OK I have tepid concerns....but I'm IN...

Oh, I see. So since we couldn't find a coach who is also a GOD and therefore without flaw - there's reason to be gravely concerned.

Jesus Christ, guy - get a grip.

I started making a bullet list to reply to your presumptous, pretentious nonsense but I've already decided that I'm not bothering with the inherently pessimistic crowd this year.
 
MaconGTfan said:
You're not alone. i agree with you on all accounts, but it is what it is. all we can do now is give the guy a chance. But I really don't get the 7 year deal...seems like about 2 years too long. Better be a buyout in there.

It should also be noted that much of his success at Navy was due to watering down their schedule. Their previous coaches/teams played much tougher schedules.
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It's funny how I used to get **** on when I questioned Pauls defense and schedule but now it's being brought out when we hire the guy.

Bottom line is we are an 8 or 9 win team next year. The talent is there and don't say it's not. All people have been saying is stars and stars and stars and now we don't have any players.

I have a funny feeling that these kids when disciplined and coached up will surprise us. Give the guy a chance to get his staff in place and then recruit.

Let's all meet at the spring GAME (I hope) and discuss then.

Mods can we add another forum just for BITCHING?

This post is not aimed at any one individual.
 
refrigeratormover said:
It's funny how I used to get **** on when I questioned Pauls defense and schedule but now it's being brought out when we hire the guy.

Bottom line is we are an 8 or 9 win team next year. The talent is there and don't say it's not. All people have been saying is stars and stars and stars and now we don't have any players.

I have a funny feeling that these kids when disciplined and coached up will surprise us. Give the guy a chance to get his staff in place and then recruit.

Let's all meet at the spring GAME (I hope) and discuss then.

Mods can we add another forum just for BITCHING?

This post is not aimed at any one individual.
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watering the schedule down is true if tech played it...but for navy I don't know I would call it watering down..think about that for a second! If it was so easy...what is army's record again? Lets give him some credit, it is well known he hasn't faced BCS competition week in and week out.

I also think the D issues weren't scheme as much as lack of athletes..and if he keeps most of our staff on that side of the ball I am not too worried.

Next year I think we have athletic talent to win 8. I just don't think we have the experience, and now, the experience in the new system to do it...
 
Seriously guys, when your DBs are 5-7 160 and run 4.8 40s how are you supposed to stop anyone's passing attack? When you have Navy's talent you have to score every top you get the ball and hope for the other team to shoot themselves in the foot at least once.

Delaware does have better talent than Navy. They will have two players drafted this year, minimum, in their QB Flacco and their RB Cuff.
 
If he can just get the team to start playing earlier than 1:15 PM (Eastern), especially for noon kickoffs, then I will be happy.

Happy point number 2: If he'll change out qbs when the one he's using isn't working (because he has actually developed more than one at a time) then I'll be even more happy.
 
knoxjacket said:
Delaware does have better talent than Navy. They will have two players drafted this year, minimum, in their QB Flacco and their RB Cuff.
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Does Duke have talent that is equal to Navy? Does Wake have much better talent than Navy?

And what about Navy's loss to Ball State? They were 7-5, but Navy LOST to them. Does Ball State have better talent?

Georgia has better talent than GT. If the criteria is who has the best talent, we are not going to beat Georgia. Ever.

We need someone who can beat teams that are more talented. That is the old definition of a good coach: he can beat yours with his, and his with yours.

So don't tell me about Navy's lack of talent. Tell me about how Johnson beats teams who have better talent. I just don't see a lot of impressive wins in Navy's 8-4 record. Air Force is the only team with a winning record that Navy beat. I suppose they have no talent either, since they are a military school, and that seems to be the excuse for Navy's lack of talent. If Johnson is coaching above his talent level, I would expect to see some wins over superior teams. They aren't there.

Run oriented offenses don't give you the best chance to beat talented teams who are well coached. That is why Gailey lost to Richt 6 years in a row.

I agree with JD that Johnson will have a more disciplined team than Gailey. I also believe that he will do a better job with fundamentals--something Gailey was not used to coaching in the NFL.

I still believe that this was a very risky hire.
 
jacketup said:
We just hired a coach who:

1. Has no major college coaching experience, even as an assistant. He has the most experiece and success of any coach that we had a realistic shot of landing.

2. Coached the team that was ranked dead last in Div 1-A is passing offense, and by a wide margin. Is a concern but he'll have more talent to work with and he says that he'll mold his offense to the available talent.

3. Coached the 99th ranked team in total defense. Already covered. Let's wait and see how the defensive staff comes together before we crap on him.

4. Lost to a Div 1-AA team this year. Again, already discussed. Very likely a more talented D1-AA team. There are other negatives to focus on - this one doesn't concern me in the least.

5. Barely beat Duke, and was crushed by WF. So. Beat ND, a team infinitely more talented than Navy.

6. Runs an offense that no NFL caliber talent will want to play in. Very much a concern - if you had paid attention to my posts prior to the official hire, it was (and still is) a concern to me. But when he says he'll adjust to the available talent, I'll take him at his word.

7. Was crammed down the throat of our AD, which will have future repercussions. This is hearsay. It's also water under the bridge.
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Quite frankly, it sounds like you're just making some of that up just so you can have a list. The 2 biggest concerns to me (and I'm not gold-colored glasses on this hire - just go back and read my posts since the rumors started up. Actually, even before that - I've debated with BOR about Paul Johnson throughout the season):

1) style of offense - can we maintain the same level of recruiting in his offense? I think it will work as long as he steers it more toward the spread option than the triple option. I do like the triple option as a diversion (like how Fridge used it) but I don't like it as a primary offense.

2) defensive staff. Should become clear over the next couple of weeks.
 
Anyone doubting Delaware needs to watch ESPN tonight, they are playing to get into the naitonal championship in Division I FCS. Appalacian State is already locked to get in the final game.
 
ContactBuzz said:
Quite frankly, it sounds like you're just making some of that up just so you can have a list.
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Making stuff up? Tell me which of points 1-5 is "made up"? Look at Johnson's resume and Navy's record. Each point is objective fact.

You agree with point 6.

Point 7 is true, but you don't have to believe it. I know this to be true from 3 unrelated sources, 2 of whom I would classify as impeccable and one as reliable. However, I don't expect you to accept my sources. BUT, look at Radakovich's announced criteria after the Gailey firing and see if Johnson fits it. Then make your own decision.

I'm just presenting facts. If people have contrary facts, let them present them. I would like to be persuaded. However, most of what I am seeing is emotion and opinion.
 
jacketup said:
Does Duke have talent that is equal to Navy? Does Wake have much better talent than Navy?

And what about Navy's loss to Ball State? They were 7-5, but Navy LOST to them. Does Ball State have better talent?

Georgia has better talent than GT. If the criteria is who has the best talent, we are not going to beat Georgia. Ever.

We need someone who can beat teams that are more talented. That is the old definition of a good coach: he can beat yours with his, and his with yours.

So don't tell me about Navy's lack of talent. Tell me about how Johnson beats teams who have better talent. I just don't see a lot of impressive wins in Navy's 8-4 record. Air Force is the only team with a winning record that Navy beat. I suppose they have no talent either, since they are a military school, and that seems to be the excuse for Navy's lack of talent. If Johnson is coaching above his talent level, I would expect to see some wins over superior teams. They aren't there.

Run oriented offenses don't give you the best chance to beat talented teams who are well coached. That is why Gailey lost to Richt 6 years in a row.

I agree with JD that Johnson will have a more disciplined team than Gailey. I also believe that he will do a better job with fundamentals--something Gailey was not used to coaching in the NFL.

I still believe that this was a very risky hire.
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For someone with such a smug attitude you are severely lacking in your understanding of Navy's talent. Army is probably the only I-A team with less talent than Navy. At least the top quarter of I-AA programs have better talent than Navy. Look at their players sizes on their roster. No height, no weight, no speed.

Duke and Wake have EXPONENTIALLY more talent than Navy. Going back to 2002 on scout Navy has never had even a three star player. Their signees are either: unlisted, unrated, or the courtesy two stars.
 
jacketup said:
Making stuff up? Tell me which of points 1-5 is "made up"? Look at Johnson's resume and Navy's record. Each point is objective fact.

You agree with point 6.

Point 7 is true, but you don't have to believe it. I know this to be true from 3 unrelated sources, 2 of whom I would classify as impeccable and one as reliable. However, I don't expect you to accept my sources. BUT, look at Radakovich's announced criteria after the Gailey firing and see if Johnson fits it. Then make your own decision.

I'm just presenting facts. If people have contrary facts, let them present them. I would like to be persuaded. However, most of what I am seeing is emotion and opinion.
Click to expand...


OH! You never said your sources were impeccable and reliable. :rolleyes:

I don't care what (or who) you think you know, but hearsay is not factual evidence.

We all get that our new head coach is not who you would have chosen, but JESUS H CHRIST do you have to act like a GD know-it-all everytime you start to type? Whether or not you continue to pout and cry like a petulent little child that didn't get the sucker he wanted, Paul Johnson is our head coach. Get over it, or at least find some other way to vent your anger.
 
JacketUP,
If you are already up at arms, why don't you take a few years off? Seriously, your blood pressure must be sky high. Given that you made a list that long, some of which is complete hearsay/internet rumor (see 7), I'm fairly convinced you are the type of fan who is convinced that they know more about football than the AD and when the AD makes a decision they don't agree with, comes up with a conspiracy theory to maintain consistency.

If hiring PJ bothers you this much, write DRad. Make sure he knows you are the type of fan who already knows the success of a hire less than 24 hours into the hire. I'm sure he'll bring you on board to inform all of his future decisions.
 
jacketup, you do realize that we didn't bring PJ in here for his defense, right? We already have a good defense.

We needed someone to come in with an ability to score points. I'll say it again...WE ALREADY HAVE A GOOD DEFENSE.

Sometimes LESS is MORE when trying to analyze this hire. Its simple really if you get your head out of stat books and all the blah blahing.
 
ThomastonJacket said:
The record is one thing, but I'll be looking at how well we compete every week. The records that Chan had aren't what had me so upset. It was how awful an unprepared we would look some Saturdays
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Thomaston, I just wanted to jump on board with your comments! I couldn't agree more.
 
33jacket said:
possibly. But outside maybe the top 10 programs in the country; which fanbase isn't divided?

I mean seriously. Think about it. Every program outside Pete Carrol, Urban, Tressel, Richt, Rodriguez, Beamer, Mack Brown(only until he won an NC), and a few others...has a fanbase that wants to fire their coach, wants to keep their coach and loves him, or is just in the middle.
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I listen to 680 quite a bit when I'm in the car and let me tell you that there was a fair percentage of UGA fans calling in earlier in the year wanting to throw Bobo and Richt under the bus. Eventually Buck Belue would just stop giving them the time of day and say "are ya crazy?"

My point is that I totally agree with you and am adding that even Richt gets heat when he isn't winning every single week.
 
jacketup said:
Did you watch the tape of Duke scoring 43 this year on Navy? Wake scoring 44 on Navy?
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No argument that Navy's defense was pretty porous this year. But did you watch the tape of them beating Pitt 48-45 in 2OT? That's the same Pitt team that beat WVU last week? And don't kid yourself into thinking that that game was simply because Pat White was out. Pitt was stuffing the WVU offense before White went out.

Also let's go back one year to 2006 when Navy had a bit better defense:

Lost by ONE to BC in the Meineke bowl only giving up 25 (I say only because that isn't bad considering they had Matt Ryan), only gave up 13 to Duke, 17 to Air Force, 17 to UConn? Now, for the sake of full disclosure they did have some other games in which they gave up tons of points such as 34 and 38 respectively to Rutgers and Notre Dame (who were both pretty good last year).

The point is that his teams win games and that's even without a top defense. If you give PJ athletes who are even just "OK" then he's going to produce lots of points. Now give him some excellent athletes on offense and tremendous athletes on defense (with a good defensive coaching staff) and it looks like a very complete team.
 
jacketup said:
Making stuff up? Tell me which of points 1-5 is "made up"? Look at Johnson's resume and Navy's record. Each point is objective fact.
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"Making stuff up" isn't exactly the right thing to say. It's more like nitpicking. I think you have a couple of legitimate concerns but that's all they are at this point - concerns.
 
jacketup said:
Did you watch the tape of Duke scoring 43 this year on Navy? Wake scoring 44 on Navy?
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did you see the tape of Dook putting 38? on US and uga /VT 51? Navy plays with 1 star players mostly!.

THE KEY will be PJ putting together a DEF but hopefully he will.
 
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