbitt this year. Some bad decisions are inevitable, but they should generally pick the one that doesn't put the ball on the turf. Yes, there's "shared responsibility", but that play that is an absolute "take a 3 or 4 yard loss decision by the QB. Most of the playbook is about preventing turnovers.

FWIW, medium range passing is in that playbook--those have been lightly used pages for us though.

 

[lonestarjacket]

I have to agree with Deadpool, here. When I said the pitch was catchable I should have said it this way: "catchable". As in... it was physically possible to catch the pitch but it would have been very difficult to do so because not only was it a poorly pitched ball, going into his face, but it was going into his face just before a UGA player was ALSO going into his face. I like Tevin and am not trying to heap more blame on him than necessary but in this case he set up Roddy for failure. Nothing good was going to come out of that pitch. At best Roddy was going to catch it and get creamed for a loss of yards.

Arguably Tevin shouldn't have pitched it. But given that he did I credit Roddy for the fumble despite the fact he was going to get hit. He reacted, understandably, to the impending hit. But he was going to get hit whether he caught the ball or not, so he should be able to focus and catch it before worrying about the hit. (I think it was Cris Collingsworth who made that observation about receivers who get alligator arms when they see a hit coming. He said you are going to get hit anyway, so you might as well make the catch and yell at the QB in the huddle.)

But yes, there were worse cases of A-backs fumbling pitches when a hit was not imminent. And there was a case of an A-back fumbling a pitch and turning to look at it on the ground for a second as well.:banghead:

 

[lonestarjacket]

I agree with all your points. But I still think we could've put Jones, Smith, hell even a platoon between Cox and Lyons and gotten 1000 yards out of the B-Back position.

Obviously if you put someone who's slow and small there you won't get 1000 yards. But you don't so that's like a hypothesis contrary to fact. You're going to put your best running back at the B-Back position, and he's going to get his yards, but at the same time I'm just pointing out that even though it is a skill position, players who aren't necessarily as skilled as Anthony Allen are still going over 1000 yards and averaging about 5 yards/carry for other teams that run a similar offense to ours.

I said I liked Anthony Allen at the B-Back, I'm not using his words to second guess him for playing him there. I'm using his words to show his confidence in the B-Back position giving him 1,000 yards. I don't think it's ever not gotten him 1,000 yards...

Got it. But CPJ NEVER said (or meant to imply IMO) that "the B-back spot will gain 1000 yards irrespective of whom I choose to play there."

The high level of talent of the player he always chooses to put at the B-back position is part of the equation of his confidence in its production. Further, the relative threat of the back who gets the lion's share of the touches will directly impact how effective the A-backs and QB will be. Put a plodder in at B-back and the opportunities for big plays on the outside will dry up.

Bottom line: CPJ knows the offense better than anyone on this board (including the condescending noob who implied he knew it better because he watched it at GSU). And CPJ decided the best place for AA to maximize total production from all positions was B-back.

 

[alpha]

Somewhere, there's a copy of--oh, heck,it's here->Paul Johnson's GSU Playbook. Go to pages 22 and beyond. The pitch was covered, and it was Tevin's job NOT TO PITCH THE BALL. It was Tevin's job to EAT THE BALL AND SAVE THE TURNOVER.

Does the playbook instruct the a-backs to fumble pitches that aren't perfect?

It was Tevin's job not to pitch as it was Roddy's job to catch the pitch especially given that the ball hit his hands. Just because Tevin made a bad decision doesn't diminish Roddy's responsibility.

 

[slugboy]

I don't know who would argue he should pitch it. Tevin had a check--if the defender is covering the pitch man, don't pitch or you'll get a fumble. It looks like the guy who wrote that playbook would credit Tevin for the fumble. The decision isn't "pitch if I'm covered at QB", it's "only pitch if he isn't covered at A-back".

Arguably Tevin shouldn't have pitched it. But given that he did I credit Roddy for the fumble despite the fact he was going to get hit. He reacted, understandably, to the impending hit. But he was going to get hit whether he caught the ball or not, so he should be able to focus and catch it before worrying about the hit. (I think it was Cris Collingsworth who made that observation about receivers who get alligator arms when they see a hit coming. He said you are going to get hit anyway, so you might as well make the catch and yell at the QB in the huddle.)

But yes, there were worse cases of A-backs fumbling pitches when a hit was not imminent. And there was a case of an A-back fumbling a pitch and turning to look at it on the ground for a second as well.:banghead:

 

[slugboy]

Does the playbook instruct the a-backs to fumble pitches that aren't perfect?

It was Tevin's job not to pitch as it was Roddy's job to catch the pitch especially given that the ball hit his hands. Just because Tevin made a bad decision doesn't diminish Roddy's responsibility.

I can't believe we watched the same clip. I'm hard pressed to think of anyone who catches that pitch or holds onto it at any level of football. Chris Collinsworth's quote or not. The only reason that pitch wasn't intercepted was because the defender elected to hit and a different defender picked it up. What was Roddy supposed to do--stop all momentum without sliding, turn and catch the pitch?