OK I have tepid concerns....but I'm IN...

So don't tell me about Navy's lack of talent. Tell me about how Johnson beats teams who have better talent.
2007- Navy beats Notre Dame. ND's record is horrible, but the fact is they have 10X the talent Navy has.

2006- Navy beats UCONN, loses 25-24 to Boston College in the Car Care Bowl. Apparently Matt Ryan couldn't do much against Navy's defense that day.

2005- Navy beats Duke, Colorado State. Loses by a fieldgoal to both Maryland and Stanford. All 4 teams clearly have more talent than Navy.

2004- destroys Rutgers, beats Vandy. only losses are to Notre Dame and a Tulane team that features future NFL QB JP Losman

2003- Loses by a field goal to Notre Dame. beats Rutgers, Vandy.


Most, if not all, D-1A teams have more talent than Navy, yet somehow Coach PJ finds a way to routinely beat those teams.
 
jacketup, just because you see only negative doesn't mean that you can wrap yourself in the "rational" tag. Rationality means that you see both the good AND the bad, not just one or the other. So since you've posted some negative facts I'll add some positive facts and refute some of your negative facts:

1) I don't agree that he has no experience at the major college coaching level - Navy plays against good teams every year like ND, Rutgers, Maryland, Air Force, Vandy, BC, Texas Tech, Texas Christian, NCSU, Wake Forest, UConn, Northwestern - not all of these teams are good every year but they play in Div IA and play teams from BCS conferences

2) Coached the team that was #8 in the NCAA in scoring offense - 39.9 ppg

3) Coached the team that was #1 in the NCAA in rushing offense at 351.5 ypg, and it wasn't even close (the next closest was almost 54 ypg behind)

4) Went 8-4 this year and is headed to another bowl, tremendous accomplishment considering the level of talent they have

5) I don't buy the "crammed down our AD's throat" thing so I don't give you credit for this being a "fact" - I've heard some sources claim this and others that I consider equally credible say that this is hogwash

6) Runs an offense no NFL caliber talent will want to play in - again I don't believe this to be a fact. I think there are going to be plenty of kids who will want to play in his offense who are top level talent because I don't believe he's going to be so "run dominant" as he has been at Navy. His history going all the way back to GSU shows that he runs a very versatile offense when he has the talent to do so. His offense in the past, when he's had the talent, has resembled closer to what UF (and Utah before that) runs, what WVU runs (and I think most would agree that there's some heavy duty talent on that squad at tailback at least and most would say that Pat White is a pretty good football player even if he isn't going to be an NFL QB - which I'm not saying he isn't going to be, just saying he's not an NFL prototype QB), and others like Oregon (and we know they've certainly got no NFL talent on their squad). I do think you're right though that we aren't likely to get an NFL prototype QB with PJ here. I see more of the kids who are the top athletes in their school who play QB/CB/LB on the football team AND SG/PG/SF on the basketball team AND are excellent baseball players (or some combination of these).

I'm not concerned about our ability to bring in QBs to play or even RBs. I'm more concerned about getting WRs but if UF can do it and Oregon can do it then I don't see why we can't.

7) Took over an 0-11 team (which had lost 70-7 to GT, by the way) which had a losing record to its main rival, the USMA (at the time the series was 49-46-7 in Army's favor) and after 1 season at 2-10 (one of those wins being a drubbing of Army) went 8-4 the next season, crushed Army again (my apologies to those of you in the Army or Army veterans for bringing this up so much but I'm trying to prove a point), and went to its first bowl in 7 years. That's a tremendous accomplishment at the Naval Academy. Oh, they also won the CIC trophy (between the service academies) by beating both AFA and USMA. Next season 9-2, another bowl, another CIC trophy, another win over arch-rival Army. The next season 8-4, another minor bowl, another CIC trophy and win over Army. Last season 9-4, CIC trophy, Meineke Bowl, beat Army. This past season, 8-4, another minor bowl, another CIC trophy, another destruction of Army, a win at Notre Dame to end the longest losing streak of one team to another (granted ND is worse this year than they have been in the recent past).

Now obviously these facts that I've posted are things that disturb your carefully constructed cube into which you've boxed Coach Paul Johnson. None of what I've said is based on a single bit of emotion. I've researched his career and concluded that his teams are going to score points. I'm more concerned about the defense than anything else and I have reason for optimism since we have some good talent on that side of the ball and a possibility of keeping some our defensive staff.

When we look back at this hire a few years from now we may say that it was a brilliant one or we may say that it was a disaster. Right now neither of us knows and we both can present facts that suggest one side or the other. I look at the positive ones and they make me feel he can have success. I look at the negative ones, especially the one about defense and current passing and look at his history and can see how the one about passing currently is mainly because of where he is and that his history says he'll pass with the talent to do so (and he has it here at GT) and I look for ways he can change his defensive history or ways that, when looked at realistically, can produce better results at GT than he had at the Naval Academy.
 
Making stuff up? Tell me which of points 1-5 is "made up"? Look at Johnson's resume and Navy's record. Each point is objective fact.

You agree with point 6.

Point 7 is true, but you don't have to believe it. I know this to be true from 3 unrelated sources, 2 of whom I would classify as impeccable and one as reliable. However, I don't expect you to accept my sources. BUT, look at Radakovich's announced criteria after the Gailey firing and see if Johnson fits it. Then make your ow

I'm just presenting facts. If people have contrary facts, let them present them. I would like to be persuaded. However, most of what I am seeing is emotion and opinion.
The point is jacketup you just want to be unhappy about this. Fine, be unhappy. But there's no reason anyone should try to trade facts with you or try to change your mind because we all realize that isn't going to happen. So just wallow in your misery.
 
The point is jacketup you just want to be unhappy about this. Fine, be unhappy. But there's no reason anyone should try to trade facts with you or try to change your mind because we all realize that isn't going to happen. So just wallow in your misery.


Like I said I'm just presenting facts. Some folks have presented counter facts, which is what I invited, and which I appreciate. An open and honest debate is a good thing.

You, as usual, insult the messenger. You are the most insulting poster on this board. Get some substantive material, please, or remain silent. It seems to be you who is unhappy.
 
Like I said I'm just presenting facts. Some folks have presented counter facts, which is what I invited, and which I appreciate. An open and honest debate is a good thing.

You, as usual, insult the messenger. You are the most insulting poster on this board. Get some substantive material, please, or remain silent. It seems to be you who is unhappy.

jacketup, you come off sounding like the pessimist we can always count on. You were even bragging about your ability to bring the negative vibes earlier.

.....
Now, why am I supposed to happy? Given me some facts. Sorry that I am cannot act on irrational emotion like the rest of you.

But I was operating on facts and not emotion when I stated my doubts about Bennett after the Gator Bowl. That was swimming against the tide. Who was correct?

I also stated that our offense was in trouble after the Samford game, in which we scored 69 points. I caught crap for that too, but who was correct?

I operate on facts, and not emotion like most of the rest of you. Sorry that facts disturb your emotions.

As I said then with regard to Bennett, I hope that the rest of you are right about Johnson and I am wrong. But this is an incredibly risky hire, especially in light of the money and length of contract.

We will know more after he hires his staff and after the first Wednesday in February.

You sound like the guy at the wedding reception trying to predict how soon the divorce will happen. You remind me of an engineering analyst who points out all the reasons the design will fail and offers no solutions, and then gets miffed when management stops listening to anything you have to say. Dude, those thinking GT will whip UGA next year because of this hire are overboard and may have taken a giddy pill; but you sound like you're on a one way trip to Buzzoff land. Is there any realistic candidate for coach you wouldn't have went on a negative rant over?
 
Like I said I'm just presenting facts. Some folks have presented counter facts, which is what I invited, and which I appreciate. An open and honest debate is a good thing.

You, as usual, insult the messenger. You are the most insulting poster on this board. Get some substantive material, please, or remain silent. It seems to be you who is unhappy.


What's the point of your posts? Paul Johnson is the CURRENT Head Coach of GT Football. He wasn't my first choice, but little of that matters now anyhow. The point everyone is trying to make is...We all need to give him a chance. If he fails (we should know in 2-3 years), then DRad will replace him. But he HAS NOT failed yet. Let give him a chance. Maybe you will be pleasantly surprised. Plus, you can always email DRad as to your displeasure and please give him info on how much you donate to the program and ask why you were not consulted. Let us know what he says.
 
Like I said I'm just presenting facts. Some folks have presented counter facts, which is what I invited, and which I appreciate. An open and honest debate is a good thing.

You, as usual, insult the messenger. You are the most insulting poster on this board. Get some substantive material, please, or remain silent. It seems to be you who is unhappy.
Okay, so where's the insult? I simply said your opinion has been stated and it's obvious in every post you've made on the situation. You aren't happy. So pointing that out is an insult?
 
There is one big measureable for the talent level at Navy, and that is size.

Navy is far smaller than any team they playe against except Army. They are literally a DII or lower-D1A sized team.

I can't find a DC for Delaware but it's clear from their roster that they're much bigger than Navy. Here is a two-deep size comparison with a somewhat inferior 1AA team, William and Mary. Navy gives up about 20 pounds per man to this good 1AA team:

OL: W&M 297, Navy 274
DL: W&M 261, Navy 248
LB/S: W&M 217, Navy 199

Note that I used Navy's biggest LB position as DE's for figuring this, to directly compare Navy's 3-4 defense to W&M's 4-3. Navy doesn't have enough big guys to run a 4-3.

This size disparity is also present at all the other positions.
Note that W&M also has a 6'5/250 starting TE, while Navy doesn't use TE's. In that position they have one of two starting slotbacks who are 5-6/168 and 5-8/164. Any big bodies Navy gets have to be linemen.

Navy also has three 5-7 or 5-8 guys in the DB two-deep (one starting), a 5-9/196 starting LB, and the top two centers are both 5-11.

Now I'm no expert but everyone who knows anything about academy football tells me that not only is Navy tiny, they also are slower than upper-D1A level teams.

The results PJ achieved there seem remarkable to me. D1A bottom feeders and the elite D1AA schools have loads of talent and size compared to Navy.
 
Like I said I'm just presenting facts. Some folks have presented counter facts, which is what I invited, and which I appreciate. An open and honest debate is a good thing.

Excellent to hear (that open, honest debate is a good thing). I think that I usually learn the most from conversations and debates with those who share a different point of view than I do. I can respect the opinions of those who think, in this case, that perhaps this wasn't the best choice as our HC.

I'm quite certain that you hope that this was a great hire and that you'll be cheering for the Jackets even if you're very concerned about the ability of our new HC to get the team to the level we all want.
 
Interesting tidbit about Paul Johnson...

...at Georgia Southern he had the Eagles in the national championship game three years in a row (1998, 1999, 2000) winning in 1999 and 2000. In 1999 GSU's opponent was Youngstown State, a Div I-AA powerhouse. The final score was 59-24.

Why is this interesting? Well the guy who coached Youngstown State at the time was none other than Jim Tressel, current head coach at THE Ohio State University.
 
Dude, those thinking GT will whip UGA next year because of this hire are overboard and may have taken a giddy pill; but you sound like you're on a one way trip to Buzzoff land. Is there any realistic candidate for coach you wouldn't have went on a negative rant over?

The good thing is there are only a handful of posters on any of the three boards who are openly pessimistic about PJ's hire (not just mildly against). It's an odd site to see so much optimism over on Bbuzzoff but it's alive and kicking. I think Jacketup is just trying to turn Stingtalk into "the new Buzzoff." As I stated before, the Tech fanbase is as unified as I've ever seen it after this hire, and there's nothing one worthless poster can do about it. Bring on the bowl game then on to Spring practice! I've never liked cold weather anyway. Let's just skip the winter.
 
OL: W&M 297, Navy 274
DL: W&M 261, Navy 248
LB/S: W&M 217, Navy 199

That's a great post GoldenTornado. Interestingly enough Georgia Tech's average weights are:

OL: 300.2
DL: 268.8
LB/S: 215.7

These are crude estimates, sure, but just imagine what PJ could do with the increase in talent.
 
Didn't have the time to read through the rest of the posts, but here's a site with Navy's historical records:

http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/database/navy_database.htm

Let me point out a few things for jacket up:

- Navy went to a bowl 4 times, 4 damn times, in the forty years before PJ.
- Of the Navy coaches since 1965 and before PJ, the best was George Welsh with .544 winning percentage. Other than him, about five other coaches had winning percentages less than .400 and most much less than that.
- Probably stated before, but Duke and Wake have much more talent than Navy. Duke beat Northwestern and scared a good number of ACC teams. And do you have to be reminded that Wake is just one year removed from winning the ACC championship?
- The wins (and very close losses) to higher talent teams are there if you care to look. He's had very close losses against BC last year and Maryland two years ago.
- The schedule was not watered down, at least looking at their last awful year in 2002. They played about the same level of teams the next few years that they played in 2002.
 
That's a great post GoldenTornado. Interestingly enough Georgia Tech's average weights are:

OL: 300.2
DL: 268.8
LB/S: 215.7

These are crude estimates, sure, but just imagine what PJ could do with the increase in talent.

Thanks man. No doubt it will be exciting to see what PJ can do with our talent.

If we run the same spread-option flexbone Johnson has run in his last two stops, at least a lot of the time, then this is my guess on our 2008 backfield DC with their likely 2008 playing weights:

SB -- Roddy Jones (5'9 190), Embry Peeples (5'10 180)
SB -- Jamaal Evans (5'8 195), Tyler Evans (5-8 190)
FB -- Jon Dwyer (6'0 220), Trevor Bray (6'0 240), Richard Watson (6'1 230)
QB -- Josh Nesbitt (6'1 220), Cooper Taylor (6'4 190)

I base Dwyer playing FB on Adrian Peterson playing that position at GSU. Cooper Taylor is a triple-option QB out of Marist and if moved to QB would be a 2nd-generation triple-option QB at GT.

Anyway we are talking about FOUR four-star players in the backfield at the same time, while Johnson has never had ANY at Navy.

Now Jones and Evans are both "mini-backs" by ACC/SEC standards. But they HUGE compared to what Navy has on the field, with superior athletic ability.

They also are more physically mature with more experience, because both of them redshirted while Navy's players don't get to redshirt.

Nesbitt is also much bigger and probably faster than any previous PJ spread-option QB.
 
I'm sure we'll see that formation some but would be shocked if it's our staple. I would expect more of a WVU type of alignment more often than not.
 
We just hired a coach who:

1. Has no major college coaching experience, even as an assistant.

2. Coached the team that was ranked dead last in Div 1-A is passing offense, and by a wide margin.

3. Coached the 99th ranked team in total defense.

4. Lost to a Div 1-AA team this year.

5. Barely beat Duke, and was crushed by WF.

6. Runs an offense that no NFL caliber talent will want to play in.

7. Was crammed down the throat of our AD, which will have future repercussions.

Now, why am I supposed to happy? Given me some facts. Sorry that I am cannot act on irrational emotion like the rest of you.

But I was operating on facts and not emotion when I stated my doubts about Bennett after the Gator Bowl. That was swimming against the tide. Who was correct?

I also stated that our offense was in trouble after the Samford game, in which we scored 69 points. I caught crap for that too, but who was correct?

I operate on facts, and not emotion like most of the rest of you. Sorry that facts disturb your emotions.

As I said then with regard to Bennett, I hope that the rest of you are right about Johnson and I am wrong. But this is an incredibly risky hire, especially in light of the money and length of contract.

We will know more after he hires his staff and after the first Wednesday in February.
:laugher: Wow man, you're a complete jackass.
 
More of a jackass than the guy who dug up a thread that was started more than a year ago just to call one particular guy a jackass?
Let him have his fun.


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