how a parent of a current SA@Tech feels about academics
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MsTechAnalysis
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She's right in all that she states and said what I've been saying all along with regard to coaches - "their livelihood depends on them being on top of academics" they need to field a team.
Her mention of O'Leary and his processes establish the point emphatically - especially here!
Her mention of O'Leary and his processes establish the point emphatically - especially here!
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ahsoisee,
Your really reading a lot into BuzzMom65's comments.
BuzzMom65's son is an offensive lineman. Mac was his position coach that is the only reason his name came up.
Under O'Leary, players had a curfew. Position coaches were responsible for making sure they were in bed on time. These bed checks had nothing to do with the academic system. Gailey could have continued them if he had wanted to do so.
People's remarks might be equal in your world, but I'll put more weight in remarks of someone who has greater knowledge and experience with the way things have / are being run. And I'll put more weight in BuzzMom65's comments than some faceless font on the internet.
You say,"Well duh!" But I believe the point was that no one was checking to see if people were going to class and that there were no consequences for not going as a result. Remember these comments were not directed at the coaching staff per se, but at the program in general. Someone was supposed to be responsible for it.
What really pisses me off is the way you go after BuzzMom65 and our other SA's parents for being bad parents. Who the hell do you think you are? Here we have a parent who sent their child all the way across the country from Minnesota to Georgia Tech. Who most likely chose to send their child to Georgia Tech because they liked the fact that we care about academic integrity and take a hands on approach to making sure our SA's go to class and act the way they are supposed to do.
I have met number of our SA's parents and the two consistent things they cite for wanting their child to go to Tech are that they wanted them to get a good education and they trusted the coaching staff would make sure they were doing what they were supposed to do. In many cases item #2 was what set us apart from the FSUs, Auburns, and UGAs of the world.
ahsoisee, if you want to be paranoid and read into every critism that it's anti-Gailey, fine. But do not go after our SA's parents. I hope you did not mean it that way, but it definitely came across that way.
Your really reading a lot into BuzzMom65's comments.
BuzzMom65's son is an offensive lineman. Mac was his position coach that is the only reason his name came up.
Under O'Leary, players had a curfew. Position coaches were responsible for making sure they were in bed on time. These bed checks had nothing to do with the academic system. Gailey could have continued them if he had wanted to do so.
People's remarks might be equal in your world, but I'll put more weight in remarks of someone who has greater knowledge and experience with the way things have / are being run. And I'll put more weight in BuzzMom65's comments than some faceless font on the internet.
You say,"Well duh!" But I believe the point was that no one was checking to see if people were going to class and that there were no consequences for not going as a result. Remember these comments were not directed at the coaching staff per se, but at the program in general. Someone was supposed to be responsible for it.
What really pisses me off is the way you go after BuzzMom65 and our other SA's parents for being bad parents. Who the hell do you think you are? Here we have a parent who sent their child all the way across the country from Minnesota to Georgia Tech. Who most likely chose to send their child to Georgia Tech because they liked the fact that we care about academic integrity and take a hands on approach to making sure our SA's go to class and act the way they are supposed to do.
I have met number of our SA's parents and the two consistent things they cite for wanting their child to go to Tech are that they wanted them to get a good education and they trusted the coaching staff would make sure they were doing what they were supposed to do. In many cases item #2 was what set us apart from the FSUs, Auburns, and UGAs of the world.
ahsoisee, if you want to be paranoid and read into every critism that it's anti-Gailey, fine. But do not go after our SA's parents. I hope you did not mean it that way, but it definitely came across that way.
ahso .. that was pretty harsh. buzzmom65 is really cool. she isn't a part of the lynch mob.
let's not resort to lynching the lynch mob. i've been guilty of this as well. we don't like the lynching right .. we'd be hypocrites if we basically go about "lynching" the lynch mob.
"even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat", smartass wiseguy.
let's not resort to lynching the lynch mob. i've been guilty of this as well. we don't like the lynching right .. we'd be hypocrites if we basically go about "lynching" the lynch mob.
"even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat", smartass wiseguy.
MsTechAnalysis
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There is no lynch mob here - there are only those who care about what's going on and have differences of opinion - we all care in all these differing opinions.
There are a lot of people unhappy - but nobody falls into a 'lynch mob' category or definition!
There are a lot of people unhappy - but nobody falls into a 'lynch mob' category or definition!
71YellowJacket
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Ahsoisee,
I think you stepped into something; better clean those shoes before your wife catches you walking on the kitchen floor..
For those of you not able to access the Hive (tsk, tsk, tsk), here is my response to Buzzmom65:
agree with your post, thanks for a parent's insight.
If I were responsible for coaching a team in Div 1A, I would probably be doing bed checks, study hall checks, class attendance checks. That just makes sense. If I were also in charge of academics, I would do everything I could to see my players remained eligible (not necessarily graduate).
I don't believe the system we had under Coach O’Leary would have worked long term. Too many Joe Burns issues would have flared up (IIRC we lost 35 during Coach O'Leary's tenure), causing parents and athletics to think twice before committing to a school where too many kids don't get a degree. So a division of responsibilities with academics not reporting to the head coach (but where the coach still ensures the kids are where they should be, doing what's necessary) also makes sense too me.
So what went wrong?
You cannot design a plan that will overcome dishonesty, negligence, or incompetence. We have suffered thru at least one of those conditions this past year.
I think you stepped into something; better clean those shoes before your wife catches you walking on the kitchen floor..
For those of you not able to access the Hive (tsk, tsk, tsk), here is my response to Buzzmom65:
agree with your post, thanks for a parent's insight.
If I were responsible for coaching a team in Div 1A, I would probably be doing bed checks, study hall checks, class attendance checks. That just makes sense. If I were also in charge of academics, I would do everything I could to see my players remained eligible (not necessarily graduate).
I don't believe the system we had under Coach O’Leary would have worked long term. Too many Joe Burns issues would have flared up (IIRC we lost 35 during Coach O'Leary's tenure), causing parents and athletics to think twice before committing to a school where too many kids don't get a degree. So a division of responsibilities with academics not reporting to the head coach (but where the coach still ensures the kids are where they should be, doing what's necessary) also makes sense too me.
So what went wrong?
You cannot design a plan that will overcome dishonesty, negligence, or incompetence. We have suffered thru at least one of those conditions this past year.
71YellowJacket
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By the By, MsTechAnalysis you are dead on.
When a college persuades a young person to leave home and invest their energy and athletic talent for 4 years in return for a college education, any parent would want some assurance the kids, despite the demands of sports, would have a reasonable shot at getting that education.
Frankly, I wish there was a way we could guarantee every Tech SA if they met the scholarship requirements, whether they lettered or not, we would reach in the schools pockets when their eligibility was over, and pay for their education as long as it took them to get their degree.
When a college persuades a young person to leave home and invest their energy and athletic talent for 4 years in return for a college education, any parent would want some assurance the kids, despite the demands of sports, would have a reasonable shot at getting that education.
Frankly, I wish there was a way we could guarantee every Tech SA if they met the scholarship requirements, whether they lettered or not, we would reach in the schools pockets when their eligibility was over, and pay for their education as long as it took them to get their degree.
bellyseries
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Actually, I'm out to get Beebad and Father Wasp.
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ahsoisee,
What I am saying is that you took a fairly harmless post that does not mention Chan Gailey and portrayed it as some sort of direct assault on him. Maybe I am wrong here, but I think most people would be hard pressed to come up with some of your comments after reading BuzzMom65's post unless they were already as hyper-sensitive to the issue as you seem to be.
What I am saying is that you took a fairly harmless post that does not mention Chan Gailey and portrayed it as some sort of direct assault on him. Maybe I am wrong here, but I think most people would be hard pressed to come up with some of your comments after reading BuzzMom65's post unless they were already as hyper-sensitive to the issue as you seem to be.
71YellowJacket
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Actually, I'm out to get Beebad and Father Wasp.
MsTechAnalysis
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Using me for your remarks is going way too far here!! What a joke!! You've done this before and it didn't take me or any response I made for that too happen. You've lambasted players as well! I don't come here for you to respond to me - what a poor excuse for cutting someone down!Originally posted by ahsoisee:
Cbre, it was more a reaction to the "Me Too" response of MsTA goading me to create the following dissertation.
It was the same old stuff, so I posted the same old stuff.
People here got on your case and you ARE DEFLECTING TO ME as the reason - talk about stretching here!! Take it like a man and say you were wrong!
I was not wrong. I did what I intentionally set out to do once I read your post of the same old stuff.
I have made it perfectly clear, when someone wants to bring O'Leary back into the picture as a comparison to try and lynch the present coach, I will bring back some of the same old arguments to show how inerrant the comparisons are.
Don't expect anything different.
I will not apologise for the remark about parents not knowing the status of their children's grades and how they are progressing in their studies.
I am sure you realize I did not lay all the blame on the parents, but I did state they have a partial interest in the progress of the kid as the coaches, tutors, teachers, etc. Am I wrong?
It makes no difference if they are across the country, they still talk to the student. If they think there is a problem with his grades, they should call and talk with the coach or at least send him a letter.
A parent should believe in their children, but should never take anything 100% of the reasons a child gives them. That is what a parent is all about is being the adult and checking into situations.
So, no, I would not blame it all on the parents, but, you bet, I lay partial blame on them. Now, they might not like what I say, and many other parents may not like it, but it does not mean it is not true.
I have made it perfectly clear, when someone wants to bring O'Leary back into the picture as a comparison to try and lynch the present coach, I will bring back some of the same old arguments to show how inerrant the comparisons are.
Don't expect anything different.
I will not apologise for the remark about parents not knowing the status of their children's grades and how they are progressing in their studies.
I am sure you realize I did not lay all the blame on the parents, but I did state they have a partial interest in the progress of the kid as the coaches, tutors, teachers, etc. Am I wrong?
It makes no difference if they are across the country, they still talk to the student. If they think there is a problem with his grades, they should call and talk with the coach or at least send him a letter.
A parent should believe in their children, but should never take anything 100% of the reasons a child gives them. That is what a parent is all about is being the adult and checking into situations.
So, no, I would not blame it all on the parents, but, you bet, I lay partial blame on them. Now, they might not like what I say, and many other parents may not like it, but it does not mean it is not true.
MsTechAnalysis
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">You are using me as to why you answered this mother's comments this way - I have a problem with that! You and I don't agree - that's one thing, but say it like it is - you directed your comments to her statements and people here think you are wrong in doing that.Originally posted by ahsoisee:
I was not wrong. I did what I intentionally set out to do once I read your post of the same old stuff.
I have made it perfectly clear, when someone wants to bring O'Leary back into the picture as a comparison to try and lynch the present coach, I will bring back some of the same old arguments to show how inerrant the comparisons are.
Don't expect anything different.
I will not apologise for the remark about parents not knowing the status of their children's grades and how they are progressing in their studies.
I am sure you realize I did not lay all the blame on the parents, but I did state they have a partial interest in the progress of the kid as the coaches, tutors, teachers, etc. Am I wrong?
It makes no difference if they are across the country, they still talk to the student. If they think there is a problem with his grades, they should call and talk with the coach or at least send him a letter.
A parent should believe in their children, but should never take anything 100% of the reasons a child gives them. That is what a parent is all about is being the adult and checking into situations.
So, no, I would not blame it all on the parents, but, you bet, I lay partial blame on them. Now, they might not like what I say, and many other parents may not like it, but it does not mean it is not true.
As far as goading - you give yourself to much credit to think that all my statements here are made so that you are goaded into a response, quite the opposite - I look forward to what others have to say - even if we don't agree.
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ahsoisee,
That was such a weak response. Your blaming MsTechAnalysis for your comments when all she basically said was,"Yes, I agree with this post" is silly. Describing your original post as a "reaction" almost sounded like an apology for something said in the spur of the moment, but your subsequent post makes it clear you really meant it.
Your last post makes it sound like you simply stated that parents, coaches, and academic advisors all share responsibilty. You went well beyond this stance. After breifly mentioning "shared responsibility" rather than discussing what should be done to fix the problems within the program, you immediately dive into blaming the parents for our current situation. I got news for you these students have had the same parents no matter who the head coach was or what academic support system was in place. It is rather far-fethced, unnecessary, and offensive to place blame in that direction and if that is what you "intentionally set out to do" then you have succeeded.
That was such a weak response. Your blaming MsTechAnalysis for your comments when all she basically said was,"Yes, I agree with this post" is silly. Describing your original post as a "reaction" almost sounded like an apology for something said in the spur of the moment, but your subsequent post makes it clear you really meant it.
Your last post makes it sound like you simply stated that parents, coaches, and academic advisors all share responsibilty. You went well beyond this stance. After breifly mentioning "shared responsibility" rather than discussing what should be done to fix the problems within the program, you immediately dive into blaming the parents for our current situation. I got news for you these students have had the same parents no matter who the head coach was or what academic support system was in place. It is rather far-fethced, unnecessary, and offensive to place blame in that direction and if that is what you "intentionally set out to do" then you have succeeded.
Cbre, you are absolutely right, I did set out to show that the parents had a share of the blame in noone knowing they were failing.
All concerned share in the blame. The highest blame goes to the students if they skipped classes and did not do their work. The next priority of blame would come to those in charge of the tutoring process (Tutoring Staff) for not taking a proactive position in the process.
I would say the next priority would be Braine's for removing the coaches from the process.
It is hard to assess the coach's responsibility in the now defunct new system. If they were kept in the dark by the students, by the tutoring staff, and no feedback from the families or anyone else, it is hard to see how they would know. However, they could be partially responsible.
Finally, even though the parents are remote, the childs education and welfare should be their number one priority. If they knew he was failing and were concerned, they should have called or notified the coach for consultation.
Yes, I said exactly what I meant to say. I don't know how long you have been on the board. I don't remember seeing your handle on here much. It is possible you have stumbled onto a long protracted debate that has been going on for months, and you have no idea of what you are talking about.
All concerned share in the blame. The highest blame goes to the students if they skipped classes and did not do their work. The next priority of blame would come to those in charge of the tutoring process (Tutoring Staff) for not taking a proactive position in the process.
I would say the next priority would be Braine's for removing the coaches from the process.
It is hard to assess the coach's responsibility in the now defunct new system. If they were kept in the dark by the students, by the tutoring staff, and no feedback from the families or anyone else, it is hard to see how they would know. However, they could be partially responsible.
Finally, even though the parents are remote, the childs education and welfare should be their number one priority. If they knew he was failing and were concerned, they should have called or notified the coach for consultation.
Yes, I said exactly what I meant to say. I don't know how long you have been on the board. I don't remember seeing your handle on here much. It is possible you have stumbled onto a long protracted debate that has been going on for months, and you have no idea of what you are talking about.
This article does not emphasize the fact the system changed from O'Leary to Gailey. The fact there was a change has been well documented.
Just because "Mac" made bed checks does not mean the present coaches are not aware of the present SAs comings and goings.
Just because "Mac" kept up with the kids class routines and grades does not mean he could do the same after the system changed when O'Leary left.
I see the key word to this parent's article as "Mac", which immediately sets my mind to biased innuendos.
When a coach comes in and is told to keep his hands off the academic system, he does not really know all that means. It has also been documented that Braine has rectified the problem since the failure.
Both the changing of the system and the follow-up rectification of the problem proves the systems were not the same for O'Leary and Gailey.
So, it is a moot point.
The real point is how things will go in the future in this respect. It may be even to late for the next quarter since the problems in the system have just been corrected.
I imagine there is the possibility of more failures in the near future, but we should see much less after that.
Another thing that I see taken out of context of its importance is the remark of a parent as opposed to anyone else's remark. For a parent to make a remark such as the one just shown has no more credibility than someone else making the same statement.
Just because a parent makes a remark does not mean that parent has all the information. In fact all she said was someone needs to stay behind the players to make sure they are attending class. I say, "well Duh!"
That is obvious, but maybe Gailey and his staff were taken out of that loop, and the responsibility was given to Carole Moore and the tutoring staff. If Gailey was told hands off, the parent, the pupil, and the tutoring staff were at fault.
The parent is as much at fault as anyone else. it is incomprehensible to me that a parent is not close enough to his child to know if he is trying, if he is passing or failing, if he is skipping classes. Where is this parent's responsibility in this situation?
This is the flip side to a naive answer by the parent and those who are still looking for some reason to lynch Gailey.
Just because "Mac" made bed checks does not mean the present coaches are not aware of the present SAs comings and goings.
Just because "Mac" kept up with the kids class routines and grades does not mean he could do the same after the system changed when O'Leary left.
I see the key word to this parent's article as "Mac", which immediately sets my mind to biased innuendos.
When a coach comes in and is told to keep his hands off the academic system, he does not really know all that means. It has also been documented that Braine has rectified the problem since the failure.
Both the changing of the system and the follow-up rectification of the problem proves the systems were not the same for O'Leary and Gailey.
So, it is a moot point.
The real point is how things will go in the future in this respect. It may be even to late for the next quarter since the problems in the system have just been corrected.
I imagine there is the possibility of more failures in the near future, but we should see much less after that.
Another thing that I see taken out of context of its importance is the remark of a parent as opposed to anyone else's remark. For a parent to make a remark such as the one just shown has no more credibility than someone else making the same statement.
Just because a parent makes a remark does not mean that parent has all the information. In fact all she said was someone needs to stay behind the players to make sure they are attending class. I say, "well Duh!"
That is obvious, but maybe Gailey and his staff were taken out of that loop, and the responsibility was given to Carole Moore and the tutoring staff. If Gailey was told hands off, the parent, the pupil, and the tutoring staff were at fault.
The parent is as much at fault as anyone else. it is incomprehensible to me that a parent is not close enough to his child to know if he is trying, if he is passing or failing, if he is skipping classes. Where is this parent's responsibility in this situation?
This is the flip side to a naive answer by the parent and those who are still looking for some reason to lynch Gailey.
MsTechAnalysis
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She doesn't sound NAIVE TO ME, quite the contrary. Matter-0f-fact, I give her more credibility in knowing what goes on then most - her child's academic and athletic livelihood is at stake - she's Mom and believe me we know what's going on at all times!
That word NAIVE seems to go more with this coach!
That word NAIVE seems to go more with this coach!