Option out of Pistol or Shotgun

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Lion82

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I’m surprised CPJ has not made adjustments to the offense when faced with an unblockable front like Clemson’s. We all like to see the offense in it’s purest form but sometimes you have to adapt.

Clemson was forcing the read at the mesh quicker than Marshall could process it. Running some pistol or shotgun when the offense line is getting dominated might make the read easier. When the mesh point is disrupted the whole offense gets thrown out of rhythm. At worst it would make the defense adjust to a different look. Clemson was so locked in last night it was ridiculous.

Navy does this at times and did it most of the game this year vs Air Force (not comparing AF to Clemson)

I know CPJ scrapped the shotgun package after Vad Lee but Vad was not a good fit. You just can’t keep blaming the lack of offensive production in games like this on “turning guys loose” and missed reads.

It might make no difference but going back to Iowa in year 1 the offense often looks out of sync vs a really good front.
 
I understand most don't move the ball against Clemson regardless of what they run.
I just don't think you go into a game knowing your base scheme has no chance to function. At least try blocking the back side better.
 
southendzoneBEE said:
All that would've done vs. Clemson is give them an extra two yards behind the line to make the tackle
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exactly. I've watched enough Georgia Southern this year to see what happens when you try to run something resembling the option out of pistol or gun and your line springs more leaks than the Bismarck. It ain't pretty.
 
There were times during the game when I thought it might help... but then I remembered the Clemson-Auburn game.

Check out that box score. Running their read option offense from the gun certainly didn't help them.

42 carries for 38 yards Even if you take away the 11 sacks and their QB run stats, they still ran for like 25 carries and 70 yds. Not super effective.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=400933843
 
The O line wasn't great. They played well enough to come away with a win if Marshall wasn't missing so many reads. Dude was flat out terrible. He thought he could out quick Clemson's D like he has done to most of the other teams we have played this year.
 
I think that is most of the problem. The reads were obviously bad. QB looked scared to do anything but hold the ball. He wasn't expecting Clemson's speed
 
OP has some decent points, but it's not going to happen. CPJ is an outstanding in game coach, and a lot of that is predicated on the fact that he knows every intimate detail of how his offense runs, and his team is extremely well-versed at executing the plays. If we added a shotgun package, it would take a tremendous amount of practice to be able to execute it with anywhere near the precision we do our base package. The footwork, timing, mesh points, and reads are completely different. And most teams zone block for shotgun option. That means blocking would be totally different as well. There is no doubt that spending that time on shotgun would detract from how well we run our normal plays simply due to having less time to practice them.

Paul Johnson IS this offense, for what it's worth. Our offense is really good most of the time - is it really worth scrapping that and taking a big risk because we're unable to score on elite defenses that completely overmatch us physically? Especially since we already tried it once and it was an unmitigated disaster?
 
Lion82 said:
I’m surprised CPJ has not made adjustments to the offense when faced with an unblockable front like Clemson’s. We all like to see the offense in it’s purest form but sometimes you have to adapt.

Clemson was forcing the read at the mesh quicker than Marshall could process it. Running some pistol or shotgun when the offense line is getting dominated might make the read easier. When the mesh point is disrupted the whole offense gets thrown out of rhythm. At worst it would make the defense adjust to a different look. Clemson was so locked in last night it was ridiculous.

Navy does this at times and did it most of the game this year vs Air Force (not comparing AF to Clemson)

I know CPJ scrapped the shotgun package after Vad Lee but Vad was not a good fit. You just can’t keep blaming the lack of offensive production in games like this on “turning guys loose” and missed reads.

It might make no difference but going back to Iowa in year 1 the offense often looks out of sync vs a really good front.
Click to expand...

w18tb.jpg
 
TampaBayJacket said:
Having said that, plays were there against Clemson if our QB wasn't deer in headlights.
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A lot of people (including CPJ) are saying this. I would like to understand some of those 'missed read' plays in depth. @Longestdays can you cue something up for us ignorants?

EDIT: also, why was TQM missing the reads on the Clemson D-line but not in the other games? Is that because they are so fast they can mask who they're taking? I don't even understand *how* you miss a read like this...?

These are genuine questions.
 
18in32 said:
A lot of people (including CPJ) are saying this. I would like to understand some of those 'missed read' plays in depth. @Longestdays can you cue something up for us ignorants?

EDIT: also, why was TQM missing the reads on the Clemson D-line but not in the other games? Is that because they are so fast they can mask who they're taking? I don't even understand *how* you miss a read like this...?

These are genuine questions.
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I haven't rewatched the game yet, but I'm assuming it's two reasons:
1) The defense was forcing him to make his reads quicker by attacking the mesh point.
2) He was scared. It's pretty easy for us fans to ignore the physical toll, but TM was getting his ass beat pretty much every play, and nothing was working. "Deer in the headlights" is a pretty good description, I think.
 
Can someone explain why Sewak still has a job?

I’ll hang up and listen.
 
johncu said:
OP has some decent points, but it's not going to happen. CPJ is an outstanding in game coach, and a lot of that is predicated on the fact that he knows every intimate detail of how his offense runs, and his team is extremely well-versed at executing the plays. If we added a shotgun package, it would take a tremendous amount of practice to be able to execute it with anywhere near the precision we do our base package. The footwork, timing, mesh points, and reads are completely different. And most teams zone block for shotgun option. That means blocking would be totally different as well. There is no doubt that spending that time on shotgun would detract from how well we run our normal plays simply due to having less time to practice them.

Paul Johnson IS this offense, for what it's worth. Our offense is really good most of the time - is it really worth scrapping that and taking a big risk because we're unable to score on elite defenses that completely overmatch us physically? Especially since we already tried it once and it was an unmitigated disaster?
Click to expand...
Post of the year nominee.
 
18in32 said:
A lot of people (including CPJ) are saying this. I would like to understand some of those 'missed read' plays in depth. @Longestdays can you cue something up for us ignorants?.
Click to expand...

Go back and watch the game, Herbstreit broke it down pretty succinctly with video of a half dozen plays during the 4th quarter.

18in32 said:
EDIT: also, why was TQM missing the reads on the Clemson D-line but not in the other games? Is that because they are so fast they can mask who they're taking? I don't even understand *how* you miss a read like this...?

These are genuine questions.
Click to expand...

As for why he was missing them there is probably more than one reason. Inexperience versus Clemson type size and speed was probably one reason, it didn't look like Clemson was doing anything other teams haven't done in the past.
 
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