Kaleb Oliver in the portal

Techbert said:
Pretty sure Johnson recruited all the people who should be non-transfer seniors right now, and the year before, and the year before.

The slip happened on your hero's watch. We are just repairing the damage.
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No numb nuts, I am talking about the 2021 class. On it's own it is ranked 11th in the ACC and 47th nationally, it is not as good as CGC's typical classes unless you consider the portal transfers which are pretty good.
 
aeromech said:
No numb nuts, I am talking about the 2021 class. On it's own it is ranked 11th in the ACC and 47th nationally, it is not as good as CGC's typical classes unless you consider the portal transfers which are pretty good.
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So it was not good if we only count some of the recruits?
 
aeromech said:
No numb nuts, I am talking about the 2021 class. On it's own it is ranked 11th in the ACC and 47th nationally, it is not as good as CGC's typical classes unless you consider the portal transfers which are pretty good.
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It's a small class with only 16 HS recruits. But a full quarter of them are blue chips, so that's nice. If we filled the rest of the class with even mid 3 star recruits (which we could have done), it would be pretty comparable to last year's, ranking wise. I think the transfers are more about filling big holes on the roster with the best players we can get, some of whom can help right away.
 
smokey_wasp said:
It's a small class with only 16 HS recruits. But a full quarter of them are blue chips, so that's nice. If we filled the rest of the class with even mid 3 star recruits (which we could have done), it would be pretty comparable to last year's, ranking wise. I think the transfers are more about filling big holes on the roster with the best players we can get, some of whom can help right away.
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I think you guys are reading what I posted as a complaint; but it wasn't. Explanations aside, this class was ranked lower than typical CGC classes if you don't factor in the portal transfers. Those transfers are filling scholarship positions that could have been filled with a larger recruiting class are they not?
 
aeromech said:
I think you guys are reading what I posted as a complaint; but it wasn't. Explanations aside, this class was ranked lower than typical CGC classes if you don't factor in the portal transfers. Those transfers are filling scholarship positions that could have been filled with a larger recruiting class are they not?
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If you are stupid enough to think that a true freshman is equal to a graduate student football player, for the year you need to bridge then sure. Or that a transfer with 3 or 4 years should not be counted cuz we need to count only high schoolers, cuz rankings....
 
Techbert said:
If you are stupid enough to think that a true freshman is equal to a graduate student football player, for the year you need to bridge then sure. Or that a transfer with 3 or 4 years should not be counted cuz we need to count only high schoolers, cuz rankings....
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So are you disappointed in this year's recruiting class or does the low ranking not matter because we got some good transfers through the portal. Make up your mind. If you are going to cry about CPJ's recruiting every season you shouldn't be shocked that people start paying attention to recruiting rankings.
 
I complain about CPJ recruiting because he sucked at recruiting, not because of the ratings. The only interesting discussion is why he sucked and not whether or not he sucked.

I criticize the artificial nature of recruiting ratings on a regular basis. I see if the needs were met and does the team improve, and at what rate. This last class met our needs very well.

So my mind is cleared. I submit it is yours that is muddled, because you try to reduce a nuanced and complex subject involving a couple dozen untapped players down to a single number.

Techbert,
never criticized CPJ or his recruiting while he was our coach
 
aeromech said:
So are you disappointed in this year's recruiting class or does the low ranking not matter because we got some good transfers through the portal. Make up your mind. If you are going to cry about CPJ's recruiting every season you shouldn't be shocked that people start paying attention to recruiting rankings.
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It's just a matter of context. Rankings matter over time, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. A small Collins ends up ranked about where a full Johnson class would. But look at the individual recruits and it's quite different.
 
TechRush said:
Pick one:

Didn't want him, didn't need him

or

Rats jumping off of a sinking ship
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Or: He got his degree and is seeking a different opportunity for his future. Keep in mind also Kaleb is a dad and I believe his family is up in Tennessee.
 
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smokey_wasp said:
It's just a matter of context. Rankings matter over time, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. A small Collins ends up ranked about where a full Johnson class would. But look at the individual recruits and it's quite different.
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Probably true, but without the portal CGC would have had to fill out the rest of the recruiting class with the guys that are complained about on here ad nauseam (poor offer sheet, low 3 star or 2 star, etc..). I doubt CGC side stepped guys that fit his profile when finishing this class. In the past a coach would have been forced to either eat the scholarship or roll the dice on some guys and hope one of them pans out over time. Small class and multiple portal pickups should be an advantage over what coaches did just a few years ago.
 
The Champ said:
I thought the Nickle had to be really quick since you’re going to matchup with more small slot WRs. A boundry corner has the benefit of the sideline, and is more likely to be dropping into a 2 or 3 deep shell anyway. That’s where you want a physical corner that understands leverage and can play the ball which Tre does pretty well.
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I guess there may be diverging opinions on this. It does seem like a NB should be quick enough to keep up with speedy slot WRs, but they are also more likely to have safety help over the top on deep balls. Outside corners can end up on an island trying to run with fast WRs, so long speed seems very important for them.

As far as tackling, doesn't our nickel corner also need to be physical, since they are basically replacing a linebacker as we transition to a 4-2-5 from a 4-3? Outside corners make a lot of 1v1 tackles on WRs, whereas nickel corners might end up tackling RBs in the middle of the field. Oliver is basically a LB - better at tackling than covering in space, so that does seem to back up what I was thinking.
 
aeromech said:
No numb nuts, I am talking about the 2021 class. On it's own it is ranked 11th in the ACC and 47th nationally, it is not as good as CGC's typical classes unless you consider the portal transfers which are pretty good.
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You do realize that's because of the way the class rankings are tabulated, right? We only had 16 high school signees because we needed to fill so many gaps with the portal. Rivals bases a class total on 20 recruits. So if you have 25, only your top 20 are counted. If you have less than 20, everybody is counted and you are basically 4 guys short. Let's start with Rivals:

We have 16 signees, 1260 total points. Out of our signees, everyone is 5.5 or higher except for one who is a punter, and another who was evaluated as an OL, we recruited at a DL, and he did not get to play his HS season (they are playing a spring season) to get re-evaluated at DL. So our floor is basically a 5.5 rated recruit. The transfers we brought in were much higher than that but we wont even worry about transfers for this. Just say we filled that class with 4 more 5.5 rated guys, that would add 240 points to our total (60 points each) and put us at 1500, which would be good for 29th place in recruiting rankings. If we fill it with four 5.7 guys, that's 360 points to our total (90 each) and puts us at 1620 which would be good for 23rd place. So a full class would have put us somewhere in that range, 23rd-29th. If you sort the current list with only our 16 by average start rating, we are at number 31.

247's calculator works on sort of a bell curve where the highest rated recruits count the most and the lowest count the least. So the more you have in a class, the less your lowest rated members count. The easiest way to figure where a class would be is to use their class calculator. Currently we are 47th at 186.82 points. If you add 4 of the lowest rated 3* players to the class to get it to 20, that number changes to 193.01, which puts us right around 40. Add 4 of the higher rated 3* players instead and that changes class rating to 200.09 which puts us 37th. Not as high as Rivals (which I trust more) but still a good bit higher than where we sit without a full class. If you have a completely full (25) class that helps even more on 247. Also, if you look at the current average ranking of our 2021 commits on 247, it is 86.42 which would jump us up about 10 spots going by that.
 
aeromech said:
No numb nuts, I am talking about the 2021 class. On it's own it is ranked 11th in the ACC and 47th nationally, it is not as good as CGC's typical classes unless you consider the portal transfers which are pretty good.
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Also, we didn't back fill holes in the current recruiting class with transfers. We had to turn HS guys away from this class because we didn't have space after backfilling the holes in the current roster.
 
aeromech said:
Probably true, but without the portal CGC would have had to fill out the rest of the recruiting class with the guys that are complained about on here ad nauseam (poor offer sheet, low 3 star or 2 star, etc..). I doubt CGC side stepped guys that fit his profile when finishing this class. In the past a coach would have been forced to either eat the scholarship or roll the dice on some guys and hope one of them pans out over time. Small class and multiple portal pickups should be an advantage over what coaches did just a few years ago.
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You would think that, but it rarely works that way. Individual recruits do not sign in a vacuum.

Your mechanical model sez if you sign 16 then you sign the 16 top recruits you want, and #17 is incrementally weaker, but it does not work that way. The truth is more dynamic and depends on who is interested when and who else is going.

With the Johnson models you would have 2 or 3 with okay offer sheets, 2 or 3 that were specialized to the 3O needs, and then whoever he could get at different positions. With crappy offer sheets.
 
johncu said:
I guess there may be diverging opinions on this. It does seem like a NB should be quick enough to keep up with speedy slot WRs, but they are also more likely to have safety help over the top on deep balls. Outside corners can end up on an island trying to run with fast WRs, so long speed seems very important for them.

As far as tackling, doesn't our nickel corner also need to be physical, since they are basically replacing a linebacker as we transition to a 4-2-5 from a 4-3? Outside corners make a lot of 1v1 tackles on WRs, whereas nickel corners might end up tackling RBs in the middle of the field. Oliver is basically a LB - better at tackling than covering in space, so that does seem to back up what I was thinking.
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Probably goes both ways. In the NFL you better be able to go everything, or a good QB is going expose you.

We do seem to use the Nickle as an athletic LB more so than that I see in the NFL. I think that is it part because of how weak we are in the front 7 (or 6) that we need a player there than can be physical. I’m not sure that always worked out though, especially when we had Charlie Thomas types trying to play man vs traditional WR types
 
smokey_wasp said:
Or: He got his degree and is seeking a different opportunity for his future. Keep in mind also Kaleb is a dad and I believe his family is up in Tennessee.
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This does not fit the narrative. There can only be two options. One pro program and one anti program. There is no middle ground here.
 
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