It has to be the Coaching....

1

1gtfan

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The ACC has put more players in the NFL the last few years than any other conference....

What I see and it was very clear (Listen to Herbstreit and the gang this morning on College football final) That Clemson was outcoached...Bowden is pitiful..His team literally walked out onto the field last night..NO emotion at all...Wussies....

You reverse the roles and Saban was coaching Clemson, Clemson wins and maybe more than by 24 points...

Clemson annually has some of the best talent in college football and play like wussies...

I'm convinced we don't have the head coaches the sec, Pac 10 and Big 10 have and thus the results the last few years...

I think P.J. has a chance to make his mark and in a big way in our conference...His teams will be tough as nails and play inspired....He practices and prepares his teams that way, similiar to Saban, his teams will play with toughness...

Grobe, P.J., Butch Davis and Beamer..Possibly Tom Obrien (Outside of these head coaches, I don't see a toughness there that it takes to win)

I know VT lost to a very good East Carolina team ( Yes, ECU willl be good this year and VT is very young, they lost more starters than anyone in our conference from last year) BUT, Beamer has proven to be a good coach and his teams show toughness..

No doubt Butch Davis will have UNC there but, it will be a couple of more years.

Grobe, we all know is an outstanding coach.

I think the Ex-Marine Obrein will have NC. State there in a few years. (Amato didn't leave him much) They will play with toughness.

But, my point is, outside of these 5 maybe 6 Head Coaches, the ACC doesn't have the coaches the other conferences have.

Tommy Bowden has to go, NO way Clemson should not have had a couple of more National Championships since 1981..Just too much there to offer at Clemson..They need to make a change and get a Saban type coach there.

A lot of people around the country said, The ACC would be top to bottom the best conference in college football when we expanded and we have produced the players and have great talent BUT, have not shown it on the scoreboard.

Another thing that needs to happen, is for Fsu and Miami, to get back to where they were, the best teams in college football...I'm hoping Jimbo will take FSU back to greatness, (Of course with us beating them every year in the Conference Championship game)
Miami is getting some great top 3 talent every year, But, I'm not sold on Shannon as their coach. Another team like Clemson that needs to have a great coach, just way too much talent that is wasted.

I.M.H.O. Fsu, Miaimi, Clemson all need to be in or near the top 5 every year. No excuses with all the talent these programs produce.

Thoughts?
 
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Interesting question as their is an obvious gap when the supposed "best" team in one league was physically dominated by middle of the pack SEC team. (Both as defined by preseason "experts).

I will take a look to see how many draft picks the ACC has by interior linemen vs. skill positions. The differences on the line of scrimmage last night between Bama and Clemson were glaring.

One other thing...SEC football is like ACC basketball...there are no breathers so the teams beat each other up but get better so when OOC games occur (or bowl games or tournament time) they are better prepared. Meanwhile, ACC teams only have 3-4 tough games per year so we don't develop the mental and physical toughness that other conferences do (see our 0-8 BCS bowl game record). ACC teams get to fill up on a diet of NC State, Maryland, Duke,etc.

I firmly believe that Vandy would be an upper-tier ACC team.
 
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Some interesting points, I do disagree with the Vandy thing though...Vandy would be just a notch above Duke.

I still think it was a touhness that was lacking there last night with Clemson, especially on the Dline...Clemson, Miami, Fsu and Vt should be VERY tough games every year in the ACC..They all have as much talent as any Sec team..Unc may very well get there talent wise in 2 to 3 years the way Davis is recruiting. as I said, I think the ACC has the talent, it just doesn't man up (As Pat Dye says) in the games.. It is coaching I.M.H.O.

Like I said, Saban reversing roles and coaching Clemson last night, Clemson would win big. Clemson from top to bottom has more talent than Alabama...Now, the sec media around here would not have you believe that, but they do. The guys at Espn even said that, Clemson just flat out got out coached last night as usual.
 
B said:
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One other thing...SEC football is like ACC basketball...there are no breathers so the teams beat each other up but get better so when OOC games occur (or bowl games or tournament time) they are better prepared. Meanwhile, ACC teams only have 3-4 tough games per year so we don't develop the mental and physical toughness that other conferences do (see our 0-8 BCS bowl game record). ACC teams get to fill up on a diet of NC State, Maryland, Duke,etc.

I firmly believe that Vandy would be an upper-tier ACC team.
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Maybe, but also keep in mind that MSU got beat by La Tech yesterday. The SEC has some of the top teams in the country; but they also have some below average teams. Arkansas barely pulled it out against Western Illinois. SEC teams get 'weeks off' just like all the other schools, and they almost never travel outside the old confederate states. Still, the SEC has about 6 legit top 20 teams (not all of which play each other); but don't over sell it.
 
Good points ...

The Sec had a drought up until the last 2 National Championships and now they are riding a wave of popularity....It goes in cycles, I think the ACC can and will get there, But, I think Programs like Clemson and Miami need to have the resolve to win and bring in the very best Head coaches they can find.

We need some coaching changes in the ACC...
 
Well lets look at all of them:

GT: PJ seems like he is going to be great.

VT: Beamer is a great coach, he's just gotten terrible talent the last few years.

UNC: Butch Davis is a great coach that turned Miami around. Can he do the same for UNC? Jury is still out.

Duke: Cutcliffe is a major upgrade for them.

Miami: Shannon doesn't seem all that to me. Anyone who willingly hires Nix isn't qualified to be a head coach unless its a highschool team.

UVA: Groh is a waste of time.

Atlantic:
BC: New coach, lets see what he does without OBrien's talent.

NCST: OBrien is better than The Chest

Wake: Grobe is a genius.

FSU: Bowden is way past his due.

Clemson: Tommy is terrible. The worst coach in the ACC.

Maryland: Fridge. I'd be happy with Fridge if I were Maryland.



Bottom line is There is some major dead weight in our conference as far as coaches go. Both Bowden's need to go. FSU will be in a rebuilding period for a year but will bounce back to be a power. Miami needs someone with balls and knowledge to make a qualified hire. Clemson needs to do the same. UVA is probably stuck with Groh for at least a couple of more years.

The problem is, three of the top teams in the ACC have less than solid coaching. In fact Miami has made a complete reversal into the bottom portion of the league. Its allowed teams like Wake to step up.

Last two seasons you've seen the mid level teams make major upgrades to the coaching. We've also watched the lower end teams make upgrades to the coaching. Now its time for the typical powers in the conference to sweep out their coaches.

The ACC will return, but until Miami, Clemson, FSU, and UVA pull their heads out of their ass and make a change, we may still be in for some dismal times.
 
I am beyond sick and tired of people saying we NEED f$u and miami to become powers again. NO WE DON'T! All we need is for any two or three schools to start busting heads nationally for the ACC to start getting some respect. The Big Ten gets blasted all the time because people accuse them of being osu/um and nothing else. It isn't about certain schools dominating, it's about having dominating schools (if that makes sense)

Scenario: TECH, wake, and unc are perennial top-10 teams, and between the three have played in or won the past five national championship games. That would do just as much for our conference as having f$u and miami rise back up.

Another thing to mention is parity. We can't just be top loaded, the SEC doesn't just hang it's hat on the fact that it's best teams are the best in the nation. It prides itself in having all it's teams being good enough to possibly beat those best teams week in and week out. So we don't just need f$u and miami to step it up. We need climpsun, bc, nc sta e, maryland, uva, vpi, dook, wake, unc, and TECH to all step it up.
 
At the risk of sounding like Dave Braine, Tech, UNC and Wake would all have a very tough time, with their various academic or geographic restrictions, to be a perennial top-10 team of the caliber of USC, Texas or Ohio State. FSU, Miami and maybe Clemson have the talent available that these schools do, yet their inept coaching has held them back.

The weakness of the ACC the past few years have the coaches like Groh and Tommy slide by for far longer than they would have in the SEC. I think PJ, Grobe, Butch Davis and Beamer will force these coaches out after they don't get big wins and don't get bowl games. Then the ACC will at least get back to where it was pre-2004.
 
We don't need Miami and FSU to become powers, I agree.

We need teams like UVA to take their head out of their ass and at least show some stones when you play a top team like USCw.

Same goes for Clemson.

What a bunch of girls!
 
floridajacket said:
At the risk of sounding like Dave Braine, Tech, UNC and Wake would all have a very tough time, with their various academic or geographic restrictions, to be a perennial top-10 team of the caliber of USC, Texas or Ohio State. FSU, Miami and maybe Clemson have the talent available that these schools do, yet their inept coaching has held them back.

The weakness of the ACC the past few years have the coaches like Groh and Tommy slide by for far longer than they would have in the SEC. I think PJ, Grobe, Butch Davis and Beamer will force these coaches out after they don't get big wins and don't get bowl games. Then the ACC will at least get back to where it was pre-2004.
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As true as that is, my point was that if somehow TECH or wake or unc did rise to national prominence, it would do just as much for the conference as f$u, miami, or climpsun. The latter three may have an easier road to national prestige, but that doesn't directly mean that they are the key to reestablishing the ACC's credibility. It simply means that if anyone from the ACC were to do it, it would be them.

I'm of the belief that good coaching can overcome the higher academic standards of an institute. Of the three schools I mentioned, Grobe has already begun bringing wake to bigger and better heights than they've ever reached. The consensus amongst most people is that Butch Davis will have the same effect on unc. As for us, well, its easy to see the confidence we have in Coach Johnson. I think the academic argument has some merit, but at the end of the day, it comes back to coaching, as most here have agreed.
 
:biggthumpup:
GTSaxophone said:
I am beyond sick and tired of people saying we NEED f$u and miami to become powers again. NO WE DON'T! All we need is for any two or three schools to start busting heads nationally for the ACC to start getting some respect. The Big Ten gets blasted all the time because people accuse them of being osu/um and nothing else. It isn't about certain schools dominating, it's about having dominating schools (if that makes sense)

Scenario: TECH, wake, and unc are perennial top-10 teams, and between the three have played in or won the past five national championship games. That would do just as much for our conference as having f$u and miami rise back up.

Another thing to mention is parity. We can't just be top loaded, the SEC doesn't just hang it's hat on the fact that it's best teams are the best in the nation. It prides itself in having all it's teams being good enough to possibly beat those best teams week in and week out. So we don't just need f$u and miami to step it up. We need climpsun, bc, nc sta e, maryland, uva, vpi, dook, wake, unc, and TECH to all step it up.[/quote]:biggthumpup:

POST OF THE YEAR
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Tommy Bowden, Al Groh, etc never would have lasted this long in the SEC.
 
BarrelORum said:
Well lets look at all of them:

GT: PJ seems like he is going to be great.

VT: Beamer is a great coach, he's just gotten terrible talent the last few years.

UNC: Butch Davis is a great coach that turned Miami around. Can he do the same for UNC? Jury is still out.

Duke: Cutcliffe is a major upgrade for them.

Miami: Shannon doesn't seem all that to me. Anyone who willingly hires Nix isn't qualified to be a head coach unless its a highschool team.

UVA: Groh is a waste of time.

Atlantic:
BC: New coach, lets see what he does without OBrien's talent.

NCST: OBrien is better than The Chest

Wake: Grobe is a genius.

FSU: Bowden is way past his due.

Clemson: Tommy is terrible. The worst coach in the ACC.

Maryland: Fridge. I'd be happy with Fridge if I were Maryland.



Bottom line is There is some major dead weight in our conference as far as coaches go. Both Bowden's need to go. FSU will be in a rebuilding period for a year but will bounce back to be a power. Miami needs someone with balls and knowledge to make a qualified hire. Clemson needs to do the same. UVA is probably stuck with Groh for at least a couple of more years.

The problem is, three of the top teams in the ACC have less than solid coaching. In fact Miami has made a complete reversal into the bottom portion of the league. Its allowed teams like Wake to step up.

Last two seasons you've seen the mid level teams make major upgrades to the coaching. We've also watched the lower end teams make upgrades to the coaching. Now its time for the typical powers in the conference to sweep out their coaches.

The ACC will return, but until Miami, Clemson, FSU, and UVA pull their heads out of their ass and make a change, we may still be in for some dismal times.
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Good post, although I disagree on Friedgen, he is not a very good HEAD coach, asst. yes, but just not the Head Coach at a BCS conference you want leading you to a championship...

Swofford needs to be replaced also....We need an agressive commissioner, one that will use the bully pulpit....We need pressure put on those programs you mentioned (Miami, Clemson, Uva and I think a few others such as Maryland ) to make changes and MAN UP...Coaching is everything in todays college game (With the 85 Scholly rule and the parity across the land now, I think coaching is everything now. Most all the schools can get talent but coaching is where the difference is..I.E. Grobe and Wake...
 
Heather Dinich had nice column today about what she learned from ACC Week 1.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/acc/0-1-371/What-we-learned--Week-1.html

5. Yes, Paul Johnson's offense will work. Here's the difference between PJ and RichRod. One can't seem to figure out how to use "his offense" with the players he inherited and the other, Johnson, knows how to adapt and win football games with what he has. If the Yellow Jackets have to throw it to win, so be it. If the triple option is the best option, they'll run with it.
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BarrelORum said:
Well lets look at all of them:

GT: PJ seems like he is going to be great.

VT: Beamer is a great coach, he's just gotten terrible talent the last few years.

UNC: Butch Davis is a great coach that turned Miami around. Can he do the same for UNC? Jury is still out.

Duke: Cutcliffe is a major upgrade for them.

Miami: Shannon doesn't seem all that to me. Anyone who willingly hires Nix isn't qualified to be a head coach unless its a highschool team.

UVA: Groh is a waste of time.

Atlantic:
BC: New coach, lets see what he does without OBrien's talent.

NCST: OBrien is better than The Chest

Wake: Grobe is a genius.

FSU: Bowden is way past his due.

Clemson: Tommy is terrible. The worst coach in the ACC.

Maryland: Fridge. I'd be happy with Fridge if I were Maryland.



Bottom line is There is some major dead weight in our conference as far as coaches go. Both Bowden's need to go. FSU will be in a rebuilding period for a year but will bounce back to be a power. Miami needs someone with balls and knowledge to make a qualified hire. Clemson needs to do the same. UVA is probably stuck with Groh for at least a couple of more years.

The problem is, three of the top teams in the ACC have less than solid coaching. In fact Miami has made a complete reversal into the bottom portion of the league. Its allowed teams like Wake to step up.

Last two seasons you've seen the mid level teams make major upgrades to the coaching. We've also watched the lower end teams make upgrades to the coaching. Now its time for the typical powers in the conference to sweep out their coaches.

The ACC will return, but until Miami, Clemson, FSU, and UVA pull their heads out of their ass and make a change, we may still be in for some dismal times.
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I agree with most of your post, and I'm glad Maryland has Friedgen. Friedgen keeps Maryland mediocre and beatable; but if I was a Maryland booster, I would say "Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Fat Ralph has got to go".
 
aeromech said:
I agree with most of your post, and I'm glad Maryland has Friedgen. Friedgen keeps Maryland mediocre and beatable; but if I was a Maryland booster, I would say "Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Fat Ralph has got to go".
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Awww... but he fits so well with their mascot! :laugher:
 
For fsu and UM to get back to where they were will require cheating like they did before. Not sure we want that.
 
GoldZ said:
For fsu and UM to get back to where they were will require cheating like they did before. Not sure we want that.
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May no mistake. Cheating fueled the return of the PAC-10 to national acceptance (see the Reggie Bush story). For those too young to remember, it was not that long ago that people wondered what the PAC-10 was doing in the BCS.

As the SEC motto has always been: If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.
 
GTSaxophone said:
I am beyond sick and tired of people saying we NEED f$u and miami to become powers again. NO WE DON'T! All we need is for any two or three schools to start busting heads nationally for the ACC to start getting some respect.
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I agree, and you are absolutely right. But the bottom line is no one has yet to step up to the plate and beat the national powers like Miami and FSU used to do.
 
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