Good Clean Program or Great Dirty Program?

Clean program or Dirty Program + 2 wins

  • Clean Program averaging 7 wins / season

    Votes: 63 62.4%

  • Dirty Program averaging 9 wins / season

    Votes: 38 37.6%
  • Total voters
    101
Why do we have to choose? Can't we just be who we are and let the chips fall where they may. Other schools have an identity crises- we don't - we know who we are and we know how things are done the Georgia Tech way.

I think we can do better and stay within our self-imposed standards. But the minute we abandon our standards are when we become everybody else. And when I get off the bus.

2014 was special because we beat everybody else our way.
 
Your point is that GT traditionally does more with less. The counter to that is maybe GT could do better with better than less.
 
I'm not convinced we aren't already dirty. We severely bend admission standards to let football players in, then we funnel them to a few majors with easier classes. I'd bet if you counted the minutes played by our football players, less than 5% is played by future engineering graduates. And we are an engineering school. Are the classes that most football players take actually educating them? Preparing them for "going pro in something other than sports?"

I would rather have football than no football though, and it seems the only way to have a competitive football team is to be dirty. I think it's good we minimize our unethicality. We should push for the rest of football to be more ethical so we can be less dirty, rather than settling for being better than the worst (UGA).
 
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gtzulu said:
I'm not convinced we aren't already dirty. We severely bend admission standards to let football players in, then we funnel them to a few majors with easier classes. I'd bet if you counted the minutes played by our football players, less than 5% is played by future engineering graduates. And we are an engineering school. Are the classes that most football players take actually educating them? Preparing them for "going pro in something other than sports?"

I would rather have football than no football though, and it seems the only way to have a competitive football team is to be dirty. I think it's good we minimize our unethicality. We should push for the rest of football to be more ethical so we can be less dirty, rather than settling for being better than the worst (UGA).
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Yes, a GT management degree is actually useful in getting a job. We lost a guy a few years back to Microsoft.

There are very few GT majors that are completely worthless in the real world. Maybe just history of technology, and that is most likely a precursor degree to patent law.
 
KrazieJacket said:
I'm pretty sure players have been run off by most every recent coach. We know Oleary did, have had many leave under Johnson for no obvious reason.
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I'm talking specifically about running guys off for not being good football players. Running guys off for smoking pot or partying too much, or otherwise being detrimental to the team is different.
 
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It is impossible today to have a 'clean' program and win more than two games.
 
WracerX said:
There are very few GT majors that are completely worthless in the real world. Maybe just history of technology, and that is most likely a precursor degree to patent law.
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GT HTS is the single largest hiring pool for CNN.com.

I don't think any Tech degrees are precursors to applying to job descriptions of "a college degree preferred" unlike at other places (Physical Education majors, Exercise Science majors, Sociology majors, African American Studies majors, Family Studies majors, General Studies majors, etc)
 
I'll be honest. Just to add some perspective: I was raised a GT fan (dad, uncle, grandfather went there) and have been diehard since I was about 8. I live a few hours away, but I've only missed like 5 homes games since I was in elementary school during the O'Leary years.

If Georgia Tech became an SEC-style program that pretty much openly cheats, has a team that is full of literal criminals, and unethically oversigns and pulls scholarships, I would renounce my fanhood. It's probably weird that I'm self-righteous about a school that I didn't even go to, but I like cheering for Georgia Tech because I identify with them and like what they represent. If they no longer represented that, it wouldn't be the same.

Flame away, but my answer to this question is pretty straightforward.
 
KrazieJacket said:
I'm pretty sure players have been run off by most every recent coach. We know Oleary did, have had many leave under Johnson for no obvious reason.
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And we've had even more kids who stuck around contributing nothing other than taking up a scholly. Explain that.
 
johncu said:
I'll be honest. Just to add some perspective: I was raised a GT fan (dad, uncle, grandfather went there) and have been diehard since I was about 8. I live a few hours away, but I've only missed like 5 homes games since I was in elementary school during the O'Leary years.

If Georgia Tech became an SEC-style program that pretty much openly cheats, has a team that is full of literal criminals, and unethically oversigns and pulls scholarships, I would renounce my fanhood. It's probably weird that I'm self-righteous about a school that I didn't even go to, but I like cheering for Georgia Tech because I identify with them and like what they represent. If they no longer represented that, it wouldn't be the same.

Flame away, but my answer to this question is pretty straightforward.
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I agree 100%.
 
gtzulu said:
I'm not convinced we aren't already dirty. We severely bend admission standards to let football players in, then we funnel them to a few majors with easier classes. I'd bet if you counted the minutes played by our football players, less than 5% is played by future engineering graduates. And we are an engineering school. Are the classes that most football players take actually educating them? Preparing them for "going pro in something other than sports?"
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This post is pretty much full retart.

Look, this isn't some either/or scenario, so the question is kind of stupid. No matter how "dirty" we ever became or even tried to be, unless there were some really serious fundamental changes to the entire Institute, we will never be a factory. Ever.

That said, you don't need to be a factory to be successful in FBS football. Not at all. There are lots of factories who haven't come close to sniffing an MNC.

Asking for a few more special admits (which is what the discussion always turns to for most GT fans) doesn't mean we are going to get "dirty".

Georgia Tech can, and should be, a consistent 8-9 win program. This sets you up for some 10-12 win seasons and also sets you up for some 5-7 win seasons too.

Overt and blatant running off kids on scholarship is unethical. Period. Find one example of a kid who wanted to stay at GT but was told he had to leave. And telling a kid they probably won't play is not forcing them to leave.
 
GT flunkout said:
No matter how "dirty" we ever became or even tried to be, unless there were some really serious fundamental changes to the entire Institute, we will never be a factory.
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You guys overestimate the "evil Hillnerds". CPJ is allowed more academic exceptions in admissions than he accepts in a given year. Calculus is no longer required in several majors ("Survey of Calculus" is not Calculus by a long shot).

The only legitimate gripe people have is that the Hill has not created majors specifically for athletes.
 
If by dirty you mean we get Johnny Manzeils, Jameis Winstons and Cam Newtons, then I'd rather be a clean program.

I don't want the face of our program to be trash.
 
gtphd said:
You guys overestimate the "evil Hillnerds". CPJ is allowed more academic exceptions in admissions than he accepts in a given year. Calculus is no longer required in several majors ("Survey of Calculus" is not Calculus by a long shot).

The only legitimate gripe people have is that the Hill has not created majors specifically for athletes.
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It's also not the Math 101 that football players at most schools take, where they learn how to draw graphs and solve basic algebraic equations.

Our guys aren't rocket scientists (most of them anyway), but let's not buy into the UGA crap that claims that school isn't any harder at GT than any other school. I studied engineering at Clemson, which was predictably brutal, but my roommates were Sociology majors in classes full of football players that were absurdly easy. I remember struggling with differential equations one night while my roommate was doing his Math 101 homework plotting points and drawing lines of best fit.
 
GT flunkout said:
Overt and blatant running off kids on scholarship is unethical. Period. Find one example of a kid who wanted to stay at GT but was told he had to leave. And telling a kid they probably won't play is not forcing them to leave.
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That is the rub. We could improve recruiting without special admits by running guys off. Our current philosophy is probably a 2-3 scholly detriment each year. What penalty did Miami get for boats and hos? Fewer than 15 scholly over 5 years.
 
many schools need their sports to be exceptional to even be talked about in a national forum. some schools are good schools. Georgia Tech is in the latter, better category.

we are a school, with decent sports; not a sports team with a decent school
only a dumbass would confuse the two
 
I'd rather our football program win games, but the Tech fanbase really doesn't have the stomach for it. I'm not even talking about FSU style covering up rape and stuff, just mundane activities like oversigning, bag men, manipulating the 'full cost of enrollment' stipend, and aggressively cutting people from the roster. Even if we tried to bend the rules, we have too many people who would get in the way.
 
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