In 2023, what separates pro football from college football?

Buzzman72 said:
I was saying if a league like XFL does take off the allure to play, get an agent and sign deals to promote things it could be viable. 18 and playing with no school BS to put up with. idk, if you’re that elite the NFL will find you. stranger things have happened. Just my opinion though.
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No league aside from the NFL is going to be able to compete with fb factory NIL money for top recruits
 
Buzzilla said:
These differences you highlight are likely the roadmap for what's to come in college football starting with some kind of a college football players union. This might normalize the extremes and provide a better distribution for the player collective as a whole. I'm not generally a fan of unions and I usually side for individual freedom and meritocracy but the current conditions left unabated will torpedo the game in time and everyone will lose. One way or another something needs to be done, and likely the sooner the better.

An interesting take on a college football players union here: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/spo...-would-hurt-court-ruled-freedoms/65385701007/
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Eventually the average 2-3 star Average Joe cfb players who are filling out rosters but not getting NIL money are going to say hey, I am blocking and doing the dirty work for these guys making millions and I deserve a piece of that. Unionization will come from the have-nots of the sport and it might actually save cfb because it will hopefully result in contracts, salary caps and parity.
 
So here's a stupid question.... given what is now happening with NIL, etc, do some pro players (NFL, USFL, XFL, etc.) potentially still have eligibility to enroll in college and play? Undergrad? Grad? The money apparently is available in some of these places. And if they are not eligible how long before someone sues for eligibility given they didn't have access to NIL before the court ruling?
 
Buzzilla said:
So here's a stupid question.... given what is now happening with NIL, etc, do some pro players (NFL, USFL, XFL, etc.) potentially still have eligibility to enroll in college and play? Undergrad? Grad? The money apparently is available in some of these places. And if they are not eligible how long before someone sues for eligibility given they didn't have access to NIL before the court ruling?
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Eligibility for anyone starts once you enroll in college. Don't think there is anyone currently in the NFL that didn't go through college, so the only people who would potentially still have eligibility were guys who have just recently been drafted and left after their third season. Not sure any of them are wanting to go back. This is all ignoring that you are no longer eligible if you've been paid as a professional athlete in that sport, since that line is kind of blurry now.
 
"This is all ignoring that you are no longer eligible if you've been paid as a professional athlete in that sport, since that line is kind of blurry now."

That's why I'm asking. If a young player can make a few million coming back to college for 1 or 2 years and finish a degree or get a graduate degree versus playing on a practice squad in the NFL or making league minimum in the XFL, why wouldn't he go back to college? I would expect there are enough of those players out there that it could be a difference maker for programs that would be willing to get them and can afford to make the payments.

Furthermore, if I'm one of those young men and the NCAA won't let me play based on old rules of eligibility ending because of professional status, I'm getting a good lawyer.
 
College football is more like low-level professional soccer than it is to the NFL.

A bunch of mercenaries with a few goofy rules baked in to the league to make the fans root for "their" team.
 
LongforDodd said:
Don't forget...TCU beat Mich when Mich was down their RB1.
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Depth is what separate those at the top from those at the bottom. When your 'back up lines' are just are better than the other teams starting line, you talent drop off just doesn't happen when the 'star' player is out.
 
In the NFL, there's a salary cap to encourage a level playing field. There only exists a full-time coach limit in the NCAA.

In the NFL, there's a draft so that the worst teams get the best players to encourage a level playing field. No equivalent in the NCAA.

In the NFL, players are signed to contracts so it's easy to know who is on your team next season and for the program to chart a future course. In the NCAA, any player can leave at any time for any reason and you don't know what your own roster is next year and you have to constantly re-recruit your own roster to keep them there.

In the NFL, cheating can be investigated by just one team owner. If the league office is on board, the investigation has some teeth. In the NCAA, cheating is investigated by an impotent body of academics with no authority or power to subpoena. If you flagrantly cheat and lie, you'll get away with it. Bounties at Miami? No problem. Academic fraud and fake degree programs at UNC? No problem. But if you cheat even accidentally in the most benign of ways and then confess and cooperate, you'll get the book thrown at you. Make 5 minutes too much phone calls in recruiting that week and confess to it? PROBATION. LOSS OF SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 4 YEARS. POSTSEASON BAN.

In the NFL the dirty secret of the profession is you're likely going to suffer some degree of brain damage. In the NCAA the dirty secret is that you're likely going to get a worthless degree that barely qualifies you to run a Verizon store.

In the NFL, you're dealing with talented players who want to be there and have meaningful experience. In the NCAA you may have to do a near from-the-ground-up teaching job more frequently as fewer and fewer people play HS football leading to more situations that don't teach players how to play the game at a high level, like 7 on 7 football.

In the NFL, teams extort their cities for taxpayer funds to build new palatial stadium at eye watering sums which is never recovered by the taxpayers just so everybody can do it all over again in 20 years. In the NCAA teams have to pay for stadiums themselves unless they're UCONN.

In the NFL if you want to lure really good players you need a low tax state and top shelf escorts. In the NCAA if you want to lure really good players you need bag men masquerading as NIL opportunities.





It really isn't THAT hard to fix the NCAA. Total compensation caps. Total staff caps. NIL caps. You must sit out one year after transferring unless the coach you played for was fired or you graduated. The regulatory body in charge of investigation for fraud and cheating must have teeth and meaningful power. The rub is to get this environment, which I think the majority of even the P5 would support given the right structure, you need Congress to pass an anti-trust exemption. That's tough. It's been almost 30 years since Congress actually had meaningful bipartisan reform.
 
georgia_tech_swagger said:
In the NFL, there's a salary cap to encourage a level playing field. There only exists a full-time coach limit in the NCAA.

In the NFL, there's a draft so that the worst teams get the best players to encourage a level playing field. No equivalent in the NCAA.

In the NFL, players are signed to contracts so it's easy to know who is on your team next season and for the program to chart a future course. In the NCAA, any player can leave at any time for any reason and you don't know what your own roster is next year and you have to constantly re-recruit your own roster to keep them there.

In the NFL, cheating can be investigated by just one team owner. If the league office is on board, the investigation has some teeth. In the NCAA, cheating is investigated by an impotent body of academics with no authority or power to subpoena. If you flagrantly cheat and lie, you'll get away with it. Bounties at Miami? No problem. Academic fraud and fake degree programs at UNC? No problem. But if you cheat even accidentally in the most benign of ways and then confess and cooperate, you'll get the book thrown at you. Make 5 minutes too much phone calls in recruiting that week and confess to it? PROBATION. LOSS OF SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 4 YEARS. POSTSEASON BAN.

In the NFL the dirty secret of the profession is you're likely going to suffer some degree of brain damage. In the NCAA the dirty secret is that you're likely going to get a worthless degree that barely qualifies you to run a Verizon store.

In the NFL, you're dealing with talented players who want to be there and have meaningful experience. In the NCAA you may have to do a near from-the-ground-up teaching job more frequently as fewer and fewer people play HS football leading to more situations that don't teach players how to play the game at a high level, like 7 on 7 football.

In the NFL, teams extort their cities for taxpayer funds to build new palatial stadium at eye watering sums which is never recovered by the taxpayers just so everybody can do it all over again in 20 years. In the NCAA teams have to pay for stadiums themselves unless they're UCONN.

In the NFL if you want to lure really good players you need a low tax state and top shelf escorts. In the NCAA if you want to lure really good players you need bag men masquerading as NIL opportunities.





It really isn't THAT hard to fix the NCAA. Total compensation caps. Total staff caps. NIL caps. You must sit out one year after transferring unless the coach you played for was fired or you graduated. The regulatory body in charge of investigation for fraud and cheating must have teeth and meaningful power. The rub is to get this environment, which I think the majority of even the P5 would support given the right structure, you need Congress to pass an anti-trust exemption. That's tough. It's been almost 30 years since Congress actually had meaningful bipartisan reform.
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Total NIL caps per team would be really good since that would push the players that can generate a lot of NIL interest to find somewhere with cap space. Ideally, that would force the talent to spill out of the top tier programs and increase parity.
 
Vespinae said:
Total NIL caps per team would be really good since that would push the players that can generate a lot of NIL interest to find somewhere with cap space. Ideally, that would force the talent to spill out of the top tier programs and increase parity.
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I think this would just drive the payments back under the table.
 
georgia_tech_swagger said:
In the NFL, there's a salary cap to encourage a level playing field. There only exists a full-time coach limit in the NCAA.

In the NFL, there's a draft so that the worst teams get the best players to encourage a level playing field. No equivalent in the NCAA.

In the NFL, players are signed to contracts so it's easy to know who is on your team next season and for the program to chart a future course. In the NCAA, any player can leave at any time for any reason and you don't know what your own roster is next year and you have to constantly re-recruit your own roster to keep them there.

In the NFL, cheating can be investigated by just one team owner. If the league office is on board, the investigation has some teeth. In the NCAA, cheating is investigated by an impotent body of academics with no authority or power to subpoena. If you flagrantly cheat and lie, you'll get away with it. Bounties at Miami? No problem. Academic fraud and fake degree programs at UNC? No problem. But if you cheat even accidentally in the most benign of ways and then confess and cooperate, you'll get the book thrown at you. Make 5 minutes too much phone calls in recruiting that week and confess to it? PROBATION. LOSS OF SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 4 YEARS. POSTSEASON BAN.

In the NFL the dirty secret of the profession is you're likely going to suffer some degree of brain damage. In the NCAA the dirty secret is that you're likely going to get a worthless degree that barely qualifies you to run a Verizon store.

In the NFL, you're dealing with talented players who want to be there and have meaningful experience. In the NCAA you may have to do a near from-the-ground-up teaching job more frequently as fewer and fewer people play HS football leading to more situations that don't teach players how to play the game at a high level, like 7 on 7 football.

In the NFL, teams extort their cities for taxpayer funds to build new palatial stadium at eye watering sums which is never recovered by the taxpayers just so everybody can do it all over again in 20 years. In the NCAA teams have to pay for stadiums themselves unless they're UCONN.

In the NFL if you want to lure really good players you need a low tax state and top shelf escorts. In the NCAA if you want to lure really good players you need bag men masquerading as NIL opportunities.





It really isn't THAT hard to fix the NCAA. Total compensation caps. Total staff caps. NIL caps. You must sit out one year after transferring unless the coach you played for was fired or you graduated. The regulatory body in charge of investigation for fraud and cheating must have teeth and meaningful power. The rub is to get this environment, which I think the majority of even the P5 would support given the right structure, you need Congress to pass an anti-trust exemption. That's tough. It's been almost 30 years since Congress actually had meaningful bipartisan reform.
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If fixing the NCAA requires an act of Congress, it's doomed. Congress needs to be fixed first and that ain't happening any time soon.

It's a complete free for all at this point and good luck getting all the programs, conferences, administrations, NCAA and players to agree on a path forward.

Like everything else in life, there are "have's" and "have-not's" and you won't find many that will voluntarily give up their position of being a "have". Why would the SEC and it's member schools voluntarily agree to change anything at this point? The SEC is an absolute gravy train right now. Like it or not, the SEC has become the de-facto governing body of college sports and I don't think they see any problems that they care enough about to try and fix.

College football, as we have known it, is dead. I think it died some time ago. That is only going to become more and more apparent as time goes on.
 
Buzzilla said:
I think this would just drive the payments back under the table.
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Sure, but then at least the schools that were less brazen about it in the past have capacity to pay players openly at the same legal level as the big guns.
 
00Burdell said:
Isnt the NFL basically an overblown labor union functioning as a regulated monopoly?
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It's a cartel. Unlike the CFB, the League will do anything and everything needed to maintain the air of parity or fairness or whatever half-baked bullshit the ESPN viewing public needs to hear to keep buying ööööty merch at Costco.
 
Buzzilla said:
In 2023, what are the differences between pro and college football with regard to the players, free agency and getting paid?

At this point, I see very little difference. The potential player can easily move in and out of college programs and contract out his "services" to the highest bidder to any separate entity with no accountability other than that governed by contract law. There are virtually no legitimate academic requirements in many of these programs (UNC).

It would seem that if you have deep enough pockets, you can go out and bid up any player you want across the country and become a de-facto owner of that college program.

What am I missing?
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By "pro" I assume you mean the NFL and by college I assume you mean FBS . . . because otherwise your post makes no sense at all.

Here are the major differences today as I see them between the NFL and FBS.

1) The NFL teams have owners, and ALL of those owners are guaranteed a big. fat, profit every year -win or lose. FBS teams are "owned" by various colleges and universities and many (most?) of them actually lose money, while a few generate a nice profit for their owners.

2) The NFL has a hard salary cap which no owner is allowed to exceed, and a hard salary floor which all owners must exceed each year. FBS football teams have no kind of salary cap or salary floor at all. Some may choose to spend to the moon. Others may decide to cheap out over a paltry million dollars or two when hiring a coach.

3) The NFL has a central league office which oversees everything. It sets the schedules for all teams, negotiates TV rights deals in which all teams share equally, establishes objective rules for who gets into the playoffs and how they are seeded, has the ability to fine players (!!!) and teams for actions on the field. FCS football has nothing like this central league office. Teams set their own schedules, in coordination with their various conferences (of which there are many). The individual teams and their various conferences negotiate TV rights deals which vary wildly from team to team. Teams get into the playoffs based on the subjective whims of a self-appointed College Football Committee which is not even associated in any way with the NCAA . . . it is very much like Politburo. Neither it nor the NCAA has any authority to fine players or teams for actions on the field.

4) Because of 1, 2, and 3 above, every team in the NFL has a legitimate chance to compete for a championship wihin a perod of, say, three tro five years. Because of 1, 2, and 3 above, 90 percent of FBS teams have absolutely no realistic chance to compete for a championship over a period of decades.
 
1982Jacket said:
By "pro" I assume you mean the NFL and by college I assume you mean FBS . . . because otherwise your post makes no sense at all.

Here are the major differences today as I see them between the NFL and FBS.

1) The NFL teams have owners, and ALL of those owners are guaranteed a big. fat, profit every year -win or lose. FBS teams are "owned" by various colleges and universities and many (most?) of them actually lose money, while a few generate a nice profit for their owners.

2) The NFL has a hard salary cap which no owner is allowed to exceed, and a hard salary floor which all owners must exceed each year. FBS football teams have no kind of salary cap or salary floor at all. Some may choose to spend to the moon. Others may decide to cheap out over a paltry million dollars or two when hiring a coach.

3) The NFL has a central league office which oversees everything. It sets the schedules for all teams, negotiates TV rights deals in which all teams share equally, establishes objective rules for who gets into the playoffs and how they are seeded, has the ability to fine players (!!!) and teams for actions on the field. FCS football has nothing like this central league office. Teams set their own schedules, in coordination with their various conferences (of which there are many). The individual teams and their various conferences negotiate TV rights deals which vary wildly from team to team. Teams get into the playoffs based on the subjective whims of a self-appointed College Football Committee which is not even associated in any way with the NCAA . . . it is very much like Politburo. Neither it nor the NCAA has any authority to fine players or teams for actions on the field.

4) Because of 1, 2, and 3 above, every team in the NFL has a legitimate chance to compete for a championship wihin a perod of, say, three tro five years. Because of 1, 2, and 3 above, 90 percent of FBS teams have absolutely no realistic chance to compete for a championship over a period of decades.
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I omitted one major one . .

3A) In the NFL, new players are assigned teams via a draft in which all teams participate, and the worst teams get the best picks of new players. There are also restrictions on free agency so teams don't lose all their best players. So it tends to be leveling. In FBS, each new player decides for himself where to go, often based on where they will make the most money. So the best teams typically get the best new players. And players can pick up and go somewhere else any time they like. So success and failure tend to be self-perpetuating.
 
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