NCAA "Amateurism" Strikes Again

Non profit =/= does not make money. But you knew that. Which does make this a troll. Congrats! I fell for it.

Ah, a lawyer. Of course I know the difference, but your reading of the statement is a little too plain. Please read the statement "Non profit/LOL" as "The NCAA has been granted a status (non profit) which they do not deserve." That the NCAA is classified as a "non profit" entity has been important to their defense against liability in these "amateurism" situations.
 
I hate that athletes in college can't profit from their fame but I also see the slippery slope that would soon follow if this rule is relaxed. Just think about how easy it would be to clean money to pay for players? At least now they have to keep it secret which at least doesnt allow Alabama to openly advertise it's salary cap, which I guarantee you is larger than anyone.
 
The NCAA was wrong then, and it's wrong now. Their intent in a case long ago is hardly material at this point, because there's no going back to the environment of 1906, when amateurism was plausible, or even 1984, when the ship had already sailed on the issue. There's nothing left about the sport that's amateur in nature, and the NCAA is succeeding at nothing other than protecting profits for one group at the expense of another when it tells some destitute kid he isn't allowed to profit from his own likeness, as if he's some sort of employee, and isn't entitled to any of the legal protections that he otherwise would be if that were actually true. The NCAA takes the blame for this because it's the entity that is directly involved. Make no mistake, everyone who blames the NCAA blames the networks and the conferences and the schools and the bowls just as much. That there are other interested parties doesn't absolve the enforcer.

His likeness that he is profiting from is tied to his status as an NCAA athlete. The NCAA is amateur by definition. Universities like OU and UGA sued the NCAA when they saw the cash cow that college football could become. They don't care about Student-Athletes anymore than the NCAA does. I would argue less than the NCAA. If you really believe what you are saying then you shouldn't support GT sports. Maybe you already don't. IDK.
 
I also challenge TIA's Tech fan credentials.

The challenge is thereby seconded.
 
His likeness that he is profiting from is tied to his status as an NCAA athlete. The NCAA is amateur by definition. Universities like OU and UGA sued the NCAA when they saw the cash cow that college football could become. They don't care about Student-Athletes anymore than the NCAA does. I would argue less than the NCAA. If you really believe what you are saying then you shouldn't support GT sports. Maybe you already don't. IDK.

The bolded statements are nonsense. First, you can't just say "I'm amateur" and that's that. The word means something, it's not just a status you confer on yourself by fiat. Second, You can advocate for change without boycotting things. In fact, an open hand is usually far more persuasive.

That all goes without saying, of course, that I don't make the slightest difference one way or the other. I'm just some douchebag trolling on a messageboard. Etc.
 
I also challenge TIA's Tech fan credentials.

The challenge is thereby seconded.

I'm the worst. I actively discourage attendance, and I physically steal cash from the pockets of the GTAA. I wear navy blue to games. Well, I don't attend games, but I wear navy blue at home on game day. It's the thought that counts.
 
I don't think players should be able to use their jersey number as part of their twitter handle, because they use it to gain more followers which could translate to more advertising revenue. Actually players shouldn't be on twitter in the first place because they post photos and videos from their daily lives as a student athlete. NCAA owns that. Either quit twitter or quit college.
 
Ah, a lawyer. Of course I know the difference, but your reading of the statement is a little too plain. Please read the statement "Non profit/LOL" as "The NCAA has been granted a status (non profit) which they do not deserve." That the NCAA is classified as a "non profit" entity has been important to their defense against liability in these "amateurism" situations.
And why, you non-lawyer you, doesn't the NCAA deserve that status? Do you not think its purpose of supporting college athletics serves public ends?
 
I don't think players should be able to use their jersey number as part of their twitter handle, because they use it to gain more followers which could translate to more advertising revenue. Actually players shouldn't be on twitter in the first place because they post photos and videos from their daily lives as a student athlete. NCAA owns that. Either quit twitter or quit college.
I don't get the impression that the NCAA is trying to keep the student athletes from profiting as much as they're trying to shut down an avenue for abuse. AdSense pays per view on a sliding scale and most Youtubers don't profit enough to cover expenses, even with basic cheap production. The guidelines are typically that an video needs to be viewed for a minimum of 30 seconds in order to qualify for payment. So, if you wanted to funnel money to a player (without having to be your own bag man), all you'd have to do is keep watching his videos. The number of subscribers helps target you for increased revenue too. AdSense scale runs from $0.50 to $7.5 per 1,000 views. So, this kid has made a minimum of $1,000 and potentially $15,000.

It's pretty inconceivable to me that a UCF kicker has 54,000 subscribers and 2,000,000 views. What kind of volume could a QB from Clemson command if every supporter subscribed and viewed his video(s) on a nightly basis?
 
Just curious - what if a GT prof, while working at GT, came up with some invention that money could be made from?
To my understanding, GT owns pretty much everything you do if you are doing research for them. I think that if you are working on widgets in the GT lab and you come up with a better widget, GT owns the patent, etc. If you are working on widgets and you invent a better baseball bat completely unrelated on your own time at home, you are clear. It can get hairy though.
 
To my understanding, GT owns pretty much everything you do if you are doing research for them. I think that if you are working on widgets in the GT lab and you come up with a better widget, GT owns the patent, etc. If you are working on widgets and you invent a better baseball bat completely unrelated on your own time at home, you are clear. It can get hairy though.

He wasn't curious, he knew what he was asking.

Ask Cyp how much money Tech made from his research. I'm pretty sure he's got Justin Thomas beat.
 
And why, you non-lawyer you, doesn't the NCAA deserve that status? Do you not think its purpose of supporting college athletics serves public ends?

Not only do I not think its purpose serves public ends, I don't think its actual purpose is anything like its stated purpose. The NCAA is comprised almost entirely of institutions whose private ends are served by the actions of the NCAA, and the committees within the NCAA are staffed and chaired almost entirely by individuals whose private ends are served by those institutions, usually to the detriment of the entire barely-represented body of labor upon which the sport relies. The claim that it supports the sport itself, when the vast majority of participants in the sport are represented by a single student athlete on the rules committee, is lip-service. What the organization actually supports is evident by its composition and actions, and it is only a subsection of the sport, which happens to be making billions of dollars annually.
 
Not only do I not think its purpose serves public ends, I don't think its actual purpose is anything like its stated purpose. The NCAA is comprised almost entirely of institutions whose private ends are served by the actions of the NCAA, and the committees within the NCAA are staffed and chaired almost entirely by individuals whose private ends are served by those institutions, usually to the detriment of the entire barely-represented body of labor upon which the sport relies. The claim that it supports the sport itself, when the vast majority of participants in the sport are represented by a single student athlete on the rules committee, is lip-service. What the organization actually supports is evident by its composition and actions, and it is only a subsection of the sport, which happens to be making billions of dollars annually.

 
Not only do I not think its purpose serves public ends, I don't think its actual purpose is anything like its stated purpose. The NCAA is comprised almost entirely of institutions whose private ends are served by the actions of the NCAA, and the committees within the NCAA are staffed and chaired almost entirely by individuals whose private ends are served by those institutions, usually to the detriment of the entire barely-represented body of labor upon which the sport relies. The claim that it supports the sport itself, when the vast majority of participants in the sport are represented by a single student athlete on the rules committee, is lip-service. What the organization actually supports is evident by its composition and actions, and it is only a subsection of the sport, which happens to be making billions of dollars annually.
What are you talking about? You reference the "sport" several times... as if the NCAA supports a sport. The NCAA is composed overwhelmingly of small schools with small budgets, playing a wide variety of sports. 99% of NCAA institutions have small budgets, and coaches that are solidly middle class, and athletes that will never play anything professionally.

If the sport you are talking about is college football, then the NCAA itself makes little money off CFB. Most of those dollars are managed and received by the conferences (or the individual institutions, obviously).

If you have some grander philosophical objection to the idea that people could do anything for less than purely self-interested reasons — after all, the head of the United Way makes a lot of money, and that first-grade teacher accepts money so she's basically prostituting herself, and nuns are just trying to earn their way to heaven, heck, aren't we all? — then we should be having a very different conversation. And you'd be proving why they call theology the 'queen of the sciences.'
 
What are you talking about? You reference the "sport" several times... as if the NCAA supports a sport. The NCAA is composed overwhelmingly of small schools with small budgets, playing a wide variety of sports. 99% of NCAA institutions have small budgets, and coaches that are solidly middle class, and athletes that will never play anything professionally.

If the sport you are talking about is college football, then the NCAA itself makes little money off CFB. Most of those dollars are managed and received by the conferences (or the individual institutions, obviously).

Citing that "the NCAA" itself makes very little money from college football is a disingenuous direction of argument, because as I stated previously, and as you partially acknowledged, the enormous amount of money in college athletics that comes from college football goes into the hands of the representative institutions and individuals who receive it in other ways. It also phrases college football as if it is a tertiary concern for the NCAA, which couldn't be further from the truth. Rule changes impact every member of a nearly $4 billion per year industry and infraction committee actions change financial positions of individual institutions and even whole conferences to the tune of millions of dollars. Every single year. There is tremendous pressure on the NCAA from college football specifically, considering the constant controversy over football recruiting infractions, or lawsuits over this or very similar issues, far outweighing the pressure on it from even the next plausible competitor in basketball. There are more NCAA athletes playing college football than the next three largest collegiate sports combined, and athletic spending at NCAA institutions is weighted towards college football with an insane ratio.

I cite "a" sport, because there is only really one sport paying the huge athletic bills at the most prominent NCAA institutions across the country, and it ain't volleyball. Coincidentally, there's only one sport across the country where a tertiary player on a second tier team could earn a profit by leveraging his likeness indirectly, which is seeing individual players directly subjected to NCAA ultimatums against that activity to prevent the practice from becoming more wide spread; it certainly isn't track and field. A discussion of NCAA behavior with regards to things like "profit" is fundamentally a discussion of college football, for all intents and purposes, and just because there are hangers on in lacrosse and soccer and a myriad other things doesn't succeed in diminishing that. College football is the biggest issue on the docket of the vast majority of interested parties who compose the NCAA, even at the smaller schools with the wide variety of sports; and let's not pretend as though the smaller schools have anything approaching the level of influence in the organization that is wielded by the larger ones.

At the end of the day, the NCAA writes the rules for the sport and enforces them, and at the end of the day, the sport is what makes the athletic world revolve. A world where the NCAA is not principally concerned with the sport is completely imaginary. A world where the member institutions don't act in their own athletic interests, which are dominated by football revenues and expenses, is completely imaginary. The NCAA is not deserving of its non-profit status, it is a cartel whose actual function is enforce "amateurism" on the portion of the sport which forms the basis of the value that is reaped in revenues by the member institutions and their affiliates. This practice should be abolished, and there are plenty of laws on the books today that could be read, very reasonably, to accomplish that feat.

If you have some grander philosophical objection to the idea that people could do anything for less than purely self-interested reasons — after all, the head of the United Way makes a lot of money, and that first-grade teacher accepts money so she's basically prostituting herself, and nuns are just trying to earn their way to heaven, heck, aren't we all? — then we should be having a very different conversation. And you'd be proving why they call theology the 'queen of the sciences.'

Sure, people can do all sorts of things for reasons other than pure self interest. Those things don't generally beget billion dollar media empires that generate insane profits and support multi-million dollar salaries across the country. But hey, maybe this one's the exception and it's all just a big misunderstanding. It's easy to see, how, out of interest for someone other than myself, I could deprive someone of their ability to pursue their own interests while I gleefully pursue profit on the back of their efforts nonetheless. That wouldn't be self-interested behavior at all. Sounds like standard non-profit stuff to me!
 
At the end of the day, the NCAA writes the rules for the sport and enforces them, and at the end of the day, the sport is what makes the athletic world revolve. A world where the NCAA is not principally concerned with the sport is completely imaginary. A world where the member institutions don't act in their own athletic interests, which are dominated by football revenues and expenses, is completely imaginary. The NCAA is not deserving of its non-profit status, it is a cartel whose actual function is enforce "amateurism" on the portion of the sport which forms the basis of the value that is reaped in revenues by the member institutions and their affiliates. This practice should be abolished, and there are plenty of laws on the books today that could be read, very reasonably, to accomplish that feat.

Sure, people can do all sorts of things for reasons other than pure self interest. Those things don't generally beget billion dollar media empires that generate insane profits and support multi-million dollar salaries across the country. But hey, maybe this one's the exception and it's all just a big misunderstanding. It's easy to see, how, out of interest for someone other than myself, I could deprive someone of their ability to pursue their own interests while I gleefully pursue profit on the back of their efforts nonetheless. That wouldn't be self-interested behavior at all. Sounds like standard non-profit stuff to me!

— The largest-budgeted athletic departments comprise a tiny minority of NCAA institutions, most of which don't get money from football but spend money on football... Where's the graft in that? The vast majority of football coaches and administrators are living middle class lives. To let Nick Saban's salary frame the entire debate is to let the tail wag the dog.

— What happens to the money generated by football? It is used to pay for the women's volleyball team to travel to games, to have a ready supply of nutritious food, to have good equipment, to have staff to coach them, etc. Is the women's volleyball team a den of filthy lucre? Most athletic departments spend more on their collegiate athletics than they (ie, football and basketball) generate. What "profit" are you talking about?

— You cloak your argument against the NCAA with the very kind of fake altruism that is your chief complaint about it. How exactly are the athletes being exploited? No one — least of all the NCAA — coerces young men to play football. Talk to them sometime: they play because they like it. Of course they all have hopes and dreams, so what? If they ever stop liking it, they just stop playing (as GT has witnessed first hand). The students can go use their image and their time and talents any way they like... they just can't open a business that depends on their participation in an amateur sport and still claim to participate in an amateur sport.

— Your entire argument seems to boil down to being upset that coaches get paid so much money — as if that fact, which apparently bothers you terribly, somehow disproved the pedagogical benefits of collegiate athletics and the reasons for amateurism. It doesn't. (Here's a thought problem for you: Would you still object to the GTAA getting a paycheck from ESPN to spend on women's volleyball in the name of amateurism, if the coaches were students, too?)

— Finally, lots of charities are big businesses. (Consider big art museums, or hospitals, for example.) That doesn't preclude them from also serving a charitable purpose and benefiting the public. An organization is a non-profit if its profits don't go into the pocket of owners, but are spent (under the govt's watchful eye) for some public benefit. How is this controversial?

I wonder why you are so upset about this topic? Because of you are so virtuous and just hate injustice? Or did an NCAA administrator steal your conference title or something?
 
— The largest-budgeted athletic departments comprise a tiny minority of NCAA institutions, most of which don't get money from football but spend money on football... Where's the graft in that? The vast majority of football coaches and administrators are living middle class lives. To let Nick Saban's salary frame the entire debate is to let the tail wag the dog.

— What happens to the money generated by football? It is used to pay for the women's volleyball team to travel to games, to have a ready supply of nutritious food, to have good equipment, to have staff to coach them, etc. Is the women's volleyball team a den of filthy lucre? Most athletic departments spend more on their collegiate athletics than they (ie, football and basketball) generate. What "profit" are you talking about?

— You cloak your argument against the NCAA with the very kind of fake altruism that is your chief complaint about it. How exactly are the athletes being exploited? No one — least of all the NCAA — coerces young men to play football. Talk to them sometime: they play because they like it. Of course they all have hopes and dreams, so what? If they ever stop liking it, they just stop playing (as GT has witnessed first hand). The students can go use their image and their time and talents any way they like... they just can't open a business that depends on their participation in an amateur sport and still claim to participate in an amateur sport.

— Your entire argument seems to boil down to being upset that coaches get paid so much money — as if that fact, which apparently bothers you terribly, somehow disproved the pedagogical benefits of collegiate athletics and the reasons for amateurism. It doesn't. (Here's a thought problem for you: Would you still object to the GTAA getting a paycheck from ESPN to spend on women's volleyball in the name of amateurism, if the coaches were students, too?)

— Finally, lots of charities are big businesses. (Consider big art museums, or hospitals, for example.) That doesn't preclude them from also serving a charitable purpose and benefiting the public. An organization is a non-profit if its profits don't go into the pocket of owners, but are spent (under the govt's watchful eye) for some public benefit. How is this controversial?

I wonder why you are so upset about this topic? Because of you are so virtuous and just hate injustice? Or did an NCAA administrator steal your conference title or something?

Boy you sure do seem to be confused about my position, and apparently a few other things. Oh well.
 
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