Rules question on 2 point conversion

[andrew]

I have a hypothetical rules question. I know the pass hit the ground, but say he actually caught it and the ref incorrectly called it incomplete. The play is reviewed and they determine it to be a completion, but once the ref blew his whistle the play is dead so even if we got into the endzone it wouldn't have counted.

What happens? Do we retry the conversion? Do we just lose? I'm pretty sure during a regular play we would get the ball where it was caught and it's tough luck about any possible yards after the catch, but that would obviously be tough to swallow on a two point conversion.

 

[The Jacket]

To the best of my knowledge, that would be the game. That's the main reason they encourage refs not to rush to blowing the whistle in those circumstances. They were more than patient and forgiving when a Tennessee receiver fell on top of a pass 30 seconds after it hit the turf, yet on the goal line with the game on the line, the dude blew the whistle as we broke the huddle. It doesn't matter, bot those two things really made me angry.

 

[msm5]

I really wish they'd allow refs to let plays like that (or fumbles) play out, and they they could say the call on the field is incomplete (or no fumble) and need indisputable evidence to overturn

 

[andrew]

I really wish they'd allow refs to let plays like that (or fumbles) play out, and they they could say the call on the field is incomplete (or no fumble) and need indisputable evidence to overturn

I see where you're coming from but that could be pretty brutal to score the TD and then they tell you that it actually never happened. It's a tough problem.

The Jacket, that's how I understand it too, but wasn't sure if there was an exception for two point conversions.

 

[EastboundJacket]

You're right, I was worried about that before I realized it actually hit the ground. I thought they'd blown it dead when it wasn't and wouldn't be able to review it.

 

[The Jacket]

I really wish they'd allow refs to let plays like that (or fumbles) play out, and they they could say the call on the field is incomplete (or no fumble) and need indisputable evidence to overturn

That's what they're supposed to do, that's what they're instructed to do. That's what they do, most of the time. As I said in my first post, that's what they did when Tennessee's receiver found a ball lying on the ground and grabbed it. But on that last play, the ref seemed like he just wanted to get the öööö out of there. Nothing we did would have mattered, even if we had completed it, because he blew it dead immediately. Obviously I don't blame the loss on that, of all things, but it really does make me angry.

 

[The Jacket]

I see where you're coming from but that could be pretty brutal to score the TD and then they tell you that it actually never happened. It's a tough problem.

The Jacket, that's how I understand it too, but wasn't sure if there was an exception for two point conversions.

Not that I'm aware of. There should be, but the NCAA isn't going to address something until it has already crushed someone's heart into powder, railed it, and ööööed a transvestite in a crowded, filthy bathroom.

 

[msm5]

That's what they're supposed to do, that's what they're instructed to do. That's what they do, most of the time. As I said in my first post, that's what they did when Tennessee's receiver found a ball lying on the ground and grabbed it. But on that last play, the ref seemed like he just wanted to get the öööö out of there. Nothing we did would have mattered, even if we had completed it, because he blew it dead immediately. Obviously I don't blame the loss on that, of all things, but it really does make me angry.

I've never seen them let a fumble play out and then say that the ruling on the field was runner was down and review the play. What I think they're instructed to do is give the benefit of the doubt to a fumble, and then they figure it will be overturned if he was down. But that puts the indisputable evidence burden on the "fumbling" team, when the ref might have felt live he was down, if that makes sense.

 

[The Jacket]

I've never seen them let a fumble play out and then say that the ruling on the field was runner was down and review the play. What I think they're instructed to do is give the benefit of the doubt to a fumble, and then they figure it will be overturned if he was down. But that puts the indisputable evidence burden on the "fumbling" team, when the ref might have felt live he was down, if that makes sense.

Oooh, my bad, I misread your post. I thought you were referring to exactly what you just said in this post.

 

[BuzzLaw]

That's what they're supposed to do, that's what they're instructed to do. That's what they do, most of the time. As I said in my first post, that's what they did when Tennessee's receiver found a ball lying on the ground and grabbed it. But on that last play, the ref seemed like he just wanted to get the öööö out of there. Nothing we did would have mattered, even if we had completed it, because he blew it dead immediately. Obviously I don't blame the loss on that, of all things, but it really does make me angry.

I like how the refs waited about 5 minutes to call a touchdown when the only part of the quarterback not in the end zone was his ankle.

 

[GT98]

I like how the refs waited about 5 minutes to call a touchdown when the only part of the quarterback not in the end zone was his ankle.

Not too mention it looked like Marshall had scored on 2nd down earlier on in the game. Same back judge ruled the bounce off the ground catch for UT good that was overturned and did nothing when Jeune was turned by the DB on Jordan's deep pass attempt.

TBF, the refs missed what looked like a clip on GT on the drive before the end of regulation FG debacle.

If anything, I think that college refs are too slow with the whistle--especially on running plays when a guy is clearly stopped/down. Seems like more injury risk when you allow defenders to jump in after the play should have been blown dead.

 

[LagrangeJacket]

I have a hypothetical rules question. I know the pass hit the ground, but say he actually caught it and the ref incorrectly called it incomplete. The play is reviewed and they determine it to be a completion, but once the ref blew his whistle the play is dead so even if we got into the endzone it wouldn't have counted.

What happens? Do we retry the conversion? Do we just lose? I'm pretty sure during a regular play we would get the ball where it was caught and it's tough luck about any possible yards after the catch, but that would obviously be tough to swallow on a two point conversion.

If it was an inadvertent whistle (the official blowing the ball dead before it was dead by rule), the down would've been replayed.

 

[The Jacket]

I like how the refs waited about 5 minutes to call a touchdown when the only part of the quarterback not in the end zone was his ankle.

Not too mention it looked like Marshall had scored on 2nd down earlier on in the game. Same back judge ruled the bounce off the ground catch for UT good that was overturned and did nothing when Jeune was turned by the DB on Jordan's deep pass attempt.

TBF, the refs missed what looked like a clip on GT on the drive before the end of regulation FG debacle.

If anything, I think that college refs are too slow with the whistle--especially on running plays when a guy is clearly stopped/down. Seems like more injury risk when you allow defenders to jump in after the play should have been blown dead.

Good posts, I noticed those as well, but mentioning poor officiating has become synonymous with whining about it. They didn't cost us the game, but they did their jobs poorly, I thought. I guess that comes with the B1G though.

 

[The Jacket]

If it was an inadvertent whistle (the official blowing the ball dead before it was dead by rule), the down would've been replayed.

I think there's zero chance he would have said it was accidental, in that scenario. No referee has ever demonstrated to me that they care more about the right call than they care about not looking stupid. See Ron Cherry blowing dead a fake spike/potential TD by Reginald Ball.

 

[andrew]

If it was an inadvertent whistle (the official blowing the ball dead before it was dead by rule), the down would've been replayed.

I think an inadvertent whistle is when the ref blows the play dead by mistake. In this (hypothetical) case he didn't do it by mistake, he was just wrong, so I don't think it would apply.

It would be tough to blow the whistle for an incomplete pass, go review it, see it was complete, and say, "Oh yeah, actually, I thought it was complete at the time too and just blew my whistle inadvertently."

 

[OmnipoTech]

I was at the game so what they replayed was limited and very late (like 2 minutes after the whistle was blown), and I know the ball hit the ground, but was it thrown forward? Best I could tell it went sideways or slightly backwards, so hitting the ground would have been irrelevant, but I don't think Benson got it across the plane before he went down either.

 

[grantfield82]

It may have been a lateral but since Benson didn't get in it is irrelevant. I would be royally pissed if Benson had gotten in and they didn't at least review it

 

[msm5]

I was at the game so what they replayed was limited and very late (like 2 minutes after the whistle was blown), and I know the ball hit the ground, but was it thrown forward? Best I could tell it went sideways or slightly backwards, so hitting the ground would have been irrelevant, but I don't think Benson got it across the plane before he went down either.

I was at the game as well and thought it might have been a lateral (and still think they should have reviewed it instead of running off the field). But I watched the replay quite a few times and I think it did go slightly forward. And yes, Benson was just short.

 

[beej67]

Since 2006 UGA im not a fan of "letting it play out."

 

[QuadF]

I didn't think the reffing was too bad. Most games will have some mistakes, and this one didn't have a whole lot to my eye. The most egregious was that they blew this play early, and while it didn't matter, I think that says something.