Monken/Vandy

ramblinwise1 said:
I don't remember Bear ever running the 30 at Bama. Link? They certainly weren't known for it like Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Nebraska were. Some of those teams won Nattys running it.
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How old are you? I have a tape around here somewhere of us beating them in ‘82 when they ran the wishbone. They installed it in 1971 after a 6-5 season in 70 and seeing it firsthand against Oklahoma.
 
ncjacket said:
How old are you? I have a tape around here somewhere of us beating them in ‘82 when they ran the wishbone. They installed it in 1971 after a 6-5 season in 70 and seeing it firsthand against Oklahoma.
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66 and was a manager at Tech from 72-74 and Bama wasn't all that good then from memory. We didn't play them. Did they ever win a championship running the option? Pepper brought in the option in 74 I think but abandoned it when Eddie Lee was there. I think we ran it in the bowl game with Purdue in 78 after Eddie Lee got hurt, but we got shutdown.
 
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ramblinwise1 said:
66 and was a manager at Tech from 72-74 and Bama wasn't all that good then from memory. We didn't play them. Did they ever win a championship running the option? Pepper brought in the option in 74 I think but abandoned it when Eddie Lee was there. I think we ran it in the bowl game with Purdue in 78 after Eddie Lee got hurt, but we got shutdown.
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I think they won 8 or 9 SEC championships and 3? National titles? It was kind of the last stage of Bear’s career.
 
I don’t understand the fascination with Monken. The TO is a total death sentence for recruiting in CFB these days. We’re living the nightmare of trying to recover from it. I’d take Geoff Collins every day of the week and twice on Sundays before I even considered Monken.
 
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Tampa Jacket said:
I don’t understand the fascination with Monken. The TO is a total death sentence for recruiting in CFB these days. We’re living the nightmare of trying to recover from it. I’d take Geoff Collins every day of the week and twice on Sundays before I even considered Monken.
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I think it hurts recruiting but it's not a death sentence. Paul gave recruiting with the TO a bad name partly because he was personally just a poor recruiter. Thing is, Vandy had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, and I think they missed an opportunity not to have done so. Would like to have seen it.
 
athensjacket said:
I think it hurts recruiting but it's not a death sentence. Paul gave recruiting with the TO a bad name partly because he was personally just a poor recruiter. Thing is, Vandy had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, and I think they missed an opportunity not to have done so. Would like to have seen it.
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For Vanderbilt specifically I agree. I mean what do they have to lose although they tried this once before with Gerry DiNardo. But overall I can’t see another P5 school going that way. If Monken wants to take his shot at a bigger school he will need to evolve what he’s doing at Army.
 
ncjacket said:
For Vanderbilt specifically I agree. I mean what do they have to lose although they tried this once before with Gerry DiNardo. But overall I can’t see another P5 school going that way. If Monken wants to take his shot at a bigger school he will need to evolve what he’s doing at Army.
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I've never understood why there isn't a 3-O package for some teams. It would be similar to running wildcat. Bring in the wildcat QB, could be a RB or safety or WR, and run some 3-O in various situations. The wildcat as it is is just snapping the ball and having the wildcat QB just looking for a spot to run.

Don't change the entire offense, just use it like the wildcat when needed
 
athensjacket said:
I think it hurts recruiting but it's not a death sentence. Paul gave recruiting with the TO a bad name partly because he was personally just a poor recruiter. Thing is, Vandy had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, and I think they missed an opportunity not to have done so. Would like to have seen it.
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Bingo.
 
athensjacket said:
I think it hurts recruiting but it's not a death sentence. Paul gave recruiting with the TO a bad name partly because he was personally just a poor recruiter. Thing is, Vandy had nothing to lose by giving it a shot, and I think they missed an opportunity not to have done so. Would like to have seen it.
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No, it's a death sentence. PJ's lack of interest in recruiting doesn't explain it away. We were never worth a crap on D under PJ's TO either. Fact is, kids just don't want to play in it. QBs who can throw and WRs who can catch - why have any interest in it? OL absolutely DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN THE TO. From the large # of kids suddenly wanting to transfer to GT to play defense post-PJ, it's clear that Defensive players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN A TO PROGRAM.

It's human nature to want to remember the good over the bad. Ultimately, the TO was bad for our football program and it was time to take that horse behind the barn and shoot it. Doesn't mean it wasn't fun to ride a few times.
 
Also, HS football is so different now. 20 years ago there were plenty of great QBs that ran under center, run first offenses. By the time Johnson ended at Tech there were none of those. Everyone is shotgun, pass first.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
No, it's a death sentence. PJ's lack of interest in recruiting doesn't explain it away. We were never worth a crap on D under PJ's TO either. Fact is, kids just don't want to play in it. QBs who can throw and WRs who can catch - why have any interest in it? OL absolutely DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN THE TO. From the large # of kids suddenly wanting to transfer to GT to play defense post-PJ, it's clear that Defensive players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN A TO PROGRAM.

It's human nature to want to remember the good over the bad. Ultimately, the TO was bad for our football program and it was time to take that horse behind the barn and shoot it. Doesn't mean it wasn't fun to ride a few times.
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The head coach recruits defense too. And he sets the tone and expectations for recruiting. He did not get the job done and he employed a staff that did not get the job done.

He didn't have to keep up with Clemson, but he fell behind Wake and BC.
 
Walton said:
Also, HS football is so different now. 20 years ago there were plenty of great QBs that ran under center, run first offenses. By the time Johnson ended at Tech there were none of those. Everyone is shotgun, pass first.
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This is not insignificant. It is significant that the kids are coming in way more ready to play in a conventional pass-pro offense.
 
GTCrew said:
This is not insignificant. It is significant that the kids are coming in way more ready to play in a conventional pass-pro offense.
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Right. They flat-out don't want to play in a TO regardless of who is recruiting
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
No, it's a death sentence. PJ's lack of interest in recruiting doesn't explain it away. We were never worth a crap on D under PJ's TO either. Fact is, kids just don't want to play in it. QBs who can throw and WRs who can catch - why have any interest in it? OL absolutely DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN THE TO. From the large # of kids suddenly wanting to transfer to GT to play defense post-PJ, it's clear that Defensive players DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN A TO PROGRAM.

It's human nature to want to remember the good over the bad. Ultimately, the TO was bad for our football program and it was time to take that horse behind the barn and shoot it. Doesn't mean it wasn't fun to ride a few times.
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It's human nature to remember what you want to remember. I don't consider Multiple ACC championship games, an orange bowl win, several winning seasons, and a couple thriller victories over ugag teams that were carrying top 10 recruiting squads and preseason championship rankings a death sentence for GT football.

As already said, PJ was a terrible recruiter. However, he was an offensive genius. He needed help with D coaching and recruiting, if he had managed to make that happen, he would still be here and we would probably have an eye on Monken to replace him at retirement.

Kids will play wherever they feel they can have the best chance to accomplish their goals be it NFL or otherwise. Every school in the country is fighting over the top 100 athletes. Sometimes you have to pick a few diamonds in the rough and that's what good recruiting is really about. Factories and dynasties propagate themselves because of the nature of money. We are neither of those so we take the good with the bad.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
Right. They flat-out don't want to play in a TO regardless of who is recruiting
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Flat-out? Naw. Kids might prefer to play in a different offense but that's just one factor in where the play college ball. It is simply inexcusable in Atlanta to not be able to recruit better than Paul did.
 
We’ve been such a juggernaut in the past 50 years. Perennial top ten, BCS appearances, and many top 5 bowl appearances. Yeah, I remember all of those.
 
JJacket said:
I've never understood why there isn't a 3-O package for some teams. It would be similar to running wildcat. Bring in the wildcat QB, could be a RB or safety or WR, and run some 3-O in various situations. The wildcat as it is is just snapping the ball and having the wildcat QB just looking for a spot to run.

Don't change the entire offense, just use it like the wildcat when needed
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3-O takes precious practice time. If you dont practice it a lot, chances are when you roll it out that your QB will fumble while trying to execute the option. Plus the blocking techniques and schemes are all different. Really not worth it.
 
ramblinwise1 said:
66 and was a manager at Tech from 72-74 and Bama wasn't all that good then from memory. We didn't play them. Did they ever win a championship running the option? Pepper brought in the option in 74 I think but abandoned it when Eddie Lee was there. I think we ran it in the bowl game with Purdue in 78 after Eddie Lee got hurt, but we got shutdown.
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Your memory is failing. Bama was 11-1 in 73 and in 74, only losing to the Drunken Irish in bowl games both years by a total of three points. The 73 game was an all-time classic that I still remember watching on TV, and I was at the Jan 1, 1975 Orange Bowl where they lost to the Irish and lost another national championship. Alabama was the UPI Champ in 73 running the wishbone, the 78 team was the AP Champ running the wishbone, and the undefeated 79 team was consensus national champ running the 'bone.

Here is a video of the undefeated 79 team running it against Miami.

 
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