Reggie's optimal use...

We seem to be going in circles.

When your QB is not in the top 100 and he throws more int than td, but your team is 7-4 against one of the top 2 toughest schedules in the nation, you cannot have bad coaching and bad recruiting.

Do any of yall dispute that?

So we fall into one of three camps.
#1 Recruiting is the problem: I watch the games and I don't see it. We have size and speed. It should be tweaked. We underrecruited OL in 2003-2004. We whiffed on some OL guys the last few years therefore our O-Line is young and light but they actually look like Chan hit some home runs with 'sleepers'. The real weakness right now on ST, other than #3 below, is kicking. If Bell hadn't collapsed, and Belcher transfer, the season would be entirely different. #56 on PR is really average. And #100+ on KOs has something to do with never getting touchbacks and low, short kicks etc. IMHO.

#2. Coaching is the problem: We can blame the kicking woes on the ST coach. Maybe it's fair and maybe not. We can blame the lack of progress at QB on Coaching. Obviously the Defensive Coaching isn't the problem. And it could be argued based on analyzing the stats wrt to the opponents that the Offense did pretty good. The one glaring issue appears to be red zone production. That could be coaching or it could be...

#3 The QB is the problem: I fall into this camp. I don't think a team can enter elite status without an above average QB. I cannot, with a clear consience, second guess what is happening here. I certainly don't agree that we have better QBs playing other positions. I would've liked to seen more of Bennett in the VT game. With Ball ill and the game out of reach, it wouldn't have created much controversy and we might have found out that Bennett is a gamer. But I feel confident that Chan knows better than message boarders who gives us the best chance to win.

The problem with #1 and #2, is that we have to be adequate to be 7-4. If our talent was as bad as Rivals says (below Duke and Wake) we couldn't win with Joe Montana and Vince Lombardi. If our coach was as bad as the Buzzoffers say, we wouldn't go 7-4 with the 1963 Packers. But the QB stats speak for themselves IMHO.

The good news IMHO, is that rumors of GTs demise have been debunked. Despite what Rivals says, we do have adequate talent. Despite what Buzzoff says, we do have an adequate coach. And in 2007 at the latest, we will have a change at QB, for better or worse.
 
Re: the key stats

[ QUOTE ]
That is terrible unless you run the wishbone/ or related and your QB is basically a runner and a threat to score from 50 ( which RB isn't)

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think he isn't?
 
Re: We seem to be going in circles.

GTCrew, pretty much agree with everything you said.

I think it's obvious to everyone that Reggie has limitations that hold us back on what we try to do. It's not his fault, it is what it is and I think it's also obvious that he's worked hard to limit his mistakes. I think he has clearly improved, but he's about at his limit. While some may want us to go to more of an option type running attack, I don't think the rest of the team is structured to win that way. So what the coaching staff is doing is cobbling together a plan that gives us a chance.

I think we'll see offensive improvement next year as the OL continues to mature. What we need most of all though is for Chan and his offensive coaches to find some wrinkles to get the ball in the end zone. We need to find some big plays somewhere, and by that I don't just mean CJ on a fly pattern. We have to stretch the field more so that our running game and short passes can be more effective while hitting the big one occassionally.

I also agree on our talent. We may not have a lot of guys Rivals thinks are 4 stars, but we have a bunch of kids who can play. We're fine talent wise. We simply need to stop hurting ourselves.
 
Re: We seem to be going in circles.

they can't stretch the field if the QB does not stay in the pocket. By design, Reggie shrinks the field every time he races out of the pocket and to the side lines looking to pass or throw. I talked to one of the D-backs at VT. He confirms that they just salivate when they think about Reggie's style of play because in his words "we can collapes in on him..just like in basketball when the guard drives to the hoop"

Don't get bme wrong..This ain't Reggie's fault. Its the coaches fault. Further more you don't need a great QB to fulfill this teams needs. You just need one that stays in the pocket when he is supoosed to.. You guys need to stop thinking that it takes a great athlete to be a great QB. QB's are made by the programs and the play calling. Very seldom is it visa versa.
 
Who said it takes a great athlete to be a great QB

?

Who?

I really don't think you listen to others, and I disagree with many of your conclusions and I have facts. Who here said coaching is irrelevant wrt QBs. Who here said that a good scheme can't help cover for an average QB. Those are beside the point.

A good scheme maximizes the QBs production. It is possible that we are maximizing Ball's potential with our offensive scheme. I certainly see no reason to believe otherwise.

As you know, Fridge is a genius, and proved his versatility to me when Goose replaced Hamilton and we hardly skipped a beat. How did he do this year without a good QB? It ain't just scheme or coaching, or Fridge would never fail.

When you say [ QUOTE ]
This ain't Reggie's fault. Its the coaches fault

[/ QUOTE ] is impossible for me to fully agree with. Part of this IS Reggie's fault. Part of this IS excecution. Reggie throws the sideline routes ten feet over Calvin's head, not Chan. Reggie is the one who struggles to lead the receivers. Coach appears to have changed the playbook to emphasize patterns where the receiver is mostly 'set'. IMHO we suffer in YAC because of this. (Of course on the bright side erratic throws allow CJ to look even better.)

Sure, Reggie shrinks the field, but great QBs do not. Hamilton hit streaking WR when he rolled out all the time. I brought it up earlier that part of Reggie's problem is he doesn't seem to be looking to pass once he abandons the pocket. Better QBs like Hagans or Vick prevent full out assault by dumping the ball off to the TE or RB or go deep IN BOUNDS so the DBs and safeties (and even LBs) can't break to stop the run until the QB crosses the line.

That isn't the case with Reggie and Kudos to the VT coaches and players for realizing this. But if VT gets a chance to try that with Young at Texas, he will eat them alive.

I disagree with your last sentence. Teams with good offenses have good QBs. I'll pull some stats to show you later.
 
One more thing about collapsing the field.

I made a point of looking for PJ when Ball would throw it away. He was consistently running for the opposite sideline looking for the cross field pass. He was consistently wide open. Do you ever recall Reggie making this pass? I'll bet PJ is doing what he was coached to do. If we threw back across the field once or twice it would open the field up. I'll bet Ball was told that in film sessions. But I don't know for sure.
 
Re: One more thing about collapsing the field.

Backside receivers were open all night long. However, RB does not have the arm strength or accuracy to throw against the grain without giving up a pick 6 or two. Not many qbs do.

I would imagine that this has been drilled into RB by the coaches.
 
Then why does PJ break every time?

The throw is around 35-40 yards and PJ has 10 yards of space on the DE/DT's. Look to see if anyone stayed home and then let her rip.
 
Re: Then why does PJ break every time?

Crew you might want to lay most of the blame on Ball..He deserves most of the blame but you have to say there is a coaching problem with this position. Even if Ball is "maxing" his ability (i dont believe he is btw) you have to blame Gailey for not developing anyone that can play QB. Thats pretty much his job. If he doesnt have someone that can get it done on the field then why isnt anyone else even remotely ready to take a snap...
 
Now we are getting somewhere.

Let me set the table...

Ball barely beats out incumbent his frosh year. Incumbent has no chance of taking the team to the next level and under the circumstances if close you always play the guy with more upside. Backups probably even less so or they wouldn't be backing up. Plays OK for a frosh. Everyone expects a big jump in the offseason which is 'normal'. Recruiting a good QB seems unnecessary (and a great one would be impossible anyway as few would want to have only one year to play). Chan takes a sleeper with potential.

Soph year Reggie does not make jump. Possibly regresses, but good enough to not waste the sleeper's redshirt. Recruiting QB is still tough with a two year Soph starter. Chan lands a huge prospect anyway.

Junior year Reggie is still about the same, but some major flaws, notably taking huge sacks, are reduced. Backup QB plays adequate when needed, but not good enough to create a QB controversy. Team playing just good enough to not overhaul, and a QB change has to be considered an overhaul. True freshman, while probably the future at GT, would be an even more radical change. No real upside to burning his redshirt. Might win some Reggie lost. Just as likely to lose some singlehandedly. That's what true frosh QBs are prone to do.

So now we have a three year starter who is statistically 10th in a 12 team league. I agree that it isn't all his fault. I don't know that he is maxed out. But he isn't improving statistically.

We have a sleeper who has progressed enough to beat a good UConn team. If we had played him all year we might have won 5-6 and we would be primed for 2006 IMHO. Instead we won seven, so perhaps we traded upside in 2006 for wins in 2005.

The true Frosh is an option now as well.

I would've probably done the same thing as Chan so far wrt QB and recruiting, but feel free to second guess the past.

2006 should see better QB play, but it could come down to
#1 Reggie maxing out at the current level and
#2 Bennett being too much of a sleeper to make into an ACC caliber QB (it happens) and
#3 Garner being too raw to throw to the wolves as a frosh.
Granted that is a lot of assumptions, but they are not all that farfetched. The upside is that if just one is not true, we will be very, very good in 2006. If 2007 doesn't have a good Offense, we need to consider some major staff changes.

The one thing to note is how Fridge is having the same problems and I consider him one of the top QB coaches around. And he has had many more quality QBs to try out than Chan IMHO.
 
Re: Now we are getting somewhere.

Just maybe, Chan wanted to keep his job this year under the spotlight of the Braine demand for improvement.
Now that he has the extension, maybe CG will do something different with the qb situation for '06. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: Then why does PJ break every time?

I gotta agree with TX 100%..This is a coaching debacle. If Reggie is doing things on the field that the coaches don't want then the first ones on Reggie but the second one and all after are on the Coach...thats management 101. The lack of QB development...its alomost as if it were a "in your face" display on CCG part for, at the very least, not getting Bennett on the field for a more few plays just to give the kid a variety of tests. IE. The VT Game..there was no reason at all to play Reggie after the 1st set of plays in the 3rd Q. or not having Bennett throw a few more times in a few other games... instead it was nothing or fruitless "hand-off" clinics.
 
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